Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

Uncle Ben · Feb 3, 2009

kalm325 said:
I will get pictures of my whole set up soon. It is in a cardboard box right now, but within the week i will move it to a 6ft by 30ish in steel mylar lined cabinet with an vent system but right now all i have is....

Just a thought. As the footprint of the garden expands and contracts, how are you going to manage your plants? I use moveable side reflective panels and keep the panels as close to the plants as possible. You can rig something up using very large cardboard panels that furniture is shipped in or 4X8' sheets of foam. Paint them with 3 coats of thinned Behr's Ultra White latex paint.

Brita does a great job of removing salts, especially carbonates and bicarbonates.

oh ps. the formula says 3-1.5-4 on the front. im assuming thats the NPK but for some reason i remember reading that they are usually like 10-10-10 in a balanced solution but a few of my plants are growing very very well now with the nutrient content. its just that one little guy haveing problems.

Well, as long as you know (and understand the relationship) of the NPK and micro values, and you trust the manufacturer, then that will work. I grow for the most amount of foliage going into flowering, reason why my colas are usually so big.

bdonson said:
Hi Uncle Ben, I've enjoyed reading your posts I think my girl suffers from too much of a good thing 2 weeks into flower 400w hps, Scott soil, snow white, room temp is around 70, using connoisseur, well water ph 7,. From the reading I've done I guess nute burn tho hopefully not too bad yet. I flushed tonight with plain well water. Sorry about the poor pic but hopefully you can make out enough detail to be of some use. Basically new growth is affected curling/rolled up leaves. My plan is too continue to water with ph adjusted water and no nutes. What do you think? Cheers

Regarding the quality of the photos, I need to see them under natural light to do a decent assessment.

Whatever, the damage has been done, it's not reversible, and trying to "atone for your sins" by completely pulling nutrition is not the way to go. Moderate your growing plan, less is more. Focus on new growth to see if you took the appropriate corrective action. If the older leaves are still cupped but nice and green, then they are productive.....don't worry about it.

Good luck fellers ~

Kriegs · Feb 3, 2009

Hey, Uncle Ben -- here's a question for you:

This is a pic of one of my females at her base -- note the glossy, swollen nodes at the petiole bases. Almost looks like the leaves were set in glue. And, one gratuituous pic of one of my first girls in my first grow.. yay!

Now, the RIU FAQ on sexing / pre-flowers also shows this character for its female example, but doesn't say anything about it. Note the difference on the male example (fluted, fuzzy stem -- no swollen glossy "globs" anywhere). Link: https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=96

Near the top of the plant, the stems and nodes all look the same. It's down low where this character is seen. What's really cool (maybe) is that this showed up well ahead of any preflowers. It also cut across strains -- seen it on both bagseed and bubblelicious.

So far, I have four males and four females -- males all fluted and fuzzy down low, females all swollen and glossy / globby.

Thoughts?

Uncle Ben · Feb 3, 2009

Kriegs said:
Hey, Uncle Ben -- here's a question for you:

This is a pic of one of my females at her base -- note the glossy, swollen nodes at the petiole bases. Almost looks like the leaves were set in glue. And, one gratuituous pic of one of my first girls in my first grow.. yay!

Thoughts?

Looks like the results of a detached leaf petiole which has calloused over the wound.

Here's a shot of one of my crosses - O. HazeXC99. The female pre-flowers' shot is better than the link you sent IMO, reason why I'm attaching it. Notice there is no leaf petiole loss and no "bulging".

That shot was taken from this preflowering plant:

Notice there is NO leaf loss? Even the tiny leaves at the bottom are still hanging on. This type of leaf retention should be your goal, if you want a really productive plant.

Good luck on your new fave, lookin' good!

OneHit · Feb 3, 2009

UB, do you lose bottom leaves in flowering? I lose handfuls and handfuls of leaves, but the growth on top is still good.

SUPERHANDS · Feb 3, 2009

uncle ben said:
that's a natural newbie response, you're apprehensive and fear of the unknown will getcha by the cajones every time. Just keep it simple and grow your plants like you would tomatoes. Remember, pot is a weed and where folks screw it up is by overdoing things.

Less is more.

My info is based on many years of experience and botany. I don't subscribe to most of the cannabis forum paradigms, snake oils and rocket fuels.....there's too much voodoo majic in this biz and it doesn't have to be that way. If folks would stop glamorizing and romanicizing weed and stop treating it with some wacked out air of mystique, they would have better results. Just grow the frickin' weed and be done with it. :d

not to toot my horn, but i'm known for producing only big, chunky colas...when it comes to hybrids. Sativas are a different matter and tend to be airy, fluffy type buds but i do well with those indoors too such as old mex, zamal, o. Haze, etc. Here's a link which reveals not only typical nugs i grow but the speed and vigor you'll see in my gardens. Check out the health and color on one of my crosses, a male that i destroyed. That's the kind of plant health and color you should aim for. http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1321.htm

like i said, "less is more". Learn to read your plants, they will tell you when it's time to water, when they need more or less light, etc. It's a balancing act regarding all of the cultural variables and factors.

Good luck,
ub

very wize words people should take note ...

SUPERHANDS · Feb 3, 2009

uncle ben said:
works for me.

I have no experience with feminized seeds. My thoughts are, if you're paying for a service or product and it doesn't deliver, then the seller owes you. Other than the inconvenience of having seeds to mess with, i don't turn down my nose at seeded pot. I think it is every bit as potent as the too often hyped "sensi". I have planted many a seed, not feminized, and had few hermie problems. Hermies seem to arise with mex and other equatorial sativa strains. You just learn to live with it.

Whether or not you toss hermie seeds is up to you. Me, i wouldn't keep them unless they have attributes (phenotype) too fine to lose like excellent potency, vigor, plant structure, etc.

And thanks for the thanks.

Yeppers, another satisfied customer who knows what he wants and is doing what needs to be done.

Absolutely, same goes with plant food or light. You measure a plant's needs based on factors such as size, vigor, color, etc. A plant in the seedling and late flowering stage "needs less" when growth is the slowest.

No shit. I've had to water plants in 3 gallon pots twice a day with at least 1/2 gallon each watering. It all depends on the amount of the foliage, overall bulk and of course temp, rh, etc. Plant culture is dynamic, it is ever changing from the beginning to the end. A master gardener learns to adjust to plant needs/requirements accordingly.

Uhhhhhhhh, you know where that "pro" who recommended that drill can stick his finger. Best bet is water when the pot feels light to the lift. After a few gardens, you don't even need to do that, you just know when the plants need water based on their looks.

You're welcome! And to quote our good friend potroast, "thanks for playing along."

ub

once again top advise. Rep to you dude.

Uncle Ben · Feb 3, 2009

OneHit said:
UB, do you lose bottom leaves in flowering?

Very few.

I lose handfuls and handfuls of leaves, but the growth on top is still good.

Not as good as it could be. Leaves are the lifeblood of your production. Lose them, lose potential production. It's just simple botany folks. Don't make this growing thing some mystical and romantical thingie requiring you to suck up to every new rocket fuel offering from a hydro store. Cannabis is a weed, grow it like a tomato for Christ's sakes.

SUPERHANDS, happy to see you find some value in my posts.

Good luck,
UB

bdonson · Feb 3, 2009

Thanks UB. As a footnote I used my new ph meter for the first time tonight. Well water tested at 8.1, pretty alkaline, no big suprise there I guess but I added 2 ml of vineger and brought it down to 6.4 and watered with that. Just for shits and giggles I mixed 2 ml each of connoiseur A and B into 32 oz water. It tested at 6.8. I use A.N. nutes so I guess I better start keeping better track of my ph I'll try to post better pics tomorrow. Cheers

SUPERHANDS · Feb 3, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
Very few.

Not as good as it could be. Leaves are the lifeblood of your production. Lose them, lose potential production. It's just simple botany folks. Don't make this growing thing some mystical and romantical thingie requiring you to suck up to every new rocket fuel offering from a hydro store. Cannabis is a weed, grow it like a tomato for Christ's sakes.

SUPERHANDS, happy to see you find some value in my posts.

Good luck,
UB

Am old school, been saying for years keep it simple and give them routine they will always thank you, they are weeds, its good like people like yourself to be giving such good info to people that want and need it. respect.

Kriegs · Feb 3, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
Looks like the results of a detached leaf petiole which has calloused over the wound.

Here's a shot of one of my crosses - O. HazeXC99. The female pre-flowers' shot is better than the link you sent IMO, reason why I'm attaching it. Notice there is no leaf petiole loss and no "bulging".

That shot was taken from this preflowering plant:

Notice there is NO leaf loss? Even the tiny leaves at the bottom are still hanging on. This type of leaf retention should be your goal, if you want a really productive plant.

Good luck on your new fave, lookin' good!

Thanks, UB -- everything's going great right now -- couldn't be happier with results thus far.

I guess I didn't communicate my question very clearly. My plants are very healthy -- the missing leaves were cut off long ago due to some nute burn early in life, and for a little lollipopping effect. None of my leaves have ever been damaged or broken -- I'm kind of a fusspot about everything that way.

These bulges, in my batch, are all on my females, and have just formed gradually over the grow. Male plants in the same strain didn't show this at all. It just seemed like it might be a way to tell male from female earlier than preflowers.

Uncle Ben · Feb 4, 2009

Kriegs said:
Thanks, UB -- everything's going great right now -- couldn't be happier with results thus far.

I guess I didn't communicate my question very clearly. My plants are very healthy -- the missing leaves were cut off long ago due to some nute burn early in life, and for a little lollipopping effect. None of my leaves have ever been damaged or broken -- I'm kind of a fusspot about everything that way.

So the bulges aren't at the point of a missing petiole? That was my point. Well, beats the hell outta me. Perhaps I've just never paid attention although I inspect my plants closely. If there is a link between these bulges and the plant's sex, what do you make of it botanically speaking?

These bulges, in my batch, are all on my females, and have just formed gradually over the grow. Male plants in the same strain didn't show this at all. It just seemed like it might be a way to tell male from female earlier than preflowers.

Got a photo?

Good to hear they are healthy.

UB

Kriegs · Feb 4, 2009

Uncle Ben said:
So the bulges aren't at the point of a missing petiole? That was my point. Well, beats the hell outta me. Perhaps I've just never paid attention although I inspect my plants closely. If there is a link between these bulges and the plant's sex, what do you make of it botanically speaking?

Got a photo?

Good to hear they are healthy.

UB

That's right -- there's no missing petioles. This is just how they've grown out naturally. The plant base I photographed just happened to be the easiest photo shoot 'cause I had cut the nute-burned leaves. All the lower petiole bases on my females have this.

I regret not having taken photos of the males before pulling them to show the contrast I'm describing. But, look back to your close-up photo above -- that's how the male mainstems looked all the way down until you reach the semi-woody base at the very bottom of the plant. No bulges, not even a hint of such.

I'm not enough of a systematic botanist (the folks that understand the evolutionary significance of these distinctions) to venture a guess on its meaning, but it's clear that this is a very distinct characteristic, and not anomolous to an individual plant. Recall, too, that this feature is clearly shown in the FAQ on sexing.

It's possible that there is a "strain thing" going on here. I unfortunately didn't come away with any female bubblelicious plants in this batch. If I had and they had the glossy bulges, I would then have two different strains showing separate male and female lower stem characteristics.

It's clear we can't really decide anything at this point - not enough data here. But this is certainly something I'm going to be tracking over the future. If this actually pans out as a male/female characteristic, I could be pulling males a good 10-14 days earlier than normal (this bulging showed at about 2 weeks). Even if it only works within certain strains, that's still very useful, I think. Might even be something people would want to breed into a plant.

capnboint · Feb 4, 2009

well im on my first grow and would like some advice as to what the problem might be. ive tried lowering the amount of watering to 1.5 gallons twice a week but no change after a week. then i tried more water for a week and it got jsut a bit noticeably worse. i have 1 250w hps, 4 4ft grow flourescents and 4 2ft grow florescents. ive barely being adding nutes, heard it was better to under do than overdo it. i have well water and i use unsoftened water for it, hope to get water tested soon.

Titan4jah · Feb 5, 2009

have you tryed letting them dry out and then watering enough tell you get run off to test for ph? its either too much water or a salt build up.

capnboint · Feb 5, 2009

Titan4jah said:
have you tryed letting them dry out and then watering enough tell you get run off to test for ph? its either too much water or a salt build up.

yeh i let the soil get very dry then watered it and i got a flow out of it after about 1.25 gallons. a buddies coming to test the ph as soon as he can this week.

Uncle Ben · Feb 5, 2009

Howdy ya'll....

capnboint said:
well im on my first grow and would like some advice as to what the problem might be. ive tried lowering the amount of watering to 1.5 gallons twice a week but no change after a week.

That's because the root system may be in a state of decline. Do not water until the pot feels light to the lift. They are definately showing moisture stress. The amount of water that is wicked off is dependent on leaf mass, temps, RH, etc., but mostly on the amount of leaf mass.

then i tried more water for a week and it got jsut a bit noticeably worse.

I think we found your answer. They are probably being overwatered.

Yeah, you need to have your well water tested. It may be high in TDS and hard as hell. Run your well water thru a Brita filter. You'd be surprised how much salts are taken out, mostly carbonates and bicarbonates. Remember, what the roots "see" is a sum of the parts - your water, nutes, salts in the soil, etc. You can't beat nature's finest - rainwater.

yeh i let the soil get very dry then watered it and i got a flow out of it after about 1.25 gallons

Hmmmmm, you should see runoff quicker than that, unless they were bone dry or you have a super tight soil. A caveat - never allow the soil o completely dry out. That will create dry channels and pockets in the medium that are hell to restore back to a moisture retentive state, especially if the soil is peat based. This is a ion thingie whereby the soil particles repel water molecules. That must be corrected.

If and when the medium does dry out, you should bring it back to a normal state by watering from the bottom up. Add a squirt of Ivory liquid dish detergent to your tub, add water and drop your pot in. Keep adding water to the tub (not your pot) until you see water creep up thru the medium via the drainholes. Leave for about a minute or so and then let it drain.

Good luck,
UB

SUPERHANDS · Feb 5, 2009

could i just add its best to have your water standing for a few days before use, i take my water from my hot water tap fill some of those office bottles and leave them standing for aprox 2/3 days before i use it, every where is diffrent i live in scotland and the water is some of the very best in the world but it still does not do any harm to put it through a filtter, even a few times.

Uncle Ben · Feb 5, 2009

SUPERHANDS said:
could i just add its best to have your water standing for a few days before use, i take my water from my hot water tap fill some of those office bottles and leave them standing for aprox 2/3 days before i use it, every where is diffrent i live in scotland and the water is some of the very best in the world but it still does not do any harm to put it through a filtter, even a few times.

Maybe, maybe not. I'd rely on a water analysis before relying on my feelings. Might save ya a bunch of hassles.

capnboint · Feb 5, 2009

ok, a fellow forum member came over today who done a few grows with decent results, my well water has a ph of under 5, we calibrated his stick 2 times to be sure, i would imagine that had something to do with it. i added more drainage cause he checked and said it was get slimey/gunked up at the bottom. he had me mix up the dirt a bit for a cpl inches on top of the soil, and stab into the dirt without getting the root balls to help areate the dirt a bit. well thanx and i hope your twos guys advice help[s out. till my next noob mistake, peace.

ugmjfarmer · Feb 5, 2009

being close to rootbound and moisture was the problem then boint?

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