Prop 19 Explained: Common Questions and Misperceptions

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tc1

Well-Known Member
Prop 19 Explained: Common Questions and Misperceptions


Prop 19 will override Prop 215 legislation


This is false. Prop 215 is legislation for the medical use of marijuana. Prop 19 is legislation for the recreational use of marijuana. The courts have ruled that laws can not be implied to affect other pieces of legislation. Laws meant to supersede current laws MUST be expressed. Not only does Prop 19 not express the changing of ANY Prop 215 sections but it has exemptions for Prop 215 patients. If Prop 19 was meant to supersede Prop 215, there would be no need to add exemptions.

You can already grow and use marijuana legally

People with ailments and able to get a doctors recommendation are allowed to use and cultivate legally under California law. Everyone else is still subject to prosecution.
Asking healthy people to lie and get a prop 215 recommendation only fuels the fire of people who claim "medical marijuana is just a scam for people who want to get high". Abuse of the medical marijuana program can have negative consequences to those who desperately need medicinal marijuana and is a slap in the face to many of them. The bottom line is no one should go to jail for marijuana, regardless if they have a medical condition or not. Marijuana wont be legalized until ALL of age adults can cultivate and use marijuana.

You can only have a 5x5 grow area

Prop 19 states that a grow area can be no bigger than 25 square feet. You're dimensions can be a combination of any number provided they stay within the 25sqft maximum. Prop 19 also allows local cities to increase the size of grow areas if they feel it appropriate to do so.

You can only have 1 ounce of marijuana at any one time

Prop 19 allows the possession of 1 ounce on your person. This means you will not be able to walk down the street with more than an ounce at a time. Marijuana in your home is measured by the 25 square footage rule and not by weight as written in Section 11304 part d(iv). Prop 19 also allows local cities to increase the amount of possession if they feel appropriate to do so.

I can't smoke in the same house with a minor

Prop 19 states "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present." is unlawful.
While this can be debated to no end, the logical explanation is that you are not allowed to expose minors to second hand smoke. There are some who say that "space" is defined as "the same home". Prop 19 does no define "space" as "same home" and to draw to that conclusion is false. Jumping from "space" to "same home" is no different than jumping from "space" to "same planet". Sensible logic is needed to feel comfortable with this wording.

Prop 19 taxes the sale of marijuana


Prop 19 does not contain any specific commercial regulation and tax laws. It simply states cities have the right to commercially sell recreational marijuana and tax it. It is up to each and every city to decide whether they want to commercially sell marijuana and if so, how much (if any) taxes they wish to place on it. One of the biggest selling points on legalizing marijuana has always been the ability to tax it, so it should be no surprise that Prop 19 gives cities the option of doing so.

Prop 19 will put people out of business and hurt the economy

Prop 19 allows cities the option to commercially grow and sell marijuana. This allows people who currently grow and/or sell marijuana illegally the ability to legitimize their business and safely pursue a career without risking prosecution or imprisonment. It also allows opportunity for new marijuana businesses. Prop 19 also allows the full legalization of any marijuana related business, including "smoking clubs" or "bud bars". Prop 19 legalizes the mass production of industrial hemp as define in Section 11304 part d(i). Under Prop 19 marijuana users may not be discriminated against in the workplace providing there is no concern for impairment.
Given these facts, it is safe to say that Prop 19 has the potential to create more jobs and further employee rights.

Prop 19 will cause more arrests and incarcerations

There is no data to support this claim. Under Prop 19 responsible adults who are of the same age to drink alcohol will not go to jail for marijuana related offenses. Prop 19 prevents law enforcement from threatening or executing any arrests and/or seizures based on marijuana use. This prevents local law enforcement to work with or supply intelligence to federal agents providing no state law has been broken. Marijuana use/cultivation will no longer be enough for probable cause or reasonable suspicion under Prop 19. The penalties for exposing (sale, gift, etc) minors to marijuana are harsh. For minors 14 years of age or younger, 3-5 years in state prison. For underage people 18-20, a $1000 fine and up to 6 months in state prison.
Simple solution: Be a responsible adult and don't sell, give, or involve minors or underage people in marijuana. Provided adults act responsibly with regards to Prop 19, there is no reason to believe arrests will increase and logic would suggest the opposite.
 

mrFancyPlants

Well-Known Member
But... but... I saw this youtube video! Rancho Cordova man! Then my friend, HE saw the youtube video too! That's like 2 people now... and I can't read well, but I read the bill.. and it says tax..

So fucking prove to me where it doesn't say that you won't not get taxed or we'll need to meet in person to show you what a pussy you are!

Seriously though.. fucking sad.. just talked to another friend and he's voting 'No' because a bunch of his friends are dealers. WTF... Pass 19! Pass the JH bill in 2 years if 19 passes.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
Outgoing California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has until Thursday, September 30, to decide the fate of Senate Bill 1449 — which would reduce adult marijuana possession charges from a criminal misdemeanor
to a civil infraction. That gives reformers one final week to lobby for this sensible reform. If you have not yet contacted the Governor in support of this historic legislation, please do so today.
Senate Bill 1449 amends the California Health and Safety Code so that the adult possession of up to 28.5 grams of marijuana is classified as an infraction, punishable by no more than a $100 fine — no court appearance, no court costs, and no criminal record.
Passage of bill would save the state millions of dollars in court costs by keeping minor marijuana offenders out of court. The number of misdemeanor pot prosecutions has surged in recent years, reaching 61,388 in 2008. Adults who consume marijuana responsibly are not part of the crime problem, and the state should stop treating them like criminals.
Governor Schwarzenegger, a Republican, has vetoed several different marijuana law reform bills in the past. Therefore, if you live in California, it is vital that you please e-mail or call Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s office and urge him to sign SB 1449 into law. For your convenience, a pre-written letter will be e-mailed to the Governor when you visit NORML’s ‘Take Action’ Center here.

Im for legalization but not how prop 19 says, there is a differnt way to do it and it wont take years.Sensible legislation is needed. Prop 19 is written for some make me millions, tax hike, give government control and money assholes who realy dont give a ratsass about the average joe.

Please e-mail the governor with the link provided and urge him to sign SB 1449 into law e-mail or call
 

Rusko

Active Member
blaw blaw blaw who gives a fuck? Im still voting No after reading this propagand bullshit. People dont like prop 19 because it a peace of crap prop.Its that simple prop 19 suck.


"Oh but but its all we got right now so lets pass it."

NO I got standers. If im starving I will not eat shit because it all I got.
yeppp.we got it good right now in cali.WHY CHANGE IT?!?! the government shouldnt b able to tell us patients how much medicine we can have or limit our grow spaces.PROP 19 IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT
 

mrFancyPlants

Well-Known Member
If 19 passes I can sell my lights, grow outside and stop paying for electricity. Under 215 and my local restrictions, I can't grow outside unless I build a greenhouse.

Either way - weed's gonna be so cheap soon that I won't have to worry about it. Talked to another friend - local dispensaries have people coming in multiple times AN HOUR trying to sell dank. Sorry - shelves are full.

Saw the same thing last year - friends sitting on pounds of kush. I'm guessing it all flows east but I don't know nothing about that :) Now we got east coast states passing med laws and the gold rush begins again out there - too bad for California dealers because you're out of a job either way we go.
 

Brokenneck

Well-Known Member
IMO
A step in the right direction is at least a step.
Maybe if something got started it could then be molded into what the voters can all agree on.

....if its taken US voters a very long time to get this going again would the bill failing to pass make it take as long to get it going again?

Yes, Sad indeed the recent San Fran Debate featured in Cculture.
Having heart in what you believe in is admirable.
I don't agree with everyone but damn it your views are as important as mine.

As for 215 its not written that great either.
We've got doctors giving write ups for everyone. Dispensaries are ripping people off, making profits, putting skanky chicks behind the counter to entice the buyers.

I would love to be able to goto Barneys Breakfast Bar LA, grab a sack, get some GOOD seed, food and for the time being be forced into 25 square.
 
this is a great post, and to you couple of people spounting random bullshit. yes it will be taxed, like every other cultivation/sale business. if you plan to do so for income and business be prepared for it to be treated like one. go read 19 5x times and then go to your 215 that you praise so much and find out how much more vague 215 is. link to it here http://www.chrisconrad.com/expert.witness/Prop215.html#215text.

215 does not give rights to its citizens, it is strictly for quote "seriously ill Californians" thats what it says on the bill. not anyone with 75$ who wants his papers. 19 however does give rights to citizens. and these rights CANNOT BE TAXED. only the section of commercial trade, transportation and licensed cultivation for profit are subject to taxes. it will be illegal to do otherwise

Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls - (cannot be taxed)

Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls - (can be taxed)

Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees - (read below to see how, notice no mention of 11300 being taxable)

(a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.

(b) Any licensed premises shall be responsible for paying all federal, state and local taxes, fees, fines, penalties or other financial responsibility imposed on all or similarly situated businesses, facilities or premises, including without limitation income taxes, business taxes, license fees, and property taxes, without regard to or identification of the business or items or services sold.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
yeppp.we got it good right now in cali.WHY CHANGE IT?!?! the government shouldnt b able to tell us patients how much medicine we can have or limit our grow spaces.PROP 19 IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT
Myth....

The bill specifically exempts that.
 

Brokenneck

Well-Known Member
I am really open for discussion on this matter. I think everyone should be able to say how they feel especially here.
I see it like this
You want to build a house. Look we could all use a house right.
either you can start or you can sit on your ass hoping that one will fall from the sky.
You say the house has no windows and no doors.
Well you could build the house and then start fixing it the way you would be happy with it. At least you have a roof over your head.
Or you could sit on your ass.

I think that I would rather build a house that might not be perfect today but with your help we could make it comfortable for everyone.

I'm not ever going to toss harsh words your way, even if I don't agree with not building a house.
Yet still I will defend your right to your opinion as well as sharing your opinion on any open forum.
I am old enough that I DID vote for prop 215, that house shit, she isn't ready yet but it is a roof.
 

Brokenneck

Well-Known Member
oh and please do not think that I was stating that a single member of this forum may or not be sitting on their ass.
Again I am not lashing out at any single individual.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
The major issue with pointing to any sort of article, or interview, or whatever may be out there, other than the bill itself, is totally pointless...The ambiguity of the proposition (if passed) will be left to the CA governement to decipher. Saying that you have proof because you have an interpretation is different than saying "they didnt include the CUA/MMP in the exemptions section 2C(2)..." Because you can prove the latter beyond a doubt, the former, however, is totally irrelevant in relation to the actual structure of 19, and its implementation.
 

Brokenneck

Well-Known Member
Ruiner, I agree...
"article,interview,blog" these are opinion, one sided.

What are your personal problems with the prop? If you don't mind me asking.
Enlighten me, Bro I'm down give me your best, make it simple enough for all to understand.
I am not the only one reading here.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Some have called me greedy. I wish I had enough to sell. Everything I produce is eventually consumed, at no cost by myself and three others. All patients, 2 are family members and the other my oldest friend(43 years since we burned our first fatty, together).

Over the last decade, I've been able to meet our needs, using 300 square feet.

Now, they want to reduce my grow by 92%.

They want us to go buy their crap for $400/oz.

I'd rather kill them and take their pot.

If you can PROVE that Prop 19 won't effect my grow, I'll support it, whole heartedly.

Unfortunately none of those supporting prop 19 have been able to do so.

Instead they say, "Pot will be cheaper".

Bull shit.

Prove me wrong.
 
section 2b
blah blah blah

8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

11362.5 is 215
11362.7 is sb 420

i believe this is the proof youre looking for. this basically says, in the county that chooses to enact the bill, everyone will be subjected to the rules regulations on growing and selling/buying, except for you medical patients. your permits are set by the doctors. id say thats pretty clear and has always been the case. before prop 19
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
section 2b
blah blah blah

8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

11362.5 is 215
11362.7 is sb 420

i believe this is the proof youre looking for. this basically says, in the county that chooses to enact the bill, everyone will be subjected to the rules regulations on growing and selling/buying, except for you medical patients. your permits are set by the doctors. id say thats pretty clear and has always been the case. before prop 19
I've pointed out the exemptions for Prop 215 patients over and over again.
These people will simply ignore the facts for which you are providing just as they have mine.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
section 2b
blah blah blah

8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

11362.5 is 215
11362.7 is sb 420

i believe this is the proof youre looking for. this basically says, in the county that chooses to enact the bill, everyone will be subjected to the rules regulations on growing and selling/buying, except for you medical patients. your permits are set by the doctors. id say thats pretty clear and has always been the case. before prop 19
I guess you don't need to read my posts regarding how Propositions work.

Since Prop 215 and the H&S codes never mention grow area.

This leaves the 25 sq. ft limit as the limit for EVERYONE, unless there is SPECIFIC language exempting MMJ patients.

Not one person has shown me that language.

Read the Health and Safety codes.
 
I've pointed out the exemptions for Prop 215 patients over and over again.
These people will simply ignore the facts for which you are providing just as they have mine.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.
its a shame that our own people are doing this to themselves. all we can do is just keep putting the right info out there.
 
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