PHOSPHORUS DEFICIENCY? 4 Weeks 5 days flowering. w/ pics

MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
You are very welcome, holla if you need help, i'd hold-off on the compost tea until after the runoff is clear, just to be sure.
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ive been wondering this lately, when the beneficial bacterias and fungis are breaking stuff down in the soil to make the nutrients available to the plant, do they leave salts behind from the process that get built up in the soil which is why you should flush every couple of weeks? im trying to figure out how their would be an excess salt buildup in the soil if I never gave them any nutes only tea and 3 1/2 weeks into flowering they started purpling like that. My plan was to only give tea until they showed they needed nutes which I thought the purpling was saying hey feed us, but after the 1/4 strength feed they got a little more purple so I gave them 3/4 strength thinking they must really be depleted but then some more leaves turned purple. Guess im asking do salts get built up from the natural processes going on in the soil that would lead to a lockout?
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
You are very welcome, holla if you need help, i'd hold-off on the compost tea until after the runoff is clear, just to be sure.
Click to expand...
ok so I just took a soil sample from 4" deep in the pot of the plant that had the really purple leaves. As you can see it looks like around 7.8ph.....rough lol. If you have salt buildup does it make your ph go up? Its crazy cause when I add my nutes the ph is 4.6. cant believe the soil is actually that high in ph.
 

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MammothGrow

MammothGrow

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MammothGrow said:
ok so I just took a soil sample from 4" deep in the pot of the plant that had the really purple leaves. As you can see it looks like around 7.8ph.....rough lol. If you have salt buildup does it make your ph go up? Its crazy cause when I add my nutes the ph is 4.6. cant believe the soil is actually that high in ph.
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I used water that is run through a sediment filter and a carbon filter. The water is 6.7ph 150ppm 0.3EC
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
MammothGrow said:
ive been wondering this lately, when the beneficial bacterias and fungis are breaking stuff down in the soil to make the nutrients available to the plant, do they leave salts behind from the process that get built up in the soil which is why you should flush every couple of weeks? im trying to figure out how their would be an excess salt buildup in the soil if I never gave them any nutes only tea and 3 1/2 weeks into flowering they started purpling like that. My plan was to only give tea until they showed they needed nutes which I thought the purpling was saying hey feed us, but after the 1/4 strength feed they got a little more purple so I gave them 3/4 strength thinking they must really be depleted but then some more leaves turned purple. Guess im asking do salts get built up from the natural processes going on in the soil that would lead to a lockout?
Click to expand...
found my answer to this. So you were absolutely right about needing to flush. a buildup of sodium carbonate, sodium salts, are occurring probably because most of the organic matter in the soil has been broken down, if their was more organic matter in their it would help to make the ph more acidic. So im going to flush the hell out of them, raise my temps a tad so they dry out a little faster than they are currently, and then give them more compost tea once the ph is back to 6.5 to 6.8 :) Wow I feel like just took an entire soil biology class this week lol. FULLY ADDICTED TO GROWING!!
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
MammothGrow said:
found my answer to this. So you were absolutely right about needing to flush. a buildup of sodium carbonate, sodium salts, are occurring probably because most of the organic matter in the soil has been broken down, if their was more organic matter in their it would help to make the ph more acidic. So im going to flush the hell out of them, raise my temps a tad so they dry out a little faster than they are currently, and then give them more compost tea once the ph is back to 6.5 to 6.8 :) Wow I feel like just took an entire soil biology class this week lol. FULLY ADDICTED TO GROWING!!
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good job brother, nice to see you got it figured out
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

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greasemonkeymann said:
good job brother, nice to see you got it figured out
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I feel like im in science class this is awesome. Went and picked up the Rapitest Soil Test kit for N,P,and K, mixed the soil with water and stirred, waiting for it to settle so I can do the tests and see how the levels of N,P, and K are in the soil after the flush. I tested the ph about 3 hours after flushing and the ph is dialed at about 6.7. Ill test the ph again tomorrow. Ill update after I do the other tests and let you know what ive found :)
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
MammothGrow said:
I feel like im in science class this is awesome. Went and picked up the Rapitest Soil Test kit for N,P,and K, mixed the soil with water and stirred, waiting for it to settle so I can do the tests and see how the levels of N,P, and K are in the soil after the flush. I tested the ph about 3 hours after flushing and the ph is dialed at about 6.7. Ill test the ph again tomorrow. Ill update after I do the other tests and let you know what ive found :)
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Heres a picture of the runoff from flushing and a couple pictures of two leaves that show whats going on the best I think. Also a picture of the ph test after flushing showing its about 6.7 id say.
 

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MammothGrow

MammothGrow

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MammothGrow said:
I feel like im in science class this is awesome. Went and picked up the Rapitest Soil Test kit for N,P,and K, mixed the soil with water and stirred, waiting for it to settle so I can do the tests and see how the levels of N,P, and K are in the soil after the flush. I tested the ph about 3 hours after flushing and the ph is dialed at about 6.7. Ill test the ph again tomorrow. Ill update after I do the other tests and let you know what ive found :)
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Heres the soil tests of the N,P and K and PH from the plant with major purpling. Looks like P is way high, K is sort of high, N is depleted and PH is somewhere close to 7. Whatcha think? I have Earth Juice 16-0-0, would it be bad to flush with some 16-0-0 added to the water to fix the N deficiency and flush more P and K out while lowering the ph a tad more? Or should I just flush one more time and then add some N, I'm just worried they'll keep yellowing more from no N if I just flush with pure water. Thoughts?
 

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MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
good job brother, nice to see you got it figured out
Click to expand...
Heres the soil tests of the N,P and K and PH from the plant with major purpling. Looks like P is way high, K is sort of high, N is depleted and PH is somewhere close to 7. Whatcha think? I have Earth Juice 16-0-0, would it be bad to flush with some 16-0-0 added to the water to fix the N deficiency and flush more P and K out while lowering the ph a tad more? Or should I just flush one more time and then add some N, I'm just worried they'll keep yellowing more from no N if I just flush with pure water. Thoughts?
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
MammothGrow said:
Heres the soil tests of the N,P and K and PH from the plant with major purpling. Looks like P is way high, K is sort of high, N is depleted and PH is somewhere close to 7. Whatcha think? I have Earth Juice 16-0-0, would it be bad to flush with some 16-0-0 added to the water to fix the N deficiency and flush more P and K out while lowering the ph a tad more? Or should I just flush one more time and then add some N, I'm just worried they'll keep yellowing more from no N if I just flush with pure water. Thoughts?
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When I zoom in on the P and K tests in the picture they don't really look off the chart high, id say in between sufficient and surplus. The N obviously is depleted, practically none in there, and the ph looks pretty good but could come down a hair. I'll water a couple pots with just pure water first and check the runoff to see what the EC and PPM is to figure out what the TDS levels are. Once theyre low enough I'll do the soil test again and the P and K should be perfect and then I can add some N to the water. Wish I had a test for Cal/Mag but I think since my water is 150 PPM 0.3 EC it should be good, since I believe if you start with straight R.O. water its usually around 5-10 PPM and you add cal/mag until it is 150 PPM
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

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MammothGrow said:
When I zoom in on the P and K tests in the picture they don't really look off the chart high, id say in between sufficient and surplus. The N obviously is depleted, practically none in there, and the ph looks pretty good but could come down a hair. I'll water a couple pots with just pure water first and check the runoff to see what the EC and PPM is to figure out what the TDS levels are. Once theyre low enough I'll do the soil test again and the P and K should be perfect and then I can add some N to the water. Wish I had a test for Cal/Mag but I think since my water is 150 PPM 0.3 EC it should be good, since I believe if you start with straight R.O. water its usually around 5-10 PPM and you add cal/mag until it is 150 PPM
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ok, so maybe try a EWC topdress with a nitrogen supplement, you can use bat guano, seabird guano, or a water feeding of fish emulsion, or whatever. I love rabbit manure, but if you can't get that, i'd go with I LIGHT feeding of a high nitrogen bat guao, just put a speck though, it can mess things up easily
normally, however, I do not like to feed after flooding the media though, but if it says you have virtually no nitrogen in the soil, it's hard to argue with that...
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
ok, so maybe try a EWC topdress with a nitrogen supplement, you can use bat guano, seabird guano, or a water feeding of fish emulsion, or whatever. I love rabbit manure, but if you can't get that, i'd go with I LIGHT feeding of a high nitrogen bat guao, just put a speck though, it can mess things up easily
normally, however, I do not like to feed after flooding the media though, but if it says you have virtually no nitrogen in the soil, it's hard to argue with that...
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Its funny after all this I now realize when encountering plant issues the best approach is to first check the soil ph, then check the runoff to see what the TDS level is for built up salts etc. Then perform N,P, and K tests to see what your levels are. Im really starting to find out that the phrase "guesswork just wont do" absolutely true lol. Do you think the Earth Juice 16-0-0 would be bad to use, its OMRI listed, just think that would supplement N into the soil that can be used right away instead of it taking awhile for the N in the EWC to break down and be available. Or will not take too long for the microbes to start making it available if I just top dress a little on each pot? Thoughts?
 
SnaFuu

SnaFuu

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Why are you still fucking around man water it with trusted nutes at full str until there's lots of run off.. Like days ago!

Your plants should be full of crystals by now but they're starving. Fuck nitrogen It needs it all
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
SnaFuu said:
Why are you still fucking around man water it with trusted nutes at full str until there's lots of run off.. Like days ago!

Your plants should be full of crystals by now but they're starving. Fuck nitrogen It needs it all
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So I just found this podcast from a guy at Aurora Innovations.

What are the most common questions you get about your products?
The most common: the difference between our soils. Specifically: what is the difference between regular Roots Organics dirt and Formula 707? The answer would be that Formula 707 is a peat based soil as opposed to a coco based soil; consequently it will hold a little more moisture. It's also designed as an outdoor mix, with a third as much food as regular Root Organics. That way you can feed quicker.

So obviously you've been right all along, they are starving, I feel beside myself lol... FUCK lol, giving them food now!
 
SnaFuu

SnaFuu

Well-Known Member
MammothGrow said:
So I just found this podcast from a guy at Aurora Innovations.

What are the most common questions you get about your products?
The most common: the difference between our soils. Specifically: what is the difference between regular Roots Organics dirt and Formula 707? The answer would be that Formula 707 is a peat based soil as opposed to a coco based soil; consequently it will hold a little more moisture. It's also designed as an outdoor mix, with a third as much food as regular Root Organics. That way you can feed quicker.

So obviously you've been right all along, they are starving, I feel beside myself lol... FUCK lol, giving them food now!
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Good news. Your plants will thank you!!;)

I felt bad once you didn't reply to my post since i was a little harsh... But i was tryin to light a fire under your ass lol

Good luck bud
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
SnaFuu said:
Good news. Your plants will thank you!!;)

I felt bad once you didn't reply to my post since i was a little harsh... But i was tryin to light a fire under your ass lol

Good luck bud
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Lesson learned, loaded up my big room but the clones are slow to take off, soaked the rockwool cubes in neem oil to get rid of the fungus gnat larvae, then transplanted them into their pots. Its day 10 of 18/6 light cycle in that room and they've barely showed any new growth, a couple died, but most are still living and some minimal new growth on a few. Wondering if they haven't died yet if they will probably make it, just being really slow to get the roots going I imagine from that oily substance on them. Watered them in with Great White Myco, then gave compost tea day 5, hoping they will survive and start showing growth soon. If I don't see any new growth in another 5 - 7 days ill yank them. starting new clones in the morning that should be rooted in 7-10 days and can replace the ones in there....Rough lol. should've never planted the ones that had fungus gnat larvae.. You think they got a chance since most of them are green still, just not growing fast?
 
SnaFuu

SnaFuu

Well-Known Member
MammothGrow said:
Lesson learned, loaded up my big room but the clones are slow to take off, soaked the rockwool cubes in neem oil to get rid of the fungus gnat larvae, then transplanted them into their pots. Its day 10 of 18/6 light cycle in that room and they've barely showed any new growth, a couple died, but most are still living and some minimal new growth on a few. Wondering if they haven't died yet if they will probably make it, just being really slow to get the roots going I imagine from that oily substance on them. Watered them in with Great White Myco, then gave compost tea day 5, hoping they will survive and start showing growth soon. If I don't see any new growth in another 5 - 7 days ill yank them. starting new clones in the morning that should be rooted in 7-10 days and can replace the ones in there....Rough lol. should've never planted the ones that had fungus gnat larvae.. You think they got a chance since most of them are green still, just not growing fast?
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Couldn't tell ya man i stick to hydro to avoid most of those issues. I just know a hungry plant when i see one;)
 
MammothGrow

MammothGrow

Well-Known Member
SnaFuu said:
Couldn't tell ya man i stick to hydro to avoid most of those issues. I just know a hungry plant when i see one;)
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Decided I don't want to risk a half ass crop in my big room, so I'm pulling all the clones in there and throwing them out, just got some new rockwool cubes to and taking new clones tonight that should hopefully be rooted and ready in about 10 days.
 
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