People are missing the BIG picture with Prop 19

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tc1

Well-Known Member
Prop 19 allows local municipalities to legislate and regulate marijuana.

This is extremely important because as activists ... our voices are heard much louder at a local level than they are at the state or federal level. It's much easier for a movement to persuade local politics.

If a few thousand people march on the White House lawn demanding the end of prohibition ... it makes the nightly news and that's the end of it. If a few thousand people march on the lawn of their local court house ... local politicians are forced to listen or else they know they run the risk of being ostracized and booted out of office.

Prop 19 also prevents law enforcement from entering your home just because they can see marijuana-related activities from outside your window. No more reasonable suspicion ... no more probable cause.


How can you vote NO on a proposition that gives activists more power to effect legislation and keeps responsible adults out of jail for smoking and growing marijuana in the privacy of their own home? :-|
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
I understand the BIG picture its all about BIg business and corpocracy.

Ill be damned if I let The elluminate get there hands on mj.:)
Don't want to deal with large marijuana producers?

Grow your own .... because under Prop 19 you're legally allowed to do so.
 

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults. Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn’t be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government’s war on marijuana users.
A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.
They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.
Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot “ruin marijuana” any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.
Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.
While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with “perfect” marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.
The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only “cool” if it is unregulated, and don’t want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.
Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others’ freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.
The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other — even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.
Source: AlterNet (US Web)
 

Banditt

Well-Known Member
There's a real good article in the Nov. High Times regarding this issue. Both sides have good reasons to vote either yes/no. It will be interesting to see how this all turns out.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
ok dude damn, didnt need to write a bible about it lol :)

I just dont like big government or big business.Any thing I can do to piss of or stop big business or big government ill do. I mean this prop was written for them they just threw that 5x5 grow your own area to entice people to vote and they know people would gorw there own anyways.

whats realy going on is The Illuminati is just trying to get everyone to stay hi all the time so they can come in and make us all slaves.:):(They want to your life to be worthless.(this last part was a butch of crap execpt the part about The Illuminati trying to take us over buy legalizing mj, that shit is real.ha

Personaly I think more people will vote for prop 19 then there is living on earth.:)
 

Banditt

Well-Known Member
ok dude damn, didnt need to write a bible about it lol :)

I just dont like big government or big business.Any thing I can do to piss of or stop big business or big government ill do. I mean this prop was written for them they just threw that 5x5 grow your own area to entice people to vote and they know people would gorw there own anyways.

whats realy going on is the elluminate is just trying to get everyone to stay hi all the time so they can come in and make us all slaves.:):(They want to your life to be worthless.(this last part was a butch of crap execpt the part about The elluminate that shit is real.

Personaly I think more people will vote for prop 19 then there is living on earth.:)
wtf is the elluminate? You mean the illuminati? lol get your tinfoil hats out.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Why involve government at all?
Those who refuse to participate in government always end up getting fucked over the most by it. We have a rare opportunity to get a certain amount of control over what the government does when it comes to cannabis. It'd be foolish not to take it.

Sure, prop 19 might have regulations you're not comfortable with, but the current system allows the cops to freely fuck with anyone as long as the smell of cannabis is probable cause. Prop 19 ends that. In that respect, prop 19 even offers protection for completely illegal growers. It gives a certain amount of protection to everyone. When it comes to cannabis, everyone legal or illegal, should be given as much protection from the law as possible.
 

Raptured

Member
ok dude damn, didnt need to write a bible about it lol :)

I just dont like big government or big business.Any thing I can do to piss of or stop big business or big government ill do. I mean this prop was written for them they just threw that 5x5 grow your own area to entice people to vote and they know people would gorw there own anyways.

whats realy going on is The Illuminati is just trying to get everyone to stay hi all the time so they can come in and make us all slaves.:):(They want to your life to be worthless.(this last part was a butch of crap execpt the part about The Illuminati trying to take us over buy legalizing mj, that shit is real.ha

Personaly I think more people will vote for prop 19 then there is living on earth.:)
You should move out of america then. America is big buisness. Anything that can create a profit, big buisness will have a hand in it. You know this.. the only thing that would make me not want to vote for prop 19 is if you have to pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a license to grow it. Other than that the only reason you wouldnt want prop 19 through is because you need it to be illegal to support your life.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
And you obviously trust them to do so.

Yes, I trust the government to enforce the laws.
Hence ... why people go to jail for marijuana-related offenses. Because it's ILLEGAL.

If you don't participate in government ... you can't change it.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Yes, I trust the government to enforce the laws.
Hence ... why people go to jail for marijuana-related offenses. Because it's ILLEGAL.

If you don't participate in government ... you can't change it.
People are under the misconception that you have to like, believe in, or agree with government in order to participate in it. But all you have to be is a citizen. If you don't like/agree with government, that's all the more reason to participate in it. Government doesn't change based on the ideas of those who refuse to participate.

Most people have no idea of the power they have at the local level of government. Individual citizens can make real change at the local level. It's not as hard as most people think. People think that prop 19 giving the power to make cannabis laws at the local level is a flaw. But the truth is that is prop 19's biggest strength. Local activism has a MUCH higher success rate than activism on the state or national level. A group of voters can oppose even large corporations successfully on the local level. This is much more difficult on the state or national level of politics.

Activism isn't sitting around and complaining. It's going out and making a difference. All people need to do is go to their local officials office hours, bring your facts, be prepared to answer any questions they have. A single person regardless of financial status can make a big difference at the local level.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
You should move out of america then. America is big buisness. Anything that can create a profit, big buisness will have a hand in it. You know this.. the only thing that would make me not want to vote for prop 19 is if you have to pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a license to grow it. Other than that the only reason you wouldnt want prop 19 through is because you need it to be illegal to support your life.
What the fuck you going to sit there and tell me to move out of my country who the fuck are you, come over here and make me. I dont sell weed and never have and could give a fuck less of big marijuana. You,ve realy crossed the line telling someone to move out of america because thier beliefs are differnt than yours.I got way more respect for the little man selling weed on the streets even if it is illegal or if his product is overpriced vs. fucking Corporatocracy. You going to say that just because something is the way it is it ok. Ill alway fight bigbuseniss and bid government for as long as they exist.People say that corporate-government is "The American way" yeah and look were we as a country are because of it.Im tired of polititions saying they will fight for the little man when they'er running for office then they get elected and big business puts them in there back pocket.I am a part of and will always support to the fullest small business.I work for a small hydro shop and 90% of the custumers who buy from us are small marijuana business people and they'ev voiced there opinion on prop 19 and I would say that about 90% of them say there going to vote no because its going to put them out of business.Even NORML says that if prop 19 passes it will definitely put small "mom and pop" growers out of business. These people support me buy buying from my place of work so I am definitely
going to support them buy also VOTING NO.

And yes a lisence to sell will be outrageously expensive,the Ca government is trying to make 1.4 billion dollors a year of this shit.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Dont worry Need, so many of the proponents here cant actually even vote. I am really concerned with local new england politics...I go onto internet forums and boast my opinions about them all the time. Those new englanders are really affecting my life in California. Why don't they vote the way I told them to?

I especially like the people that post things written by attorneys advocating 19 (who are working with groups supporting 19, no biased POV there...), like the one in the other thread where Nick Davis or whatever his name is "clears things up" about 19... It's amazing because he just formulated his own arguements against 19, then gave his own rebuttals to his own arguements... wow he won a debate with himself!!! But it obviously impressed a lot of people, so good for him. Fact remains, 19 is written in horrible fashion, no blathering on either end will change that.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
What the fuck you going to sit there and tell me to move out of my country who the fuck are you, come over here and make me. I dont sell weed and never have and could give a fuck less of big marijuana. You,ve realy crossed the line telling someone to move out of america because thier beliefs are differnt than yours.I got way more respect for the little man selling weed on the streets even if it is illegal or if his product is overpriced vs. fucking Corporatocracy. You going to say that just because something is the way it is it ok. Ill alway fight bigbuseniss and bid government for as long as they exist.People say that corporate-government is "The American way" yeah and look were we as a country are because of it.Im tired of polititions saying they will fight for the little man when they'er running for office then they get elected and big business puts them in there back pocket.I am a part of and will always support to the fullest small business.I work for a small hydro shop and 90% of the custumers who buy from us are small marijuana business people and they'ev voiced there opinion on prop 19 and I would say that about 90% of them say there going to vote no because its going to put them out of business.Even NORML says that if prop 19 passes it will definitely put small "mom and pop" growers out of business. These people support me buy buying from my place of work so I am definitely
going to support them buy also VOTING NO.

And yes a lisence to sell will be outrageously expensive,the Ca government is trying to make 1.4 billion dollors a year of this shit.

Are you 21 years of age or older? Because you're not sounding like it. And if in fact you're not, no wonder you seem angry regarding Prop 19.
 
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