Phillips led cabinet critical kushstealth grow

hey all just got settled into my new place and needed a very stealthy grow box. I started with a single wooden cabinet. Inside dimensions measure 21x20x30inches tall. Not having a lot height to work with I decided to go with the Phillips led 14 watt 5000k bulbs. I mounted 6 sockets on a board I cut to fit inside the top of the grow cabinet than installed the 4 14 watt bulbs I had on hand. These led bulbs are bright !!

Once the lighting was finished I started figured out how to vent the cabinet. I wanted to keep noise levels down so I went with 120mm pc fans each fan is rated at 300 mah I have them wired in parallel to a 600 mah dc adapter. I placed one fan as my intake on the bottom of the cabinet and then cut another hole on the top right next to the leds to extract all the heat build up inside the cabinet.

Next I lined the cabinet with white plastic. That was the hardest part about this build, getting the plastic tight against the cabinet walls without it having wrinkles is a task !!

I germinated 3 critical kush using the paper towel method then placed the seeds in soaked rock wool cubes after 24 hours. I then placed the cubes in an aluminum foil pan and put the lid on and inside the cabinet for 4 hours now !! Here are so pics . More to come stay tuned !

Only 3 leds since they haven’t sprouted.
I have a lot left I need to do to the grow cabinet to get it fully finished. I want to install a pc fan controller with thermostat so I can control the fan rpms based on the heat level inside of the cabinet. Also want to add more white plastic around the vent holes in the back so it looks much cleaner.

Alright now I have some questions!

First off the lighting.
I can’t find much information on using led bulbs for growing... I can find plenty on CFLs and HID also blurple leds... but this is a led bulb I’m using.

So my first question is if I’m using an area that is 3 square feet and have 28 inches from the floor to ceiling, would 6 led 14 watt 5000k bulbs be good for veg ? That 84 watts of led. That’s 28 Watts a square foot. Or should I install 3 more sockets with 3 more 14 watt leds so I have a total of 126 Watts ?

Next question!
How close should I have my seedlings to these leds ? Can I get away with 18 inches ? Or should they be 4-6 inches away ? I have the diffusers taken off of the bulbs so all the light is pointed straight down in a beam so I can have the light to close...

Thanks everyone.

Zbud94 said:

That’s 28 Watts a square foot.

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Just about right for veg. You might bump it up a bit more for flower.

nfhiggs said:

Just about right for veg. You might bump it up a bit more for flower.

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I was actually thinking I could have this cabinet as my veg and than I found a small 20X36X62in grow tent that will perfectly fit inside my closet I can use that for flower !!
So I will have a perpetual 2 month harvest.

How do these led bulbs compare to Citizen CLU048 cobs ? Watt for watt say I built a cob panel that ran 4 CLU048 at 50 Watts for a total of 200 cob Watts. How would a led bulb panel of say 14 bulbs each bulb 14 Watts with diffusers removed to make a total of 196 Watts from led bulbs. How would each compare? Would I get similar results if I realized I’m not going to get the penetration from the led bulbs and ran a Scrog removing the under growth .

Zbud94 said:

How do these led bulbs compare to Citizen CLU048 cobs ? Watt for watt say I built a cob panel that ran 4 CLU048 at 50 Watts for a total of 200 cob Watts. How would a led bulb panel of say 14 bulbs each bulb 14 Watts with diffusers removed to make a total of 196 Watts from led bulbs. How would each compare? Would I get similar results if I realized I’m not going to get the penetration from the led bulbs and ran a Scrog removing the under growth .

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It comes down to efficiency of the chip. I'm just guessing, but I think the CLU048 would be more efficient meaning more PAR per watt.... However, it might not end up making a huge difference in the end. The 16 lights would give you better spread than 4 COBS

Have you considered Quantum boards? I have a 2x2 tent that I use for flower. I run 2 Vero 7 cobs at around 80 watts a piece. This works just fine, but Quantums would probably be better because of the even light spread. Timber Grow lights has the kits for around $350.

Consider your color temperature. 5000k isn't that great for veg or for flower. 6000k for veg and 3000k for flower. I veg and flower with 3000k and it works fine.

You may run int the situation where 200w of light is too much heat for a small fan to extract.It just depends how hard you are driving the lights.

sunny747 said:

It comes down to efficiency of the chip. I'm just guessing, but I think the CLU048 would be more efficient meaning more PAR per watt.... However, it might not end up making a huge difference in the end. The 16 lights would give you better spread than 4 COBS

Have you considered Quantum boards? I have a 2x2 tent that I use for flower. I run 2 Vero 7 cobs at around 80 watts a piece. This works just fine, but Quantums would probably be better because of the even light spread. Timber Grow lights has the kits for around $350.

Consider your color temperature. 5000k isn't that great for veg or for flower. 6000k for veg and 3000k for flower. I veg and flower with 3000k and it works fine.

You may run int the situation where 200w of light is too much heat for a small fan to extract.It just depends how hard you are driving the lights.

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Awesome ! Thank you sunny747 I’ll look into quantum boards. I believe quantum boards use the Bridgelux eb strips. One of the most if not the most efficient lighting methods to date. I’m really wondering how the penetration will be using these led bulbs. I can put my hand under the light and raise my hand until you can see a full circle beam of light about 4 inches away from the light then it starts to taper off.

If I could keep plants uniform across the entire scrog keep everything in check I bet these leds could do fairy well.

What do those lights look like without the diffuser, a bunch of small rectangles spread out, or a cob?
I've been likewise using 3 then later on 6 of these in my veg closet, they are heaps good

If you are severely limited in height, then strips are just right for you. Bridgelux EB or Samsung F-Series do not take much difference, but they allow you to work almost without distance. With four 1818 COB's you would have to calculate at least 12", with strips 5" is enough. And EB strips don't need a heatsink at nom. current so pretty easy to work with them.

Randomblame said:

If you are severely limited in height, then strips are just right for you. Bridgelux EB or Samsung F-Series do not take much difference, but they allow you to work almost without distance. With four 1818 COB's you would have to calculate at least 12", with strips 5" is enough. And EB strips don't need a heatsink at nom. current so pretty easy to work with them.

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Can you please explain a bit more on the bridgelux eb series ? How come they don’t need a heat sink ? How do you mount them then ? I guess I need to start doing more research!

Zbud94 said:

Can you please explain a bit more on the bridgelux eb series ? How come they don’t need a heat sink ? How do you mount them then ? I guess I need to start doing more research!

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Try the link below to get ideas on strip builds. They don't need a heat sink, as I understand it, because they dissipate heat more evenly across the surface of the strip. As a result, you can mount them using the screw/bolt notches at the ends of the strip. With a rectangular frame, attaching the lightweight strips this way is more than enough to support them and they will not bow from heat distortion. Good luck!
http://ledgardener.com/samsung-lm561c-build-finishing-touches/

EB series you say????
At the nominal 700ma drive current, a heatsink is not needed. That is a certainty.
Those bulbs you are using are about 80-90 lm/w I'm guessing. Theres no shame in that, in fact I have a 90w seedling/clone station that is illuminated by an 8 socket, capless LED "fixture".....
However, the 560mm EB series emitters will generate upwards of 170 Lm/w, and the 3500k are around 8 bux each...

I've used Phillips bulbs that are 115lm/w if the info on the package is to be believed. 28w per sq.foot has worked well for me, doesn't seem to have much penetration though.

tatikas said:

I've used Phillips bulbs that are 115lm/w if the info on the package is to be believed. 28w per sq.foot has worked well for me, doesn't seem to have much penetration though.

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take the top off and increase l/watt

Zbud94 said:

Can you please explain a bit more on the bridgelux eb series ? How come they don’t need a heat sink ? How do you mount them then ? I guess I need to start doing more research!

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Hey Zbud94!
It's because the heat is spreaded over a large surface and the diodes run with only 43,25mA at nom. current(350mA 1footers, 700mA for 2- and 4footers).
Simply screw them to a metal frame like explained above.
For wiring examples visit ledgardeners website(link above).
Strips are really easy to handle because no soldering is neccessary. Each strip has two pairs of poke-in connectors. You need only a few ft. single core awg20 wire(awg18-22 is okay) and a few Wago clamps(Am4zon/E3ay).
BTW,
the 3500°k strips delivers 175lm/w, 5000°k 180lm/w...

Randomblame said:

Hey Zbud94!
It's because the heat is spreaded over a large surface and the diodes run with only 43,25mA at nom. current(350mA 1footers, 700mA for 2- and 4footers).
Simply screw them to a metal frame like explained above.
For wiring examples visit ledgardeners website(link above).
Strips are really easy to handle because no soldering is neccessary. Each strip has two pairs of poke-in connectors. You need only a few ft. single core awg20 wire(awg18-22 is okay) and a few Wago clamps(Am4zon/E3ay).
BTW,
the 3500°k strips delivers 175lm/w, 5000°k 180lm/w...

Click to expand...

Looks like I will be buying a few of these strips!! 30 Watts per square foot sound good or should I shoot for something higher ?

So a little update on the cabinet and the 3 critical kush !
Day two now for the critical kush seeds in the rock wool. I can see one seedling starting to emerge from the rockwool while the other two haven’t broken ground yet... shouldn’t be long !
Rock wool cubes were soaked in plain water no nutrients were given at this time.

I plan on using pure compost mixed with perlite for my medium and using botanicare pure blend products for my nutrients.

Now for the grow box. The fans were blowing a little strong making too much noise for my stealth box. So I hooked up the included wire harnesses to slow the fan speed down 30%.
I then installed the 5 led bulbs I had on hand.... really looking into the led strip lighting!!

Today I will be unmounting the fans from the back of the box to in the box so the leds from the fans are inside the box so they aren’t so bright at night.
Ask u will be adding my panda film inside the box around the duct holes to make it look like a better finished grow box lol

Yeah, 30-40w per sft. is a good target.
BTW,
I would separate the fan LED's from the power (just cut one LED wire coming out of the fan frame), because you need the fan not only in the light phase. He also has to run in the dark so you can control the humidity. Without a fan you will quickly get into the critical area(+70%) and bud rot is the last thing you want.

Been a little bit since I’ve posted.
Wanted to update this by saying day 19 for one critical kush auto the biggest one of 4 one CK died and one was spiraling inside the rockwool cube and had to be transplanted into a one gallon followed by a 1/4 tsp of super thrive. It is now starting to grow again. I also have 2 blue moonshine seedlings going now started them 15 days ago.
I moved all four plants to my new vivosun 36x20x62 inch grow tent very nice quality by the way! I’m using the vivosun 4 inch booster fan but will have to switch to either a 6 inch booster or a 4 inch inline. Because temps are getting a little bit warm in there. Tent sits at 82-84 with the lights on and 70 lights off I think with better ventilation up top it will help cool the bottom better. On the Bottom I have a 6 inch Walmart clip fan on HI.
The light I’m using is a diy project of mine. Since this tent will mostly be used for veg until June I’ve opted to go with using led bulbs that you can buy in any store pretty much... now I’m trying to stick with the 14 watt bulbs but haven’t made it to Home Depot to buy more. So for now it’s a mix between 9w and 14w led in a mix of 2700k and 5000k. Now I’ve seen CFL grows that look pretty promising. I’m sure it takes time to figure everything out but I’m sure it’s possible to hit .75 gpw with cfl... now cfls are NOT very efficient they get roughly 70lm/watt... leds on the other hand get around 107lm/watt. now I know this isn’t a cob or any kind of high performance grow light that gets 170+ lumens like those bridgelux eb series or Samsung f series BUT!!!! You can buy all your supplies for this diy light at any hardware store.

CFL 70lm/watt 23 watt = 1600lm
Led 107 lm/ watt 14 watt =1500lm

Now leds are made with a plastic reflector type dome around the diodes, if this plastic piece is removed like I have mine they are much brighter. I plan on doing some side by side testing to see if I can come up with any numbers on how much brighter it actually is. But if I could guess I would bet there could be a 15% loss in light with that frosted reflector. So that would work out to a 225 lumen increase per bulb.... making the led actually 123lm/watt... now if this is actually true I don’t know... I just know that an air cooled reflector that is all clear plastic or glass cause a 10% loss of light in an hps bulb.
So let’s say there isn’t a loss in light with the reflector and there is zero benefit from removing the reflector... there is still a 65% increase in efficiency from cfl to led. So an average cfl grow getting .5 Watts an led should easily be able to accomplish better...

for right now I have 138 watts of led bulbs 5000k and 2700k so 12 lights but will have 168 watts of led once I get all 14 watt led bulbs.

Lemme know what y’all think.

I still need to install three more sockets and lights also going to cut out two 4 inch holes in the light board to install two pc fans to suck the air up through from the lights.