ProMix... Is it considered hydroponics or soil gardening?

Kassiopeija said:

A Review on the Current State of Knowledge of Growing Conditions, Agronomic Soil Health Practices and Utilities of Hemp in the United States

"Growing Conditions for Hemp Cultivation

3.1. Soil Conditions Hempcan be grown on several soil types, but it thrives best on loose, well-drained loam soils that are rich in organic matter [53,54]. The most suitable soil for hemp cultivation should have a pH 6.0–7.5 [28] and according to [55], the optimum soil pH for hemp production ranges between 5.8 and 6.0 as it does not grow well in acidic soil. The soil should be deep, well-aerated, rich in nutrients, and have a good water-holding capacity [53]. Sandy loam texture is ideal for hemp growth, followed by clay loam, but heavy clay soil and sandy soil are not very well suitable because they hold too muchor too little water [56]. Soil preparation is an essential process in hemp cultivation, and all soil hard pans should be broken to allow free draining as waterlogging kills the plants, especially the young ones. The presence of a compacted layer can restrain root development, particularly when the compaction pan is due to poor soil preparation. Hemp is a tap-rooted crop, and in fine soils, the taproot typically takes on an L-shape, which negatively affects the uptake of nutrients and water by the crop [15]. A study concluded that fertile clay loam or silt loam soils with neutral alkalinity are most suitable for hemp cultivation [57]. Hemp does not germinate well in acid sandy soils, heavy clay, or gravelly soils. Hemp plants could grow in peaty marshlands but will yield lower amounts and quality of fiber [57]. Hemp is very sensitive to soil moisture conditions and should not be subjected to drought. It grows well in soils with high water-holding capacity, and good soil drainage is crucial to maximizing its production since most hemp plants failed to grow in poorly drained soils [58]."

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I'd consider my 3 1/2 year old soil a sandy loam or silty loam. But it's hard for me to say for sure. At least I'm in the Loam range,

I use promix HP and I add some extra chunky perlite, GH nutes mixed half to 3/4 strength, every or every other time I water. I always add calmag until flower. I Ph to 6.3-6.5. If not I burn shit up. My well water Ph is 9+!! Loaded with calcium. I have to add more? Chemistry magic. I use root booster, cause I wonder how much use the fungus is as I pour salts all over it...
I recycle it sometimes. I feel bad about depleting peat resources. Just moving the leaves around in the yard I guess.
I have used other mediums. I know others using other everything. Some better,some worse. I get what i want and the cost is ok, so im happy.
I treat it like hydro. It is not soil. It is dirt. Soil is alive. Dirt is a mix of stuff waiting to host life.

Kassiopeija said:

strange just 2 days ago I was reading an evaluation of soil-types for hemp and it cited sandy-loam and peat as potentially viable for outdoor farmers. It was an US review IIRC. Let me just search for it.

I doubt peat is inert, although there are different peat. But I've used a mixture of black & white peat to run water through and it releases alot of good bioavailable stuff, that even showed up on an EC meter.

It's plant material that is broken down, yeah most if what it did contain has been washed out but not all. If you establish a bacteria culture in a peat based soil they may free more nitrogen when further breaking it down.

Isnt the general idea of soil that it is a mixture of plant material (in various stages of decay) + mineralic content?

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Kassiopeija said:

strange just 2 days ago I was reading an evaluation of soil-types for hemp and it cited sandy-loam and peat as potentially viable for outdoor farmers. It was an US review IIRC. Let me just search for it.

I doubt peat is inert, although there are different peat. But I've used a mixture of black & white peat to run water through and it releases alot of good bioavailable stuff, that even showed up on an EC meter.

It's plant material that is broken down, yeah most if what it did contain has been washed out but not all. If you establish a bacteria culture in a peat based soil they may free more nitrogen when further breaking it down.

Isnt the general idea of soil that it is a mixture of plant material (in various stages of decay) + mineralic content?

10 years ago I took soil-probes on various outdoor locations where stinging nettles grew (before planting there) and the meter would show pH 8.0 & EC 0.01mS. The soil from the farmers field also shows this.
But it's not inert. Organic compounds mostly can't be traced, needs to be combusted during a lab analysis.

As for proper pH set, the ratio of nitrate-to-ammonia in the fertilizer has an influence on that.

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In that article you cited, there comparing field soils. Promix in containers using soluble nutrients isn’t comparable to that. Peat surely has the potential to harbor microbial life but it has no mineral content or organic matter. it’s not soil.

farmerjoe420 said:

In that article you cited, there comparing field soils. Promix in containers using soluble nutrients isn’t comparable to that. Peat surely has the potential to harbor microbial life but it has no mineral content or organic matter. it’s not soil.

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"Sphagnum" is a genus of approximately 120 different species of mosses known as "peat moss." Sphagnum and the peat formed from it do not decay readily because of the phenolic compounds embedded in the moss's cell walls. Peat moss can also acidify its surroundings by taking up cations, such as calcium, magnesium, and potassium, and releasing hydrogen ions. Under the right conditions, peat can accumulate to a depth of many yards. These bogs are slowly building and 80% of the peat moss used in the United States comes from Canada. Approximately .02 percent of the 270 million acres (422,000 square miles) of Canadian peat bog are used for peat moss mining. There are some efforts made to restore peat bogs after peat mining. It is debated as to whether the peat bogs can be restored to their pre-mining condition and how long the process takes. Many peat companies claim this to be a sustainable practice, but that is hotly debated topic depending on where you source your information on the subject.

Pros of Peat Moss:

• Free of weed seeds, pests and pathogens.
• Can absorb up to 20 times its weight in water.
• Contains beneficial microorganisms.
• Acidic pH (a "pro" in my opinion because you can add highly alkaline amendments to it).
• Contains a variety of elements, especially sulfur, which helps with proper terpene expression.
• Excellent habitat for beneficial microorganisms.
• Harvested in North America, which reduces the fossil fuel impact to get it to the United States.
• Holds 10x to 20x its dry weight in water.
• Better C:N ratio than coco coir.
• Cation exchange capacity (CEC) of 100-200.

Cons of Peat Moss:

• Depletes peat bogs, which requires them to be re-built or sustainably harvested.
• Naturally hydrophobic, meaning if allowed to dry out it will be slow to accept water.
• Needs to be kept evenly moist for optimal plant growth and health.
• Requires hydrating before use.

Coco coir is the natural fibrous material found between the hard, internal shell and the outer coat of a coconut. It is treated before use as a growth medium for plants or fungi by soaking in a calcium buffering solution; most coir sold for growing purposes is pre-treated. Once any remaining salts have been leached out of the coir pith, it and the coir bark become suitable substrates for growing plants.

Pros of Coco Coir:

• Coir pH usually runs 6 – 6.7.
• "Renewable" resource - byproduct of the coconut industry.
• Easier to rewet than peat moss, is not hydrophobic.
• Usually cheaper than peat moss.
• Different reports list coco as having a water capacity ranging from 8x to 30x it's own weight.
• Excellent habitat for microorganisms.
• Free of weed seeds, pests, and pathogens.
• Breaks down slower than peat due to high lignin content.
• Cation Exchange Capacity of 40-60.

Cons of Coco Coir:

• High salinity unless properly washed.
• Quality can vary depending on batch and source of material.
• Higher fossil fuel cost to get the coir to the United States from tropical regions.
• Does not contain many trace elements.
• Does not contain microorganisms.
• Traditionally high in sodium and potassium which can lead to calcium or magnesium deficiencies unless properly treated.
• Requires hydrating before use.
• Increased incidence of nasobronchial allergy among workers in this industry due to the high amount of dust created.
• Some coco coir in tropical regions is being sprayed with pesticides like neonicotinoids, one of the pesticides most commonly linked to honey bee death.

farmerjoe420 said:

In that article you cited, there comparing field soils. Promix in containers using soluble nutrients isn’t comparable to that.

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that's true, a pot is not a marshland, but still the argument stands. Peat is not inert. The peat in pro-mix is peat-moss, here are excerpts from a master thesis on this ingredient:

It even states the nitrogen in peat could be too much for N-sensitive plants.
I used Biobizz light-mix for 1 time, this is only Peat Moss & Perlit, and it contains ~1200mg/l N.

And peat contains also other NPK, and essential micro-elements:

some of these elements are already bioavailable, they are ionic & can be measured by EC.
and that's not even all...

The question is why your promix doesnt give any analysis out? Maybe because of the varying quality?

https://open.library.ubc.ca › p...PDF
QUALITY OF PEAT MOSS AS A COMPONENT OF GROWING ...

Kassiopeija said:

that's true, a pot is not a marshland, but still the argument stands. Peat is not inert. The peat in pro-mix is peat-moss, here are excerpts from a master thesis on this ingredient:
View attachment 5086311
It even states the nitrogen in peat could be too much for N-sensitive plants.
I used Biobizz light-mix for 1 time, this is only Peat Moss & Perlit, and it contains ~1200mg/l N.

And peat contains also other NPK, and essential micro-elements:
View attachment 5086312
some of these elements are already bioavailable, they are ionic & can be measured by EC.
and that's not even all...

The question is why your promix doesnt give any analysis out? Maybe because of the varying quality?

https://open.library.ubc.ca › p...PDF
QUALITY OF PEAT MOSS AS A COMPONENT OF GROWING ...

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so your saying peat should be treated as soil because it is not inert ?

Ive always ran pro mix like soil, I know my current mix is organic soil with the extras but even when I ran pro mix and liquid nutrients I still treated it the same. I do know that peat by nature is acidic, thats why they add lime. If lower ph adjusted water works for you then stick with it, for me its always been easy to just mix and pour and Ive never had too many issues with it. I switched to full organic since it offers a more water only / teas solutions, I am finding this way seems to be even easier then liquid nutrients.

To answer the thread I’d say neither. On its own it’s really its own thing.

I tried recycling it with compost and dry amendments and would tell anyone to not waste their time like I did. Unless you can test every aspect of the media it’s frustrating way to go as time goes on and that long release lime wears out.

Never done hydro but I’ve read you can water/feed coco many times a day resetting the stuff totally and never wanting dry back. Right out of the bag that’s not happening with promix.

M.O. said:

Never done hydro but I’ve read you can water/feed coco many times a day resetting the stuff totally and never wanting dry back. Right out of the bag that’s not happening with promix.

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if the correct pot size is used, you can definitely feed daily with promix HP and use it in a similar way as coco

Kassiopeija said:

that's true, a pot is not a marshland, but still the argument stands. Peat is not inert. The peat in pro-mix is peat-moss, here are excerpts from a master thesis on this ingredient:
View attachment 5086311
It even states the nitrogen in peat could be too much for N-sensitive plants.
I used Biobizz light-mix for 1 time, this is only Peat Moss & Perlit, and it contains ~1200mg/l N.

And peat contains also other NPK, and essential micro-elements:
View attachment 5086312
some of these elements are already bioavailable, they are ionic & can be measured by EC.
and that's not even all...

The question is why your promix doesnt give any analysis out? Maybe because of the varying quality?

https://open.library.ubc.ca › p...PDF
QUALITY OF PEAT MOSS AS A COMPONENT OF GROWING ...

Click to expand...

"The most suitable soil for hemp cultivation should have a pH
6.0–7.5 [28] and according to [55], the optimum soil pH for hemp production ranges between 5.8 and 6.0 as it does not grow well in acidic soil."




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I didn’t see anything remotely close to 1200 mg/l , where did you get that number ? Also, look at those charts and note the EC levels as well as total concentration of Nitrogen. It’s not elevated at all. I doubt that would last more than two weeks in the root zone before it was totally consumed.

Peat based soilless mixes are the most widely used substrates in the nursery field. Nurseries plant millions of seeds annually for the market. Anyone who uses a product like promix knows it is virtually void of nutrients. If it had elevated levels of N due to quality variation, you would have to assume that professional nurseries would not use it to plant seeds in.

Herb & Suds said:

I run well water at 8.1 and never check ph after adding anything
You seemed convinced it must be 5.8 ph
I haven’t seen any reason to go near that or even think I have issues View attachment 5086141
But if you think you need to ph in a buffered medium it is your prerogative

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Food for thought. This guy is hardly the owner of a company like advanced nutrients. Note he has a Masters and Bachelors in Horticultural science….


I know that picture you posted is almost 8 years old but maybe the next time you grow a plant, try adjusting your nutrient solution PH between 5.8-6.0 and see if your deficiencies subside. I think they will !

farmerjoe420 said:

I didn’t see anything remotely close to 1200 mg/l , where did you get that number ?

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Biobizz Lightmix, peat + perlit.

farmerjoe420 said:

nutrient solution PH between 5.8-6.0

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but the pH should be based on the plant type, isnt it? these general guidelines can never be totally correct

and so much stuff can happen that changes the pH of the rhizodphere, root exsudates acidify, certain nitrogen forms can break down and do this, medium buffers can become deplete and then yeah, the peat is inherently acidic.

Peat moss and sphagnum moss are the same thing. Sphagnum is the green stuff on surface, peat is sphagnum that’s sunk and decayed over time

farmerjoe420 said:

Food for thought. This guy is hardly the owner of a company like advanced nutrients. Note he has a Masters and Bachelors in Horticultural science….
View attachment 5087141

I know that picture you posted is almost 8 years old but maybe the next time you grow a plant, try adjusting your nutrient solution PH between 5.8-6.0 and see if your deficiencies subside. I think they will !

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I really could care less about your thoughts or feelings

Herb & Suds said:

I really could care less about your thoughts or feelings

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Funny what happens when your faced with something you can’t speak on intelligently.

Kassiopeija said:

Biobizz Lightmix, peat + perlit.


but the pH should be based on the plant type, isnt it? these general guidelines can never be totally correct

and so much stuff can happen that changes the pH of the rhizodphere, root exsudates acidify, certain nitrogen forms can break down and do this, medium buffers can become deplete and then yeah, the peat is inherently acidic.

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If bio bizz is nothing more than peat and perlite but has upwards of 1200 ppm of N, there has to be something else there adding. It isn’t coming from the peat alone. The study you cited supports that.

As far as PH, yes I think PH is dependent on plant type. Again , the other study you cited put hemp in the 5.8-6.0 range as optimal.

I am speaking solely about soilless mixes and soluble nutrients ,specifically Promix HP as that is what this thread is about. Soil is a different story

farmerjoe420 said:

Funny what happens when your faced with something you can’t speak on intelligently.

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Trolling me makes you very impressive
Good luck my skin is thick
Your not doing anything but bragging
Nothing humble
Do I have a degree
Only in real life experience
But hey it’s your world we all just live in it
Maybe I’ll try and not offend you in the future Caesar
But I doubt it
Snowflake wins this round eh?

Herb & Suds said:

Trolling me makes you very impressive
Good luck my skin is thick
Your not doing anything but bragging
Nothing humble
Do I have a degree
Only in real life experience
But hey it’s your world we all just live in it
Maybe I’ll try and not offend you in the future Caesar
But I doubt it
Snowflake wins this round eh?

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Nobody is trolling you. If you don’t want to see my posts stop tagging me or just block me. you’re wrong that PH doesn’t matter and I explained why it does. If you think I’m wrong , speak on it.

Otherwise, stop spreading bro science. A newbie will read this one day and may actually take your advice. I mean, you don’t even grow bro. Just be honest. That picture was almost 8 years old.

farmerjoe420 said:

if the correct pot size is used, you can definitely feed daily with promix HP and use it in a similar way as coco

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That makes sense, I’d not considered that.

ProMix HP, 3 gallon fabric pots, four strains of auto's under a 600w MH in a parabolic reflector.

Non ph'ed well water, fed every watering. Up to 4g/gallon of MC and 1 g/gallon of Bud Explosion now on Day 40....



Cheers