PH & Organics

Wetdog · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
So I PH'd my tea after about 36 hours and found its PH at 3.6...? My soil is 7.0 so how in the world can that work! Also, the PPM of the tea was a measly 350! Are my girls starving?

It works for a very simple reason that many fail to grok. A liquids pH has, at best, just a temporary effect on a soils pH, while the soil's pH has a huge and lasting effect on the liquids pH. That is, the soil will bring the liquids pH to the soil's pH. That 3.6pH of the tea will soon be the 7.0pH of the soil after being in contact for a short time.

This is also why it's so important to get the soil's pH right and buffered from the very start with the liming agent of your choice. THEN, the mantra of "In organics, pH doesn't matter" will hold true. It only works if the soil's pH is right from the start. With a pH of 7.0, it sure sounds like you added sufficient lime to your mix. Quit worrying/overthinking this.

Wet

Rasta Roy · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Holy cow! That stuff is cheap! I feel like a sucker for buying the down to earth!

Anything in a bottle is overpriced and usually mostly water lol. Worm castings, kelp, and seabird Guano all as a top dressing makes for a solid fertilizer regimen. You could get more complex but if you're just using a potting soil to start you shouldn't have to. If you start building your own then you gotta start worrying about other stuff but until then lol.

gogogogogogo · Jun 9, 2016

Super soil PH is up to 6.8 :roll:

Maybe you were right! Lol :wall:

Top dressed with some blood meal for some N boost and I'll go look at the grow store for some seabird guano. I'm going to try using Earth Juice organic PH up with the tea just to see if there will be any difference, stuff was cheap and I figure if nothing else I'll just have it.

As a side note, what do you guys use for Potassium? I've found most of these amendments provide very little or no potassium.

Rasta Roy · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Super soil PH is up to 6.8

Maybe you were right! Lol

Top dressed with some blood meal for some N boost and I'll go look at the grow store for some seabird guano. I'm going to try using Earth Juice organic PH up with the tea just to see if there will be any difference, stuff was cheap and I figure if nothing else I'll just have it.

As a side note, what do you guys use for Potassium? I've found most of these amendments provide very little or no potassium.

I use kelp meal, neem cake and alfalfa meal, along with the occasional bit of Molasses every few weeks and I've never had a potassium deficiency. Even before I was using the neem and alfalfa I never had one.

You don't need acres of Potash lol. How is your room temp and air flow? That'll effect your yield more than dumping more potassium in your pots.

gogogogogogo · Jun 9, 2016

Flower room gets a tad hot maxing out at 85, veg room is a perfect 71-73. Plenty of exhaust and intake.

I'll definitely look into using kelp, neem, and alfalfa. I wish I had gone with a more varied soil mix.

Rasta Roy · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Flower room gets a tad hot maxing out at 85, veg room is a perfect 71-73. Plenty of exhaust and intake.

I'll definitely look into using kelp, neem, and alfalfa. I wish I had gone with a more varied soil mix.

They say variety is best. Better to have a little bit of everything, then a lot of one thing. If you're running co2 then that 85 temp won't be a big deal (in fact it's necessary, all though I prefer to keep it around 82).

gogogogogogo · Jun 9, 2016

Naw no CO2. Due to restrictions on space and amperage I can't get an AC hooked up to my room. Sucks but, other than dumping one of my lights, 85 will have to do for flower. There are two fans though, one blowing air over the tops of the lights, and one blowing air across the foliage. It should be okay. Doable, not ideal.

Rasta Roy · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Naw no CO2. Due to restrictions on space and amperage I can't get an AC hooked up to my room. Sucks but, other than dumping one of my lights, 85 will have to do for flower. There are two fans though, one blowing air over the tops of the lights, and one blowing air across the foliage. It should be okay. Doable, not ideal.

Yeah not ideal, but Ive known plenty strains to put up with some high temps as long as there's good air exchange. As long as you got something taking the air out of the room and something bringing fresh air in. And lots of fans blowing across the top of your canopy and you should be alright.

I'm sure you've heard some of these tips before but have your lights come on at night when it's cooler can help with heat management. If you've only got a couple lights you can set up a timer and have one off for an hour, one on for an hour and just have the timer go back and fourth. Probably not the best thing for your ballasts though.

gogogogogogo · Jun 9, 2016

Rasta Roy said:
Yeah not ideal, but Ive known plenty strains to put up with some high temps as long as there's good air exchange. As long as you got something taking the air out of the room and something bringing fresh air in. And lots of fans blowing across the top of your canopy and you should be alright.

I'm sure you've heard some of these tips before but have your lights come on at night when it's cooler can help with heat management. If you've only got a couple lights you can set up a timer and have one off for an hour, one on for an hour and just have the timer go back and fourth. Probably not the best thing for your ballasts though.

Aye I've heard that, but nothing wrong with drilling that sort of thing into people's heads. I run the flower room during night, but being that it is in a basement it doesn't make a whole lot of a difference. I tried to cycle it so that it takes advantage of my veg room's light cycle 17-7. Hopefully I'll get a couple Blue Dream phenos that are heat tolerant, as a lot of sativas are. Only time will tell.

You've been a great help, and I thank you again for you valued input. This is a never ending learning experience and the more discourse and questions being asked, the more we all learn.

Rasta Roy · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Aye I've heard that, but nothing wrong with drilling that sort of thing into people's heads. I run the flower room during night, but being that it is in a basement it doesn't make a whole lot of a difference. I tried to cycle it so that it takes advantage of my veg room's light cycle 17-7. Hopefully I'll get a couple Blue Dream phenos that are heat tolerant, as a lot of sativas are. Only time will tell.

You've been a great help, and I thank you again for you valued input. This is a never ending learning experience and the more discourse and questions being asked, the more we all learn.

No problem man! I'm always learning myself! It's a never ending process but that's what makes these forums great. Having a place for information exchange is everything!

GreenSanta · Jun 9, 2016

greasemonkeymann said:
I love ya man, and I agree with the first part, but strongly disagree with the second.
cannabis isn't a "taproot" rooting system, it's a fibrous one.
a clone will have the same roots as a seeded one, they don't work like that at all.
pull a plant from "seed" and one from clone, and the roots are identical, there is no "taproot"
think about it.
which does your rootball look like?
View attachment 3701982
comparatively
View attachment 3701977
fibrous
View attachment 3701978
and this is a taproot.
carrots, dandelions, etc.

When greasemonkey said that last year i argued with him, so I went and dug out an outdoor plant that was from seed in the winter and he was right... sort of, I could not find any resemblance of a taproot, it was fibrous from the stalk down.

It s not like it was direct seeded though, it was grown in a 1 gallon pot indoor to sex the plant... i would like to try again via direct seeding,. No transplant... however I remember thinking at the time ''damn he was right!!'' In my experience though, cannabis grows much more vigorously grown from seeds than clone, undeniably actually...

I have not read the whole thread yet but all I have to say is top dress with a healthy amount of vermicompost and quit worrying.

whitebb2727 · Jun 9, 2016

cannakis said:
This is Completely wrong. Cannabis is Definitely a Taproot plant, that's why it's so good in Actual soil because it digs so deep compared to rye or wheat which are Fiborous. Hemp digs like 16" deep within like two months minimum or something and wheat and rye Only get like 6" total... It's in "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer.

And that's the difference with Clones and Seedlings, clones do Not have the tap root while Seeds Most assuredly do. Tomatoes do to. Actually some argue Not to transplant hemp and tomatoes because you can break off the deep taproot.

If hemp was Fiborous why does root bound swirling happen so easily so quickly!?!!?

exactly! Don't provide Facts though no one will listen to those... Interesting that's what makes Ruderalis flower.! How so?

The long summer days where ruderalis grows are long20-24 light during the growing season. The ground stays frozen so far down all year though.

When the tap hits that frozen ground it signals flowering.

Contrary to popular belief the lifespan of a ruderalis plant is not set per say.

The larger and deeper the pot, the longer the veg time on an auto.

That's the reason to plant autos directly to final pot.

High N also extends the veg time on autos.

whitebb2727 · Jun 9, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Tell me what you think man, I really appreciate your continued replies and effort to help. I have a couple other girls upstairs in my micro cab I might try fooling around with, try to get my PPM to ~800 and PH to 6.0 and see if there is any noticeable benefit. I hear what you guys are saying about PH, but if my teas are at 3.6 that can't be an acceptable number.

Its fine dude. No need to pH.

Seriously look outside. Lookat at all the plants grown g without a pH pen.

Of course the pH might be off on different teas and what not.

What about humic acid? I'm sure that wouldn't agree with your perfect pH.

Really its fine. Soil buffers itself and the pH actually fluctuates as the soil dries.

PurpletrainWrecker · Jun 9, 2016

GreenSanta said:
When greasemonkey said that last year i argued with him, so I went and dug out an outdoor plant that was from seed in the winter and he was right... sort of, I could not find any resemblance of a taproot, it was fibrous from the stalk down.

It s not like it was direct seeded though, it was grown in a 1 gallon pot indoor to sex the plant... i would like to try again via direct seeding,. No transplant... however I remember thinking at the time ''damn he was right!!'' In my experience though, cannabis grows much more vigorously grown from seeds than clone, undeniably actually...

I have not read the whole thread yet but all I have to say is top dress with a healthy amount of vermicompost and quit worrying.

Un true might i ask what is coming out of seeds other then a Tap root when it first cracks ???? that is exactly what it is clones pending on how you clone you can also achieve tap roots systems 1st year botany class

in most cases when cloning off a cutting initial roots form are the feeder root system

GreenSanta · Jun 10, 2016

PurpletrainWrecker said:
Un true might i ask what is coming out of seeds other then a Tap root when it first cracks ???? that is exactly what it is clones pending on how you clone you can also achieve tap roots systems 1st year botany class in most cases when cloning off a cutting initial roots form are the feeder root system View attachment 3704243

Fibrous rooted plants also start with a taproot when they first germinate...

cannakis · Jun 10, 2016

whitebb2727 said:
The long summer days where ruderalis grows are long20-24 light during the growing season. The ground stays frozen so far down all year though.

When the tap hits that frozen ground it signals flowering.

Contrary to popular belief the lifespan of a ruderalis plant is not set per say.

The larger and deeper the pot, the longer the veg time on an auto.

That's the reason to plant autos directly to final pot.

High N also extends the veg time on autos.

Awesome thanks for the information!

gogogogogogo · Jun 10, 2016

Played around in my super soil today... transplanted my two one gallon pots upstairs into five gallon pots of super soil. Gee, the stuff stinks. Is it possible for it to go anaerobic? I fear I may have kept it too wet. However, I guess my amendments were mostly animal products (bone meal, blood meal, guano) so that might be it, too.

We will see how it goes with these two girls. They'll be going out back, so now I need to learn a thing or two about outdoor grows... lol it is a never ending experience, this hobby of ours!

greasemonkeymann · Jun 10, 2016

GreenSanta said:
When greasemonkey said that last year i argued with him, so I went and dug out an outdoor plant that was from seed in the winter and he was right... sort of, I could not find any resemblance of a taproot, it was fibrous from the stalk down.

It s not like it was direct seeded though, it was grown in a 1 gallon pot indoor to sex the plant... i would like to try again via direct seeding,. No transplant... however I remember thinking at the time ''damn he was right!!'' In my experience though, cannabis grows much more vigorously grown from seeds than clone, undeniably actually...

I have not read the whole thread yet but all I have to say is top dress with a healthy amount of vermicompost and quit worrying.

that's exactly what I discovered, I never even thought about taproots before, but in my early yrs I used a post-harvest rootball inspection to do my soil adjustments, and I just never saw anything resembling a main root or being a taproot, so it was merely from me seeing hundreds of solid rootballs.
I never meant for it to be even remotely an important distintion between the two, but from a botanical standpoint/definition, it's not a taproot at all.

greasemonkeymann · Jun 10, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Played around in my super soil today... transplanted my two one gallon pots upstairs into five gallon pots of super soil. Gee, the stuff stinks. Is it possible for it to go anaerobic? I fear I may have kept it too wet. However, I guess my amendments were mostly animal products (bone meal, blood meal, guano) so that might be it, too.

We will see how it goes with these two girls. They'll be going out back, so now I need to learn a thing or two about outdoor grows... lol it is a never ending experience, this hobby of ours!

yea, more than likely it's anaerobic, that smell is the nitrogen being lost to ammonia gas-off.
the bright side of that is the lowered ph in an anaerobic mix is what that bone meal needs in order to be bioavailable, so I guess that's a bright spot

Olive Drab Green · Jun 10, 2016

I grow in coco/sphagnum/yucca with solid pelletized organics, and My pH sometimes went up to 8.0 and as low as, like, 4.8, and I don't think it really mattered.

PH & Organics

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