PH Issue or More? Red, Rubbery Stems, Taco Leaves, etc Banging head against the Wall.

I have some very, very sick girls. They are not taking nutrients. This is the fifth run I've done in this location using the exact same methods. Something has changed though and I can't seem to lock it down.

The symptoms range from:
- Red / Purple Stems (except the newest growth on all plants)
- Rubbery Main Stems (at the top on my sour kush strain only) Images 5-6
- Taco Leaves (on all)
- Some spotting, etc.. (not nearly as widespread and only affecting one plant. this must be a red herring!) Images 3-4
- Very Stunted Growth across All Plants

I have a number of strains so this is not strain related. It is widespread (not a single healthy plant right now). My environment has plenty of airflow and temps ranging from 65-75. Quality lights, etc..

I use Pro Mix.
Nute Regiment per Gallon is Liq Karma (5ml), Hygrozyme (5ml), Sweet (5ml) and Age Old Grow (5ml).

I have attempted many things including feeding with Cal-Mag, feeding for a couple weeks with straight water, Boomerang treatment, etc..

My research has led to a Mg deficiency but that doesn't alone explain all of it. A friend brought over a couple of healthy girls (Sweet Haze Images 1-2 & Flo) two weeks ago to see if I could produce the same results. Week one they received the normal nute regiment. The following week they received just H20. They are both now showing taco leaves and the stems are that same Red / Purple color I've gotten used to seeing everywhere.

Grow store folks sent me home with a PH kit and I tested the water in between 7 & 8. So, the signs finally point towards a PH problem. But I am worried and this has been going on for some weeks. Some of the girls are starting to look like they aren't going to make it. I have adjusted PH on all feedings but I'm looking for advice.

If they aren't uptaking nutes is my soil full of unused N, P, K, Mg, etc..? Is the Boomerang treatment they advised me on going to help or am I doing more damage adding more nutes into the soil? Is this even a PH issue or could there be something else lurking in the pipes I haven't even thought of?

Any and all thoughts are appreciated. These girls are taking away my precious sleep at this point.

You have a Phosphorus Deficiency going on.
Pic of (P) Def.

Probably have nute lock out due to the uber high PH level.
Need to get it down to 6.5 asap !

topfuel29 said:

You have a Phosphorus Deficiency going on.
Pic of (P) Def.

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Thanks for the fast response..

Some are clearly toxic. They all have that Dark Red / Purple Stem though. Is this a sign that P is not getting into the plant? Does that mean alone mean it's flush time?

With the recommended flush, will cutting my usual regiment down by 50% (from 5ml of each to 2.5ml of each) be mild enough?

Can I flush while they are still moist or should I wait until they are thirsty again?

Do yourself a big favor and grab a pH pen. You need to be able to obtain accurate pH readings on your feed and runoff. Get th e pH under control and see if the problems resolve.

Right on. get a soil pH meter there pretty cheap.
it's all shots in the dark until you know your pH
Pro-mix. Yah you prob. have a Low pH issue going on.
when I run the pro-mix i mix some lime with it

Good Luck with Your Grow.

topfuel29 said:

Right on. get a soil pH meter there pretty cheap.
it's all shots in the dark until you know your pH
Pro-mix. Yah you prob. have a Low pH issue going on.
when I run the pro-mix i mix some lime with it

Good Luck with Your Grow.

Click to expand...

I think you are right sir. I just flushed my Sour Kush with water at a rough PH of 6 and the run off PH was in the 4 range (very dark orange). With the H20 I'd been adding in the 7-8 range it seems like I've been exposing them to very wild PH fluctuations.

Moving forward with preventative! What ratio Lime are you using?

Thank you.

yea, ph will cause lock out just what your plants are showing. Good job man. Maybe you could post some of this in my thread, high ph symptoms, pro-mix and wild ph swings. I have the same issue ( high ph for me) but im told ph has nothing to do with soil and it will always be perfect 6.5 no matter what. you plants tell me differently, it is very important for health of your plants.

Ive been told at least 10 times by different members, ph isnt important in soil, it will always buffer to 6.5. How wrong this is and its all over this site.

Any way yea, you have to get the ph to 6.5 as the others already stated. Adding nutes will only cause more damage and more stress to your plants. All the nutes the plants need are probably in the soil by the size of the pots and by the size of the plants.

good luck man. keep us updated!!

sativa indica pits said:

yea, ph will cause lock out just what your plants are showing. Good job man. Maybe you could post some of this in my thread, high ph symptoms, pro-mix and wild ph swings. I have the same issue ( high ph for me) but im told ph has nothing to do with soil and it will always be perfect 6.5 no matter what. you plants tell me differently, it is very important for health of your plants.

Ive been told at least 10 times by different members, ph isnt important in soil, it will always buffer to 6.5. How wrong this is and its all over this site.

Click to expand...

You seem to have missed the point.
PH is a real issue, and is important for the plants - no matter what medium, this we agree on.

My tap-water is 8.2, and I never adjust it.
I never do, because the PH of the WATER is largely irrelevant, as the only PH that really matter is the PH the plant is actually experiencing around it's roots (the PH of the MEDIUM).

The very second water hits the surface of the medium, it will be altered by the medium immediately.
(Water that is, nutrients are a different story).

I'm not saying organic soil always is at a perfect 6.5, I've never said that. But the feeding (and it's nutrient-ratios) are what really affect the medium-PH, not the tap-water.

One example: Most "organic nutrients", like BioBizz Grow, have Nitrogen in two forms: NO3 (nitrate) and NH4 (ammonium). Ratios differ. But the more NO3, the more acidic the medium will become over time. NH4 has the opposite effect. Now, that was just the effect of Nitrogen.

There are so many ways to grow. Not adjusting works for you. But "I" tryed not adjusting just a few days ago, I took everyones advice. The few plants I watered with 7.5 water are suffering hard right now. They look like death, turning yellow, that was almost 3 days ago.

The point I keep trying to make is I grow a certain way as do you and all the other people on this site. i was just sharing my experience with riu, thats all.

Do you know your ppm on your nute mix? Your dosage description doesn't tell me much. You can lock out nutrients multiple ways and if you've never grown this strain before, it could be more sensitive to nutrient levels than your previous grows. Obviously the ph issue is being covered by others! I'm honestly not sure how important your source ph is on orgainic grows with buffered preadusted ph levels, but I think it is pretty important with the non-orgainic nutes.

Bugeye said:

Do you know your ppm on your nute mix? Your dosage description doesn't tell me much. You can lock out nutrients multiple ways and if you've never grown this strain before, it could be more sensitive to nutrient levels than your previous grows. Obviously the ph issue is being covered by others! I'm honestly not sure how important your source ph is on orgainic grows with buffered preadusted ph levels, but I think it is pretty important with the non-orgainic nutes.

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I do not know the PPM. When you say "the ph issue is being covered by others" what exactly do you mean?

I have grown the Sour Kush and Durban Poison a few times with minor issues like this but nothing to this extreme. They are both showing all kinds of lock out issues.

My friend dropped off a nice healthy Haze plant two weeks ago. I repotted her into a 1G + my regular Fert Regiment (5ml Age Old Grow, 5ml Hygro, 5ml Liq K, 5ml Sweet). After she dried up completely roughly 5-6 days later I hit her with some straight H20. Just a day or two after that I started noticing the stem reddening. Less than one week and the taco leaves are beginning to start up top.

To be clear. I have noticed drastic reactions to straight H20 waterings. My Sour got some H20 a few weeks back and overnight I think she pushed out an inch+. That was an incredible jump compared to her previous schedule.. Although, confusingly the Haze seemed to react Negatively to the straight H20 (as mentioned in the previous paragraph).

I am baffled by this. I have seen some of these signs before with the SK & DP but never to this degree. They don't exactly look like they want to give up but they aren't pushing out much any more. Very little new growth.

If PH is the issue here it would seem that my PH is too low and that is why they seem to have a myriad of issues. Please correct me if I am wrong here!! It is my understanding that the run off can be measured for relatively accurate Soil PH Levels. I have tested two run offs.

First, I flushed with straight H20 with a rough PH of 6.2

1) The first SK run off PH reads at 4. After a full gallon goes through the PH reads 6.
2) I ran a dry run.. Packed a 1 Gallon Pot with 80% Pro Mix HP / 20% Pearlite and the PH is again in the 4 range (dark orange).

Thanks for your insights.

ime haze in general is a very delicate strain, very picky about levels of fert. promix has a low ph to start with. If you did that same "dry" run with a gallon of water with 1-2 tablespoons of wood ash in it, the ph would be in a better range. lime will also bring up the ph. the run off is close to the soil's ph. but not exactlly. I use run off reading as a general direction. If I were to flush and the ph was low in the 4.o range, I would flush with woodash that has a 8.0 range. only untill the runoff reads about 6.0 and stop flushing. the wood ash will still rise as it sits in the soil. once you get the promix down and get use to it, it works awesome. Its all I use and swear by. I also use vermiculite, lava rock, azos and mycos. and a few other things. It will not have any type of buffer out of the bag, so you have to do this or your ph will swing between 4 and 9.

You might not have to but im not lazy, and I always make sure to bring my water to 6.5 before I water. good luck hope this helps