Overly Agressive Hyper-Veg Growth Choking Out My Girls!! How Do I Stop It???

mikahdale

Active Member
I am a Compassionate Caregiver here in the civilized Medical Marijuana state where I live, and am not exactly a newbie, been doing this a while now, started years ago in the San Fernando Valley of California, but I am experiencing 2 VERY distressing problems that I need some serious help with please, any advice or suggestions from anyone would be most welcome. I will try to give adequate information about my grow to assist. Mother room has 4 1000W lights. I maintain a constant temp in that room of 72-75 degrees and about 25% RH. I use a passive intake system, pulling outside air through a 10" passive intake, by a 945CFM fan w/variable speed switch to reduce strength, I'm definately exchanging my air about once every 3-4 minutes. All air is filtered through stage 7 HEPA filters before entering, then is pulled through a carbon filter which is connected to my lights with 8" flexduct. The lights are ducted together, air from room and almost all heat evacuated through my exhaust at the other end.
Strains - Am presently working with Northern Lights, ChemDog, The Church, Rocky Mountain Purple Sour Deisel, Sour Kush, Super Silver Haze, and a pure sativa of unknown origin, but is absolutely phenomenal in both quality and yeild.
Growing Medium - I grow in ProMix HP, mixed with 2 parts additional perlite, 2 parts worm castings, and about 1 tablespoon of powdered Dolomite Lime per gallon of Medium.
Nutrient Schedule - For Veg, I use Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow 3-2-4, Botanicare Pure Blend Metabolic Grow Compost, Liquid Karma, Sweet Raw, Cal-Mag Plus, Silica Blast, Budswel Liquid Bat Guano, and SuperThrive. I use somewhat less of each product than indicated on the labels, and end up with a nutrient strength always between 900-1200PPM, always Ph'd at 6.0. For flowering, I use Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Bloom 1-4-5, Botanicare Pure Blend Metabolic Bloom Formula, Liquid Karma, Sweet Raw, Cal-Mag Plus, Silica Blast, Budswel Liquid Bat Guano, Bud Candy, and on this crop just began using Humboldt's "Gravity", Snow Storm Ultra, and Purple Maxx, again, always under minimums, and nute strength Ph'd to 6.0, and 900-1200PPM.

Lately, I've had a SERIOUS problem with overly aggressive vegetative growth. The new leaves seem to grow so aggressively and quickly, they soon begin to wrap themselves around the stems, and then end up in just huge knots of veg matter. The problem has been the most pronounced in my Rocky Mountain Sour Deisels, which all literally choked themselves out and began to die, so I had to pull them early. During Veg and the first few weeks of flowering, I would literally spend HOURS each night "combing" the plants to try and unknot and free all the leaves, it's just a mess. The medicine is PRIMO, absolutely first rate, but unless I can determine what has caused this, and fix it, I simply cannot justify the man hours spent untangling each plant daily, just to have them die. Talk about a heartbreaker, after all that love and labor!!! The plants have such a short internodal distance, the nodes are practically stacked one on top the other. Also, once you start trying to untangle the leaves, very soon a reaction occurs because of contact with my skin, and the leaves start to become very damp and limp, and you might as well give up then, because any further effort just makes them worse!

Second SERIOUS problem I seem to be having (Another Heartbreaker, since I'm now 66 days into flower) my buds have been looking plump and beautiful, literally bathed in frosty looking trichromes, and getting fuller and harder by the day, up until just several days ago, when they started to become "fluffier" again, not quite so dense, and trichromes didn't even look as abundant anymore. Also, on a few of my plants, the tops of the colas started to turn brown, and the buds seemed like they weren't as moist or heavy anymore, getting "airier" daily, to the point where I just couldn't stand to watch it any longer, and just had to harvest several of my plants, which were just beginning to show amber trichromes. The tops looked almost as if they were burnt, but this is impossible, I check the heat between the lamps and my tops constantly, and as I use sealed lights with 8" flanges and exhausted heat, I could easily get my 1000W lights to within 6-8 inches of the tops of my plants without too much heat getting to them, but I still keep them raised to about 12" above the tops.

Finally, in hopes that it might help, I would like to add some information about problems I have had during this flowering cycle. I have a completely seperate "maternity ward" where I maintain my mothers, do my cloning, and initial veg. All mothers and clones are under T5 and T8 lights, initial veg is done in the same room under a 400W Metal Halide. I have, in the past, had SERIOUS heat issues in BOTH of these environments. I had a breaker throw on me a while back while I was still finishing veg on these plants under the 1000W lights with MH bulbs, temps went to 117 before I discovered the malfunction, but I was actually able to save over half the crop. Also, in my maternity ward, I am in a commercial building with a business beneath me that runs a lot of equipment which generates a LOT of heat! I have, however, at long last, finally solved ALL of these issues, and have been easily able to maintain absolutely lovely temps in both rooms by way of sealed, exhausted lights and 2 10,000BTU a/c units in my flowering room, and a 10,000BTU unit in my maternity ward. I stay right around 75 degrees and 45% RH in my "maternity ward", and again, all air pulled in and exhausted by a 945CFM fan exchanging my air at least once every 3-5 minutes. Also, besides the "meltdown", I recently had to do an emergency a/c change in my flowering room during the dark phase of it's 12/12 photo period, and while I was as careful as possible, I didn't have a green safety work-light (Yeah...STUPID!) and while I was as careful as possible, I still am not entirely comfortable with the amount of ambient light that they were exposed to, and this just happens to have happened right about the time my buds started to feel lighter and "fluffier", and I noticed more immature green growth than I had remembered seeing b4. Does anyone know what is the farthest into flowering that a Cannabis plant can be shocked into reverting to veg? Do you think it is possible that this is what is happening? If so...I'm taking them ALL down ASAP!!!

I hope one of you experienced cultivators out there can please help shed some light on these two issues, what might be causing it, and how to rectify it. I am posting as many pics as possible to help. Sorry if I seem a little long-winded, just wanted to give as much 411 as possible in hopes of finding an answer. ;-)

Thank-you all in advance for any and all help you can give me, my patients are really counting on me, and I take my responsibility to them very seriously.



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SOMEBEECH

Well-Known Member
Ive done complete harvest on a AK47 and revegged it fine,IMO photo period was disturbed hence reveggin. How much ambient light they get?
 

Coho

Well-Known Member
Thats what I thought..revegging..The little gal looks like a clone taken during flowering. Nice setup..
edit: not familiar with all those nutes. Any growth hormone stuff?
 

mikahdale

Active Member
Hard to tell, but it was enough for me to sort of see a bit while I was changing out the a/c, I was using a little mini led flashlight. God I hope I didn't screw up, if that's what's happened, I can't afford to wait, I'm gonna have to harvest now. DARN!!!:-(
 

nick17gar

Well-Known Member
growth problem:

dude, 4000w lights... whats your light schedule? perhaps you should try adjusting it.

i had issues like this when i was veggin at 20/4 or 24/0, so now i veg at 18/6. that will cause the plants to stretch and not end up looking like fucked up broccoli.
I still do this early in the veg, intentionally, so i can top them a few times in the first few inches of growth, but after that, you want ´some´ stretching.

+rep for all the pics and long explanation.

seems like you know what your doing, only other thing id want to add in is i start flowering at 12/12 and end flowering doing 10/14 or 9/15 or so, seems it hurries them up a bit.

heat issues also are less likely with the lights being on less. and whatever $ u save on the electric bill can be spent on bigger fans.

Flowering problem:

during flowering the density of the bud varies, going up shortly after a watering, and down again gradually until the next time you flower. (i water every 4 days, and i can tell they get more or less dense).

i too havent been sure when to harvest, so ive little tests where ill cut off a nug and ill notice they get real dense, and they have a growth spurt, where they kinda stretch out a bit, and that repeats. try to not harvest before its ready tho. clip off a small nug or a small branch and dry it real quick and smoke it and see whats really going on. if it gets you superhigh, then you know your in the harvesting window. (keep in mind its gonna be harsh if your still using nutes, and if you used some heater to dry it... either way, if it gets ya really high, stop all nutes, water a bunch, and harvest in a week)

Its also important to remember, the hairs darken more while the bud is drying, and curing so dont go by pistil color. Trichome color is key
 

mikahdale

Active Member
Much thanks for your reply Mr. G! I snuck in my flowering room just after reading your reply, and I had watered b4 going to bed, and you're right, the buds that I feared were feeling less dense, seemed to have magically bulked up a bit, so maybe I haven't sent them back into veg after all, thank goodness. As for my veg., I do that all in my maternity ward, and generally do all my veg under T5s and T8s. I love them for veg., very little heat, and don't cost much to run. I also save a BUTTLOAD on making my own flourescent veg, cloning and mother lights. As far as I can tell, the only thing different between a $150.00 T8 "Horticultural Grow Light", and the ones I make out of cheap or donated used 4' standard flourescent shoplights, is that the fancy T8s use 6500 degree Kelvin bulbs, sold at my local hydro store for $16.00 EACH, which I can buy from 1000bulbs.com for about $3.16 apiece! They work beautifully. I always veg at 18/6, I've studied the science and positions on both, I just feel my little girls, just like the 4 children I raised, need a little sleep each day to grow strong and healthy! So, I know what you mean about the "broccoli effect", but I've even tried raising the T8s WAY above them, to try and FORCE them to stretch and put some distance between the nodes, but still no luck.
In the flowering room where I have the 4 1000W lights, I've got it dialed in pretty good now, plenty of fresh air, have solved all my heat issues. I live in a very arid high mountain valley, but that doesn't seem to bother things much. I run a humidifier just about 24/7 to average 15%-20% RH in that room. The room is 12' by 16', but all my work is done on an 8' x 8' pad, with the 4 lights centered over it. I've had pretty good success with the way I've been doing things here as opposed to when I was in Cali. Here, to stay on the right side of the local 5-0, I have to watch my plant count, so I veg a little longer in my 1Gal. pots, switching into the 5Gal. pots just prior to placing them in the flowering room. I run 36 plants in a 6 x 6 config., and usually have no problem averaging 3oz. dry weight per plant, or just about 7 Lbs. per harvest, or about .78gms.per watt of light used, per flowering cycle. I could probably do better, but I work with a lot of sativa/indica hybrids which aren't quite as healthy yielders as my Northern Lights, and other indicas I've worked with. Also totally agree with you as far as determining when to harvest, I use a 30X jewelers loop, and usually when I see that about 35%-40% of my trichromes have turned amber, I go ahead and harvest, dry, and cure. I use all organic nutes, and for the last couple of weeks, all I use is water, blackstrap molasses, and Humboldt's Gravity, Ph'd at 6.0.

Thanks again for your input Mr. G, totally appreciated, and am always open to any suggestions you might have that I could try to get this broccoli outta my garden! I LOVE that Purple Deisel, but just can't justify 15 min. per plant per day untangling! Great Clips maybe??? ;-)
 

nick17gar

Well-Known Member
Whoa! never water before going to bed, or really id say, 2 hours within the lights coming off

and yea DIY anything saves money, and if shit hits the fan, you probably have the tools and the know-how to fix it, even if its 2 am and every store is closed

By now, if you fixed the light schedule, im sure they arent looking like broccoli anymore, post up some updated pics, lets see

6.0pH is also a little low for soil, try to stick to 6.5
 
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