Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

DaveCoulier said:

Heres something for you to read about peat moss.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html

Its left me a little more confused now haha.

I do know SPM is often blended with compost in soil mixes, so I wouldn't say SPM is killing the good microbes in it.

Im sure UB can shed some light on whether SPM is really sterile or not.


Regarding the yellowing with bronze spots, Ive experienced that multiple times.

I experienced it on one lady, and had no clue what it was. I thought I may have been under-feeding her, so I gave her full strength nutes, and it stopped spreading(still lost the affected leaves), and she is doing great. 5 weeks into flower now, and no more symptoms like that on FS nutes. Nothing else was changed.

Another time, I was over-watering my second batch of plants and they all developed the same symptoms. I cut back on the water, and they all grew out of it.

The third time, my ph pen was fucked up and I was incorrectly ph'ing my water, and they all got yellowing at the bottom with bronze spots, and the upper leaves were still green but with bronze spotting. I quit using the pen, and said "Fuck Ph'ing" and the symptoms went away and they look so much better.

Hopefully one of those are your problems and you can fix it.

Btw, I assume you're using a cal/mag supplement with the RO water. Which makes me ask UB, is there sufficient Cal/Mag in moist soil mixes(amended with dolomite) that a Cal/Mag supp isn't necessary if using RO water?

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Dave -- thanks for that link. That should be required reading for everyone who wants to understand their soil better. As you see, "peat" can mean a lot of things. I did my research in natural peat systems with soil pH 7.8 and above, with pure calcium carbonate nodules in it. The soil pore water ranged from 7.0 to 7.6 depending on season and recent rainfall. Sphagnum peat systems, on the other hand, are quite acid overall with soil and porewater values in 3's and 4's. Of course, sphagnum peat is the primary peat in use in horticulture.

Regarding cal/mag balance in soils amended with dolomite: that will depend on somewhat on the "dolomite" being used. "Dolomite" is a matrix where the cation positions are part-occupied by Ca, and partly by Mg. The chemical matrix is nearly the same physical structure as calcite -- pure CaCO3 -- but Mg occupies some of those Ca positions in the matrix. It's not a 50-50 split -- true mineral dolomite is about 60-40 Ca to Mg. "Dolostone" is what actually exists in nature, is mined for many applications, and its Ca/Mg balance varies from 10% Mg to maybe 60-70% Mg depending on biogenic origin (pure MgCO3 is very rare in nature).

So, it comes down to whether there are horticultural industry standards for the Ca/Mg distribution in the dolomite used in a soil mix, or produced for addition by the end user. The stuff produced for addition has an analysis on the bag you can consult. I don't know what soil producers who add "dolomite" to their mixes use - I imagine it's some kind of partly refined pelletized material that still retains some of the Ca/Mg variability of the dolostone source. I can't imagine any commercial company expending the money on pure refined mineral dolomite. And then there's the extent to which that industry standard gels with the ideal balance for MJ. Perhaps UB will know if those standards exist and what they are.

To follow up on that link. I followed a link in that discussion to www.peatmoss.com

They will provide a cd with power point presentations about peat for free if you email them and ask for it. I went ahead and did it. Im always up for expanding my knowledge.

Heres the email to request it:
[email protected]

thanks for links dave!
How does this mix look anyone? 3-1-2.
will i need more micro's then whats in it?

wyteboi said:

thanks for links dave!
How does this mix look anyone? 3-1-2.
will i need more micro's then whats in it?
View attachment 676128

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3-1-2 is good for veg, so that covered. It could use some Cal/Mag. That can be taken care of with dolomite, or botanicare cal/mag. I imagine you're already using both since you use Promix and RO water though.

It looks like most of your Micros are covered. You could use Earth Juice MicroBlast. It has a couple of things that are missing in that fert you posted, but it also duplicates alot of it as well. It also has Kelp in it.

I would recommend Kelp, but well Earth Juice has alot of that already covered.

STEM and MicroMax are good sources of micros, but expensive and come in 50 lb bags.

Kriegs, the standards I go by are pretty much relegated to the guaranteed analysis on foods I buy, Calcium carbonate equilvalents, etc. I mix my own soil blends and you'd think I was some kind of witch doctor the way I pour out this and that, throw a toss of that over my shoulder and mix with a shovel to blend. I just do it by looks, smell, and feel. If I use too much peat and the pH drops too much, I can add a bit of hydrated (quick) lime. If usually lands just below neutral using dolomite though.

BTW, our rain water is about neutral. I live in the country and Texas is a mighty big state with alot of open space. The biggest refineries are hundreds of miles away, like Houston. I doubt if they influence rain pH anyway.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Kriegs, the standards I go by are pretty much relegated to the guaranteed analysis on foods I buy, Calcium carbonate equilvalents, etc. I mix my own soil blends and you'd think I was some kind of witch doctor the way I pour out this and that, throw a toss of that over my shoulder and mix with a shovel to blend. I just do it by looks, smell, and feel. If I use too much peat and the pH drops too much, I can add a bit of hydrated (quick) lime. If usually lands just below neutral using dolomite though.

BTW, our rain water is about neutral. I live in the country and Texas is a mighty big state with alot of open space. The biggest refineries are hundreds of miles away, like Houston. I doubt if they influence rain pH anyway.

UB

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Yeah... it may not matter really. As with any natural product, the end members (very low or very high Mg dolostones) are rare and most sources probably fall in the middle. I just figure when a product says it "contains dolomite", that should mean something, at least within a range.

Weed likes dolomite in its soil -- that's the main thing.

Uncle Ben said:

Kriegs, the standards I go by are pretty much relegated to the guaranteed analysis on foods I buy, Calcium carbonate equilvalents, etc. I mix my own soil blends and you'd think I was some kind of witch doctor the way I pour out this and that, throw a toss of that over my shoulder and mix with a shovel to blend. I just do it by looks, smell, and feel. If I use too much peat and the pH drops too much, I can add a bit of hydrated (quick) lime. If usually lands just below neutral using dolomite though.

BTW, our rain water is about neutral. I live in the country and Texas is a mighty big state with alot of open space. The biggest refineries are hundreds of miles away, like Houston. I doubt if they influence rain pH anyway.

UB

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This is what UB looks like when preparing soil. Ive seen it.


http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2479/boilwater.png

DaveCoulier said:

This is what UB looks like when preparing soil. Ive seen it.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2479/boilwater.png

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Now thats funny!!!!!!!!!!

uncle Ben, i am having lots of issues, i have some pics wanted to know if you had time to check them out. and new to this website. didnt really want to post them.

wyteboi said:

I hate to keep askin all these questions, but i am just tryin to figure out why i never had a prob for 10 years until now

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What have you changed? Watering, lighting, temps? Without being there to see your day to day activities, it's anyone's guess.

ub your avatar pic is super tight what strain is that just curious

Dave, that is funny lol.

goofygolfer said:

ub your avatar pic is super tight what strain is that just curious

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Posi Jack Herer

Uncle Ben said:

Dave, that is funny lol.



Posi Jack Herer

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Uncle Ben,
New to this site but it seems your opinion is highly valued. I have some, not all, leaves that are getting bumps on them, spotting and turning brown. Fifth week of flower, lights ok, temp ok, humidity ok. Overall, plants look good but the leaf problem won't go away. Had a bad early on infestation of thrips but they are under control now. It is not he normal silver thrip damage. Attached are some leaf pics. I would appreciate your opinion.

TickTok said:

Uncle Ben,
New to this site but it seems your opinion is highly valued. I have some, not all, leaves that are getting bumps on them, spotting and turning brown. Fifth week of flower, lights ok, temp ok, humidity ok. Overall, plants look good but the leaf problem won't go away. Had a bad early on infestation of thrips but they are under control now. It is not he normal silver thrip damage. Attached are some leaf pics. I would appreciate your opinion.

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Looks like a calcium defenciency

Your gonna need to give more info

what nutes and what soil are you using, please include the NPK values

TickTok said:

Uncle Ben,
New to this site but it seems your opinion is highly valued. I have some, not all, leaves that are getting bumps on them, spotting and turning brown. Fifth week of flower, lights ok, temp ok, humidity ok. Overall, plants look good but the leaf problem won't go away. Had a bad early on infestation of thrips but they are under control now. It is not he normal silver thrip damage. Attached are some leaf pics. I would appreciate your opinion.

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Yeah, more info is needed regarding elements given.

Are those the thrip damaged leaves?

hey ub

i was just reading my neem bottle....... i may have myself a situmantation on my hands?
(well we all know im havin major lockout issues)
this could not possibly cause a "slow lockout" could it? when i say slow , i mean i would think that if i was sprayin um with something that bad then it would show immediately right?
anyways here it is:
Green Light neem concentrate. organic omri bla, bla.
Active ingre. ...Clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil..............70%
inert ingr. ...............30%
thats it , is it that bad?
thanks!

1st pic is the beginning (about a week after re-pot from cups too pots)
2nd is about 3 weeks after repot. (and was pretty green about 10 days before this pic)
the others are leaf damage and believe it or not, recovering from the complete lockout.



the one on the far left was WAY worse a few weeks ago!
wb

so this is on my 91chem shes been very abused her nugs are pinner and long the first pic is jan 1st the seconed pic is from lastnight about 5 weeks into flower

it was started from a 8inch rooted clone under a 600watt hps way to close i put in crappy bark filled dirt drowned and fryed her with nutes for few weeks then switched her to foxfarm mix with light warrior/ocean forest/chunky perlite and underwatered her its been a struggle the whole time for her to survive with how iv treated her

there was a few leafs showing powdery mildew on another plant next to her and i removed the infected leafs flipped them to 12/12 and sprayed them all with sulphur a few days later when i was able to get it i increased airflow and lowered humidity to 25-35%

tried to research it and doesnt look like a common thing so i thought id share im guessing its just cause im an idiot and treated them poorly but would like to hear your thoughts on it have you ever encountered this would there be any way to preserve it or is it not as uncommon as i think or not even albino just a stupid stressed tiny shitty bud

DTR said:

so this is on my 91chem shes been very abused her nugs are pinner and long the first pic is jan 1st the seconed pic is from lastnight about 5 weeks into flower

it was started from a 8inch rooted clone under a 600watt hps way to close i put in crappy bark filled dirt drowned and fryed her with nutes for few weeks then switched her to foxfarm mix with light warrior/ocean forest/chunky perlite and underwatered her its been a struggle the whole time for her to survive with how iv treated her

there was a few leafs showing powdery mildew on another plant next to her and i removed the infected leafs flipped them to 12/12 and sprayed them all with sulphur a few days later when i was able to get it i increased airflow and lowered humidity to 25-35%

tried to research it and doesnt look like a common thing so i thought id share im guessing its just cause im an idiot and treated them poorly but would like to hear your thoughts on it have you ever encountered this would there be any way to preserve it or is it not as uncommon as i think or not even albino just a stupid stressed tiny shitty bud

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well your obviously letting her die so it does not seem strange to me, she wants nutes that your not giving her and that may not be available in the leaves. I'd say keep an eye on her as more of them may very well turn "albino",,,,dead, necrotic, starved, unhappy they all mean the same thing

it didnt turn albino it grew pure white on one half of just that one small bud and the buds are healthy just small
this is my seconed attempt im not letting her die just learning what im doing wrong

DTR said:

it didnt turn albino it grew pure white on one half of just that one small bud and the buds are healthy just small
this is my seconed attempt im not letting her die just learning what im doing wrong

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Ok my bad on the albino bud, but looking at the green healthy plant in 1st pic and then the yellowing leaves in the 2nd pic there is no doubt that she is dying, which is not normal by the way