Proof of Where GOD Came From

Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Cant blame them man. I love the series and even I thought this story was outrageous, but it is very entertaining for sure. I do believe some crazy shit like that happened though, I believe it is at least a half truth, which is still amazing.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
I have partially explained how it works. Everyone has the tools to do it and we are obliviously doing it sometimes but we simply dismiss it as coincidence. Your thoughts are not confined to your own head, they are constantly streaming out like clouds or strings , my friend wouldnt be inside your head reading your mind but instead just sitting there and receiving the thoughts that include him. If his brain was scanned during the thought receiving there would only be brain activity in the pineal gland and other central organs. There would be absolutely no way to detect the thoughts that are coming or going because they are of the soul, which is impossible to detect.
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How do you actually know these things?
If he hasn't and won't submit to testing, then there is no way to say these things are undetectable.
I am confident no matter what the test. But the thought of doing 52 card tests and number tests just annoys me. Why jump through hoops when you can get straight to the point with one or two questions from Pad? Perhaps my friend could try reciting what Pad thinks word-for-word, taking out the stuff that Pad doesnt want people to here, because the mind is quite chaotic, especially when you know someone is reading it.
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The reasons are control, simplicity, consistency, verification and repeatability. Stream of consciousness thoughts can be, as you say, chaotic. There would be no one except the sender to verify anything. A consistently high score using playing cards, Rhine-Zenner cards, random number generator, or other such test, not only should be a piece of cake to do because of the simple thought that is being 'sent' but can be compared to chance results and other so-called gifted individuals. If he cannot pass a simple test using playing cards, then anything else becomes suspect, including NLP, hypnosis, cold-reading etc. We have been trying to tell you for months now how fallible our brains, especially our memories are. While Pad's personal experience as a skeptic and his recollection may be interesting, no one can dismiss other mechanisms rather than supposed thought transfer. It is amazing that we can we keep explaining why personal testimony is insufficient evidence and you still don't seem to understand why.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
How do you actually know these things?
If he hasn't and won't submit to testing, then there is no way to say these things are undetectable.
The reasons are control, simplicity, consistency, verification and repeatability. Stream of consciousness thoughts can be, as you say, chaotic. There would be no one except the sender to verify anything. A consistently high score using playing cards, Rhine-Zenner cards, random number generator, or other such test, not only should be a piece of cake to do because of the simple thought that is being 'sent' but can be compared to chance results and other so-called gifted individuals. If he cannot pass a simple test using playing cards, then anything else becomes suspect, including NLP, hypnosis, cold-reading etc. We have been trying to tell you for months now how fallible our brains, especially our memories are. While Pad's personal experience as a skeptic and his recollection may be interesting, no one can dismiss other mechanisms rather than supposed thought transfer. It is amazing that we can we keep explaining why personal testimony is insufficient evidence and you still don't seem to understand why.
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My friend receives thoughts, he does not go inside someones head to read their thoughts, the thoughts come to him. So thoughts are constantly flowing outside of our heads and nothing in history has ever been able to detect them, just like souls. If you disagree then I guess your options are that he doesnt understand how he is able to do this or he is lying to us.

The same consistent results can be made without those simple repetitive games, and Pad agrees with that. Pad could be in complete silence while thinking of specific questions that require detailed answers and my friend would answer every single question in detail. I also think that way is much more interesting and entertaining as well, since Pad plans to make a video documentary of this, Im sure my friend would also throw a few mind blowing curve balls at Pad just to spice things up.

I understand completely about your stance on the fallible mind and personal testimony, I just think its silly to fall back on that excuse with every single personal experience that you hear about, it implies that there must be something wrong and that there just has to be a non-magical explanation to everything no matter what. In this case, I do not take your fallible mind argument seriously because no matter what the situation or circumstance, the result is always the same, no matter what person experiences it.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
My friend receives thoughts, he does not go inside someones head to read their thoughts, the thoughts come to him. So thoughts are constantly flowing outside of our heads and nothing in history has ever been able to detect them, just like souls. If you disagree then I guess your options are that he doesnt understand how he is able to do this or he is lying to us.
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If I was picking up people's thoughts, there is no real way for me to determine if these are thoughts still in the head or have somehow 'escaped' the confines of the brain as you suggest. So, again, we are back to asking how you know. You might suspect, you might hypothesize, but you seem pretty damn sure that people can pick up stray thoughts but we cannot make actual technology to replicate that and, even if I believed anyone could read thoughts, to claim to know exactly what is being done and that it is outside the scope of scientific inquiry is a claim that I don't believe anyone can make.
The same consistent results can be made without those simple repetitive games, and Pad agrees with that.
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I doubt he agrees. However, consistency was ONE of many reasons we favor tests with controls, and there is absolutely no consistency to random thoughts.
Pad could be in complete silence while thinking of specific questions that require detailed answers and my friend would answer every single question in detail. I also think that way is much more interesting and entertaining as well, since Pad plans to make a video documentary of this, Im sure my friend would also throw a few mind blowing curve balls at Pad just to spice things up.
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How are we, who are not there, know what Pad was thinking? Where is the verification?

I understand completely about your stance on the fallible mind and personal testimony, I just think its silly to fall back on that excuse with every single personal experience that you hear about, it implies that there must be something wrong and that there just has to be a non-magical explanation to everything no matter what. In this case, I do not take your fallible mind argument seriously because no matter what the situation or circumstance, the result is always the same, no matter what person experiences it.
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You don't completely understand it if you wish to disregard it for some situations. Special pleading isn't going to make alternative explanations disappear. Yes, every single personal experience is worthless to convince someone that hasn't had that experience, more so when those experiences appear to break the laws of physics as we know them. If 10 people in NYC told me they saw Regis Philbin on the subway, I don't think I would spend much time doubting their claim, even though they all could have been duped by a look-a-like. However, when multiple people claim to see aliens or ghosts or can read minds, those claims are worthy of examination and in all of history, there has never been a verifiable, repeatable, confirmed instance of ANY of those things so yes, I am going to remain skeptical no matter how many people think they have had their minds read until it has been put to some controlled tests.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
If I was picking up people's thoughts, there is no real way for me to determine if these are thoughts still in the head or have somehow 'escaped' the confines of the brain as you suggest. So, again, we are back to asking how you know. You might suspect, you might hypothesize, but you seem pretty damn sure that people can pick up stray thoughts but we cannot make actual technology to replicate that and, even if I believed anyone could read thoughts, to claim to know exactly what is being done and that it is outside the scope of scientific inquiry is a claim that I don't believe anyone can make.
I doubt he agrees. However, consistency was ONE of many reasons we favor tests with controls, and there is absolutely no consistency to random thoughts.
How are we, who are not there, know what Pad was thinking? Where is the verification?

You don't completely understand it if you wish to disregard it for some situations. Special pleading isn't going to make alternative explanations disappear. Yes, every single personal experience is worthless to convince someone that hasn't had that experience, more so when those experiences appear to break the laws of physics as we know them. If 10 people in NYC told me they saw Regis Philbin on the subway, I don't think I would spend much time doubting their claim, even though they all could have been duped by a look-a-like. However, when multiple people claim to see aliens or ghosts or can read minds, those claims are worthy of examination and in all of history, there has never been a verifiable, repeatable, confirmed instance of ANY of those things so yes, I am going to remain skeptical no matter how many people think they have had their minds read until it has been put to some controlled tests.
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Exactly. Are you certain that those thoughts you are thinking are your own? Its a little mind boggling to think about but I think its safe to say that a lot of our thoughts are our own. I imagine my friend deciphers his thoughts from others because the voice in his head changes and hes able to tell that what he is receiving is not at all his thought process. Its a much more direct connection than when we sometimes receive thoughts.

You are correct. We cant make technology to detect thoughts. So scientifically you would never get passed a hypothesis when trying to figure out how this is happening. I know because my friend doesnt need to be concentrating on anything in order to receive thoughts. It is completely effortless for him, he finds it more difficult to stop receiving thoughts. Even if it was him going inside someones mind and reading their thoughts, there is something coming and going. OR perhaps thoughts travel to him like sub atomic particles jumping from one place to another without ever occupying the space in between, just thought about that possibility. Either way, it is a transfer of information and that information travels somehow. If hes inside someones head or if hes just receiving thoughts, theres information traveling and being transferred from one to the other. Something is going in and coming back, and that cannot be detected.

Re-read the conversation. I said if he thought of a specific question and my friend answered it in great detail, and answered another one, and another one, and then recited a personal experience that Pad was thinking about, Pad would be convinced. But I guess you think Pad might lie about what hes thinking for some reason and hes just playing along in this huge game Im supposedly playing. You have to agree that Pad knows a lot better than to do that because he has a lot of reputation, respect, and credibility on this forum. Why would he all of the sudden just fake everything and make everyone believe in the 'supernatural', do you not trust Pads word? I do see where you are coming from though. I'd imagine we could do a short card test at the start just to get things rolling.

Im not special pleading. Im not saying you should take every amazing claim seriously, Im just saying that to think every 'supernatural' experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind is ridiculous.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Exactly. Are you certain that those thoughts you are thinking are your own? Its a little mind boggling to think about but I think its safe to say that a lot of our thoughts are our own. I imagine my friend deciphers his thoughts from others because the voice in his head changes and hes able to tell that what he is receiving is not at all his thought process. Its a much more direct connection than when we sometimes receive thoughts.

You are correct. We cant make technology to detect thoughts. So scientifically you would never get passed a hypothesis when trying to figure out how this is happening. I know because my friend doesnt need to be concentrating on anything in order to receive thoughts. It is completely effortless for him, he finds it more difficult to stop receiving thoughts. Even if it was him going inside someones mind and reading their thoughts, there is something coming and going. OR perhaps thoughts travel to him like sub atomic particles jumping from one place to another without ever occupying the space in between, just thought about that possibility. Either way, it is a transfer of information and that information travels somehow. If hes inside someones head or if hes just receiving thoughts, theres information traveling and being transferred from one to the other. Something is going in and coming back, and that cannot be detected.

Re-read the conversation. I said if he thought of a specific question and my friend answered it in great detail, and answered another one, and another one, and then recited a personal experience that Pad was thinking about, Pad would be convinced. But I guess you think Pad might lie about what hes thinking for some reason and hes just playing along in this huge game Im supposedly playing. You have to agree that Pad knows a lot better than to do that because he has a lot of reputation, respect, and credibility on this forum. Why would he all of the sudden just fake everything and make everyone believe in the 'supernatural', do you not trust Pads word? I do see where you are coming from though. I'd imagine we could do a short card test at the start just to get things rolling.

Im not special pleading. Im not saying you should take every amazing claim seriously, Im just saying that to think every 'supernatural' experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind is ridiculous.
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This is where your reasoning seems to be flawed. You must understand, in science, anecdotal evidence is useless. To MP, to anyone else, what I might experience is completely useless unless it can be replicated.

Trust, reputation, respect.. none of that plays a role in accurate science. Only results.


Could you be inclined to test each subject, on video, without my being there, physically? Perhaps a live podcast type situation, where I provide you with a digital webcam, if you don't already have one, and I send you questions to ask each subject, weather on cam or off (only voice), and they reply accordingly? Maybe we could even log on via podcast and ask them ourselves, me, MP, Z, Heis... they'd just have to be there to answer.. You said they'd like to avoid international fame, what if we signed a non disclosure agreement? Guaranteeing privacy and anonymity? No faces, just voices. Would they be more inclined to do something like that?
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
This is where your reasoning seems to be flawed. You must understand, in science, anecdotal evidence is useless. To MP, to anyone else, what I might experience is completely useless unless it can be replicated.

Trust, reputation, respect.. none of that plays a role in accurate science. Only results.


Could you be inclined to test each subject, on video, without my being there, physically? Perhaps a live podcast type situation, where I provide you with a digital webcam, if you don't already have one, and I send you questions to ask each subject, weather on cam or off (only voice), and they reply accordingly? Maybe we could even log on via podcast and ask them ourselves, me, MP, Z, Heis... they'd just have to be there to answer.. You said they'd like to avoid international fame, what if we signed a non disclosure agreement? Guaranteeing privacy and anonymity? No faces, just voices. Would they be more inclined to do something like that?
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I understand. Some people here might trust you but if someone else seen the video than they would just call bullshit and say everything was planned. A controlled test is needed to get things going. Then we move on to the mind blowing shit lol.

Long distance wont work. You have to get to know each other first. You need to establish a connection. You need to know this person exists, know what his personality is like, and know who you are sending thoughts to. Digital information from a computer cant establish that kind of connection between you two.

I dont think anything needs to be signed. Though you guys may be qualified to investigate this matter and confirm it, I dont see it getting major attention, at least not right away. I can see the video getting youtube famous. I can see scientists trying to track us down to confirm these claims, but I dont see things getting out of control.
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Exactly. Are you certain that those thoughts you are thinking are your own? Its a little mind boggling to think about but I think its safe to say that a lot of our thoughts are our own. I imagine my friend deciphers his thoughts from others because the voice in his head changes and hes able to tell that what he is receiving is not at all his thought process. Its a much more direct connection than when we sometimes receive thoughts.

You are correct. We cant make technology to detect thoughts. So scientifically you would never get passed a hypothesis when trying to figure out how this is happening. I know because my friend doesnt need to be concentrating on anything in order to receive thoughts. It is completely effortless for him, he finds it more difficult to stop receiving thoughts. Even if it was him going inside someones mind and reading their thoughts, there is something coming and going. OR perhaps thoughts travel to him like sub atomic particles jumping from one place to another without ever occupying the space in between, just thought about that possibility. Either way, it is a transfer of information and that information travels somehow. If hes inside someones head or if hes just receiving thoughts, theres information traveling and being transferred from one to the other. Something is going in and coming back, and that cannot be detected.

Re-read the conversation. I said if he thought of a specific question and my friend answered it in great detail, and answered another one, and another one, and then recited a personal experience that Pad was thinking about, Pad would be convinced. But I guess you think Pad might lie about what hes thinking for some reason and hes just playing along in this huge game Im supposedly playing. You have to agree that Pad knows a lot better than to do that because he has a lot of reputation, respect, and credibility on this forum. Why would he all of the sudden just fake everything and make everyone believe in the 'supernatural', do you not trust Pads word? I do see where you are coming from though. I'd imagine we could do a short card test at the start just to get things rolling.

Im not special pleading. Im not saying you should take every amazing claim seriously, Im just saying that to think every 'supernatural' experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind is ridiculous.
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Why is it ridiculous? There has never been a single documented case of this happening in all of history. Ever. It's ridiculous for you to expect anyone to simply accept it.

That's like me saying you should take harry potter seriously. I mean it's mostly bullshit, but at least one of those claims must be true right? There are so many books and movies with so many little unexplained magical things that defy my understanding of the world.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:
I understand. Some people here might trust you but if someone else seen the video than they would just call bullshit and say everything was planned. A controlled test is needed to get things going. Then we move on to the mind blowing shit lol.

Long distance wont work. You have to get to know each other first. You need to establish a connection. You need to know this person exists, know what his personality is like, and know who you are sending thoughts to. Digital information from a computer cant establish that kind of connection between you two.

I dont think anything needs to be signed. Though you guys may be qualified to investigate this matter and confirm it, I dont see it getting major attention, at least not right away. I can see the video getting youtube famous. I can see scientists trying to track us down to confirm these claims, but I dont see things getting out of control.
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Are you kidding? You do realize there has never been a confirmed case of this EVER. Like never ever. Through all of history anytime anyone has ever claimed to have this ability they were wrong. When put to a controlled test 100% of people FAIL. That is 100%, as in all, as in never even a single case. If you are telling the truth and are not mistaken then this would easily be one of the greatest and most important findings that humanity has ever discovered. Your friend would easily be the most famous person in the world. He would be the only person in history to have this ability.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Heis had a Minchin quote for his siggy for a while - "Throughout history, every mystery ever solved has turned out to be... Not Magic ..." This is what people like CWE don't get: They figure out of all the millions or billions of people that have claimed something supernatural, some of them MUST be correct (argumentum ad populum). But as Guy says, not even ONE has EVER been verified. They claim this is the fault of science, rather than the possibility there may not be anything actually there to verify. If they understood cognitive/neuroscience better (or at all), they would understand the way the mind works, and how easy it is to be fooled. I also used to feel that if I was certain about something then it had to be true, after several years of study I can see my certainty doesn't necessarily mean anything in regards to the facts of reality...
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
Why is it ridiculous? There has never been a single documented case of this happening in all of history. Ever. It's ridiculous for you to expect anyone to simply accept it.

That's like me saying you should take harry potter seriously. I mean it's mostly bullshit, but at least one of those claims must be true right? There are so many books and movies with so many little unexplained magical things that defy my understanding of the world.



Are you kidding? You do realize there has never been a confirmed case of this EVER. Like never ever. Through all of history anytime anyone has ever claimed to have this ability they were wrong. When put to a controlled test 100% of people FAIL. That is 100%, as in all, as in never even a single case. If you are telling the truth and are not mistaken then this would easily be one of the greatest and most important findings that humanity has ever discovered. Your friend would easily be the most famous person in the world. He would be the only person in history to have this ability.
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Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?

I know it would get a lot of attention but not right away. Pad and whoever would explain their background in skepticism and science but that wont be enough to convince the world because it would only be a video and people will still have their doubts. I can see it getting youtube famous but I dont see how interested scientists would track us down because we wont be using real names and I trust Pad not to reveal the rest of our information. If scientists do track us to to OFFICIALLY confirm these amazing findings than we can still deny their requests because I can only see shit hitting the fan if this got international exposure. That is why I only see this getting youtube famous.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?
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This is not what has been said to you. So far in history every investigation has turned out the explanation of hoax, self deception, ect. It is more than reasonable to side with these explanation unless given proper motivation. No one is saying it's impossible, we are saying it's unbelievable at this point. Just like practically everyone in prison says they are innocent, everyone who reads minds says they're the real thing. Every one of those claims that turned out to be false had someone like you backing them up, and while that is in no way an accusation against you, it is also not enough to distinguish your story from the others.

Extraordinary claims have invariably lead to mundane explanations unless also accompanied by extraordinary evidence. In the absence of extraordinary evidence, it is in no way ridiculous to favor the mundane, it is prudent.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?

I know it would get a lot of attention but not right away. Pad and whoever would explain their background in skepticism and science but that wont be enough to convince the world because it would only be a video and people will still have their doubts. I can see it getting youtube famous but I dont see how interested scientists would track us down because we wont be using real names and I trust Pad not to reveal the rest of our information. If scientists do track us to to OFFICIALLY confirm these amazing findings than we can still deny their requests because I can only see shit hitting the fan if this got international exposure. That is why I only see this getting youtube famous.
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No need for anyone to track us down. If this is for real, we won't have to wait in some obscure youtube limbo. I previously mentioned that I know Banachek. Any testing I do could be considered a preliminary for the official $1 million challenge. Think of all of the good, charities he can donate to with that kind of money. But $1 million is nothing compared to the implications this would have on the world. Everything would change. If "spirtituality" could be verified and demonstrated to have actual interactions with the physical universe, the paradigm shift would be tremendous. This is why some of us think you are acting so incredibly blasé about what you supposedly have experienced. This is not something that many people have dealt with.
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Im not telling you to take these claims seriously, I said that right in the quote you commented on. It is ridiculous to say that everyone of these supernatural experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind, it plays into the absurdity of certainty jibber jabber that Z always talks about. Is it downright impossible that some of these experiences are real and come by chance and circumstance?

I know it would get a lot of attention but not right away. Pad and whoever would explain their background in skepticism and science but that wont be enough to convince the world because it would only be a video and people will still have their doubts. I can see it getting youtube famous but I dont see how interested scientists would track us down because we wont be using real names and I trust Pad not to reveal the rest of our information. If scientists do track us to to OFFICIALLY confirm these amazing findings than we can still deny their requests because I can only see shit hitting the fan if this got international exposure. That is why I only see this getting youtube famous.
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You also said this in the same sentence:

Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Im not special pleading. Im not saying you should take every amazing claim seriously, Im just saying that to think every 'supernatural' experience must be a mistake of a fallible mind is ridiculous.
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My point is that it is NOT ridiculous. Out of the millions of people that have claimed supernatural powers over the years, not a single one has ever been able to demonstrate they are correct. They have a collective 100% failure rate, without a single exception. Just think about that. What you are claiming he can do has never been done in real life, even a single time, in all of history. None. Ever.

It would go beyond youtube famous. Seriously, I don't think you understand just how extraordinary the claims you are making are. If your friend had these supernatural powers it would be one of the biggest discoveries ever. Possibly THE biggest discovery ever. It would be a paradigm shift that would turn physics on it's ear. I guarantee your friend would be known by nearly every person on the globe. He would become the most famous person on earth. More famous than any sports player, musician, actor, or politician ever. He would become a household name across the globe, that is how important this discovery would be.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
You also said this in the same sentence:



My point is that it is NOT ridiculous. Out of the millions of people that have claimed supernatural powers over the years, not a single one has ever been able to demonstrate they are correct. They have a collective 100% failure rate, without a single exception. Just think about that. What you are claiming he can do has never been done in real life, even a single time, in all of history. None. Ever.

It would go beyond youtube famous. Seriously, I don't think you understand just how extraordinary the claims you are making are. If your friend had these supernatural powers it would be one of the biggest discoveries ever. Possibly THE biggest discovery ever. It would be a paradigm shift that would turn physics on it's ear. I guarantee your friend would be known by nearly every person on the globe. He would become the most famous person on earth. More famous than any sports player, musician, actor, or politician ever. He would become a household name across the globe, that is how important this discovery would be.
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Yes, he would become that famous if he was verified by professionals. Pad and Z may be qualified to do the job but they are not professionals. If someone recognizable in the scientific community confirmed these claims than yes, everything would change, shit would get crazy. It may be good at first but I just see it ending badly for me and my friends (Re-read the discussion for the reason why).
 
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