Organic vs. Synthetic Nutrients

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
One must educate them selfs

You’re in the supermarket eyeing a basket of sweet, juicy plums. You reach for the conventionally grown stone fruit, then decide to spring the extra $1/pound for its organic cousin. You figure you’ve just made the healthier decision by choosing the organic product — but new findings from Stanford University cast some doubt on your thinking.

“There isn’t much difference between organic and conventional foods, if you’re an adult and making a decision based solely on your health,” said Dena Bravata, MD, MS, the senior author of a paper comparing the nutrition of organic and non-organic foods, published in the Sept. 4 issue of Annals of Internal Medicine.

A team led by Bravata, a senior affiliate with Stanford’sCenter for Health Policy, and Crystal Smith-Spangler, MD, MS, an instructor in the school’s Division of General Medical Disciplines and a physician-investigator at VA Palo Alto Health Care System, did the most comprehensive meta-analysis to date of existing studies comparing organic and conventional foods. They did not find strong evidence that organic foods are more nutritious or carry fewer health risks than conventional alternatives, though consumption of organic foods can reduce the risk of pesticide exposure.

The popularity of organic products, which are generally grown without synthetic pesticides or fertilizers or routine use of antibiotics or growth hormones, is skyrocketing in the United States. Between 1997 and 2011, U.S. sales of organic foods increased from $3.6 billion to $24.4 billion, and many consumers are willing to pay a premium for these products. Organic foods are often twice as expensive as their conventionally grown counterparts.

Although there is a common perception — perhaps based on price alone — that organic foods are better for you than non-organic ones, it remains an open question as to the health benefits. In fact, the Stanford study stemmed from Bravata’s patients asking her again and again about the benefits of organic products. She didn’t know how to advise them.

So Bravata, who is also chief medical officer at the health-care transparency company Castlight Health, did a literature search, uncovering what she called a “confusing body of studies, including some that were not very rigorous, appearing in trade publications.” There wasn’t a comprehensive synthesis of the evidence that included both benefits and harms, she said.

“This was a ripe area in which to do a systematic review,” said first author Smith-Spangler, who jumped on board to conduct the meta-analysis with Bravata and other Stanford colleagues.

For their study, the researchers sifted through thousands of papers and identified 237 of the most relevant to analyze. Those included 17 studies (six of which were randomized clinical trials) of populations consuming organic and conventional diets, and 223 studies that compared either the nutrient levels or the bacterial, fungal or pesticide contamination of various products (fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, milk, poultry, and eggs) grown organically and conventionally. There were no long-term studies of health outcomes of people consuming organic versus conventionally produced food; the duration of the studies involving human subjects ranged from two days to two years.

After analyzing the data, the researchers found little significant difference in health benefits between organic and conventional foods. No consistent differences were seen in the vitamin content of organic products, and only one nutrient — phosphorus — was significantly higher in organic versus conventionally grown produce (and the researchers note that because few people have phosphorous deficiency, this has little clinical significance). There was also no difference in protein or fat content between organic and conventional milk, though evidence from a limited number of studies suggested that organic milk may contain significantly higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids.

The researchers were also unable to identify specific fruits and vegetables for which organic appeared the consistently healthier choice, despite running what Bravata called “tons of analyses.”

“Some believe that organic food is always healthier and more nutritious,” said Smith-Spangler, who is also an instructor of medicine at the School of Medicine. “We were a little surprised that we didn’t find that.”

The review yielded scant evidence that conventional foods posed greater health risks than organic products. While researchers found that organic produce had a 30 percent lower risk of pesticide contamination than conventional fruits and vegetables, organic foods are not necessarily 100 percent free of pesticides. What’s more, as the researchers noted, the pesticide levels of all foods generally fell within the allowable safety limits. Two studies of children consuming organic and conventional diets did find lower levels of pesticide residues in the urine of children on organic diets, though the significance of these findings on child health is unclear. Additionally, organic chicken and pork appeared to reduce exposure to antibiotic-resistant bacteria, but the clinical significance of this is also unclear.

As for what the findings mean for consumers, the researchers said their aim is to educate people, not to discourage them from making organic purchases. “If you look beyond health effects, there are plenty of other reasons to buy organic instead of conventional,” noted Bravata. She listed taste preferences and concerns about the effects of conventional farming practices on the environment and animal welfare as some of the reasons people choose organic products.

“Our goal was to shed light on what the evidence is,” said Smith-Spangler. “This is information that people can use to make their own decisions based on their level of concern about pesticides, their budget and other considerations.”

She also said that people should aim for healthier diets overall. She emphasized the importance of eating of fruits and vegetables, “however they are grown,” noting that most Americans don’t consume the recommended amount.

In discussing limitations of their work, the researchers noted the heterogeneity of the studies they reviewed due to differences in testing methods; physical factors affecting the food, such as weather and soil type; and great variation among organic farming methods. With regard to the latter, there may be specific organic practices (for example, the way that manure fertilizer, a risk for bacterial contamination, is used and handled) that could yield a safer product of higher nutritional quality.

“What I learned is there’s a lot of variation between farming practices,” said Smith-Spangler. “It appears there are a lot of different factors that are important in predicting nutritional quality and harms.”

Other Stanford co-authors are Margaret Brandeau, PhD, the Coleman F. Fung Professor in the School of Engineering; medical students Grace Hunter, J. Clay Bavinger and Maren Pearson; research assistant Paul Eschbach; Vandana Sundaram, MPH, assistant director for research at CHP/PCOR; Hau Liu, MD, MBA, clinical assistant professor of medicine at Stanford and senior director at Castlight Health; Patricia Schirmer, MD, infectious disease physician with the Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System; medical librarian Christopher Stave, MLS; and Ingram Olkin, PhD, professor emeritus of statistics and of education. The authors received no external funding for this stud
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
IMO there is no comparison organic vs chem ,, chem wins just like comparing organic vs conventional farming today. there has been dummy tests after tests proving people cold not even tell the difference in taste sure they look at size comparison and say owe yeah that Cucumber was chem fed lol
when breaking it all down to nutrition value very little differences were noted Again Tests after tests proved it , when testing for carcinogens actually manure fed crops had higher toxens
so where does this end really WHERE ????
You believe in GOD i believe in Cinderella
Also when it comes to indoor organic growing ?? i think we forget the basics of full carbon cycle organics natural its not natural when man digs his hands into soil or amends soil with what ever not native to his geological area .. Guaano etc
With growing organic indoor we left out few of the most crucial elements ,, Insects which have a very important role in organics but again were leave that out of the equation growing indoor ..
as we try to mimic mother nature yet cut off her neck at the same time , and how do i come to this point simple ,, look at the TEA CRAZE going on today if your soil was active and natural being organic then there would be no need for teas end of story but wait a min why is there ??
Cause you never really grew it organic to begin with,, the carbon cycle never went full circle it stopped half way ..
and thats the problem growing organic indoor we tend to keep our rooms like a operating table sterile we fight to combat all insects that enter our rooms ..
so with that all said i personally believe its good idea to start indoor organically and then finish it off chemical
Organic out door chemical indoor plain n simple a grower does not have to force feed chemicals for a plant to grow and be successful but that is what many do over dose ..
a true organic operating soil should have enough nutrients to complete a plants cycle from start to finish and 90 percent of so called organic soils DO NOT complete it
i you think your soil is truly living and doing its thing like mother nature intended i dare you , to grow a plant 6 + months start to finish and see what she looks like with only water being fed to plants no teas i will bet that it will not look so good here 6 + month organic grown only rain water 0 nutrients or teas
That my friends is true organic soil

organic out door chem indoor View attachment 3526972View attachment 3526975
You seem to have quite an attitude about organics. None of us are perfect. Many of us do our best to grow the most organic, sustainable cannabis we can in our given situation. No, most of us are not in closed looped systems, but that doens't mean we should run off and use chemical fertilizers. A simple Coot mix has plenty of nutients for a very long time. I know several indoor organic growers that produce beautiful plants with water only. Also, I don't fight to combat insects, I encourage them. If there are not bugs in my soil, I know something is wrong.

P-
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Uh
How about the health aspects of it. Chem fertilizers do cause health problems and disease when veggies, cannabis is consumed. Thats fact.theres no disputing that unless you are a congressman or senator (satyre)

Quality wise there is no comparison. Organic wins hands down.

Yes using organics indoors does help the environment dumping those chems down the drains. Tossing salt filled soils will contaminate ground soil, ground water and if ends up in the dump become anaerobic and produces green house gases. All those hydro growers dumping those resi's causes all kinds of pollution / contamination.

Most true organic heads recycle their soil. I do. I've only made 2 soil mixes in the last 5 years and been using the same soil over and over. So I'm not wasting money buying peat which is mined or pulled from bogs that take years beyond years to form.
Uh...bro....veggies grown with fertilizers do not cause health problems. The nasty pesticides yeah. But the plant food....sorry try again. Need to dispel the myth and mindset in your head that processed fertilizers are bad and organic fertilizers are good. It doesnt work like that.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
"Chem" fertilizers do not cause disease when veggies and cannabis is consumed. THAT IS A FACT. That whole post just reeks of bowshit. Yes pouring fertilizers down the drain doesnt help much but its very very very miniscule compared to the damage your doing hogging up very large amounts of energy in your indoor growroom with your "organic living soil" that doesnt cause disease like "chem"grown weed in the guys basement next door. Lol. Your really stuck there buddy. I can tell. You dont know how growing "organically" screws with the environment in certain ways do you?
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Uh
Uh...bro....veggies grown with fertilizers do not cause health problems. The nasty pesticides yeah. But the plant food....sorry try again. Need to dispel the myth and mindset in your head that processed fertilizers are bad and organic fertilizers are good. It doesnt work like that.
Saying 'bad' and 'good' is completely subjective, and I disagree about the health problems.

P-
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
"Chem" fertilizers do not cause disease when veggies and cannabis is consumed. Thats not a fact. That whole post just reeks of bowshit. Yes pouring fertilizers down the drain doesnt help much but its very very very miniscule compared to the damage your doing hogging up very large amounts of energy in your indoor growroom with your "organic living soil" that doesnt cause disease like "chem"grown weed in the guys basement next door. Lol
And why we grow indoors with lights? Because we have an idiotic, corrupted government that leaves us no choice. The one thing you are failing to consider is the process of making chemical fertilizers.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/10/20/fluoridation-company-fined-2-billion.aspx

http://fluoridealert.org/articles/phosphate01/

P-
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Whats funny is a long time ago i too was an indoor organic spaz. For awhile. I thought i was all noble and righteous. I had the typical grower ego (we all do and its stupid) with my "awesome clean organic buds". Then i woke up. Started runnig coir hydropnics among other ways to feed the plant and though "what the fuck am i doing all this organic shit indoors for anyway?" I moved my organic operation outdoors and in the greenhouse a long time ago. Best move i ever made. You guys will come around....trust me. Peace. Iam out.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
K
And why we grow indoors with lights? Because we have an idiotic, corrupted government that leaves us no choice. The one thing you are failing to consider is the process of making chemical fertilizers.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/10/20/fluoridation-company-fined-2-billion.aspx

http://fluoridealert.org/articles/phosphate01/

P-
Kind of splitting hairs arent we? Running big A.C., dehueys, big lights and pumping co2 in the room. And you want to show how ferts are made? I know how there made bro. If your going to research try checking out the relationship between methane gas / global warming and organic soil farming.
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Whats funny is a long time ago i too was an indoor organic spaz. For awhile. I thought i was all noble and righteous. I had the typical grower ego (we all do and its stupid) with my "awesome clean organic buds". Then i woke up. Started runnig coir hydropnics among other ways to feed the plant and though "what the fuck am i doing all this organic shit indoors for anyway?" I moved my organic operation outdoors and in the greenhouse a long time ago. Best move i ever made. You guys will come around....trust me. Peace. Iam out.
Hold your breath...

P-
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
K

Kid of splitting hairs arent we? Running big A.C., dehueys, big lights and pumping co2 in the room. And you want to show how ferts are made? I know how there made bro. If your going to research try checking out the relationship between methane gas / global warming and organic soil farming.
Again, why do we have to run a/c? Lights? Etc?

P-
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Uh
Uh...bro....veggies grown with fertilizers do not cause health problems. The nasty pesticides yeah. But the plant food....sorry try again. Need to dispel the myth and mindset in your head that processed fertilizers are bad and organic fertilizers are good. It doesnt work like that.
For me, that's reason enough, they spray some funky-ass shit on produce, man.
Even the damn "omri" stuff.
That's the shit that freaks me out, in order to help combat carcinogen we, as humans, are supposed to ingest more healthy foods, anti-oxidants, etc,
BUT all those fuckin "healthy" foods? are sprayed with chemical pesticides..
so what the fuck?
Here, eat some chemicals (pesticides that are supposed to withstand WASHING, no less)
and combat any free radicals in your body by ingesting chemicals.
Yay.
And lets talk about all the runoff as well, red tides, and algae blooms that choke all the life out of the marine life.
Or the fact that the ocean ph is changing to the degree where coral is going to possibly be a thing of the past in a couple decades.
If you really want to talk about carbon footprint, there are bigger fish to fry there.
I guaran-fuckin-tee in 20 mins I could find something on your car's engine/chassis/fuel management that is causing an increase of emissions or fuel consumption....
Really...
Like Pattahabi said, we grow inside because THEY won't let us grow outside.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
K

Kind of splitting hairs arent we? Running big A.C., dehueys, big lights and pumping co2 in the room. And you want to show how ferts are made? I know how there made bro. If your going to research try checking out the relationship between methane gas / global warming and organic soil farming.
methane gas?!
c'mon man.. if you want to go there, again.
BIGGER fish to fry.
You are barking at the wrong tree man
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Uh
Uh...bro....veggies grown with fertilizers do not cause health problems. The nasty pesticides yeah. But the plant food....sorry try again. Need to dispel the myth and mindset in your head that processed fertilizers are bad and organic fertilizers are good. It doesnt work like that.

What's in those fertz and pesticides is the same thing. Same harmful chemicals just less concentrated in fertz. Same horrible heavy metals. There hundreds upon hundreds of published university studies that agrees. Even from the experimental botany department at Oxford university
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
K

Kind of splitting hairs arent we? Running big A.C., dehueys, big lights and pumping co2 in the room. And you want to show how ferts are made? I know how there made bro. If your going to research try checking out the relationship between methane gas / global warming and organic soil farming.
Quick google search:

https://www.fibl.org/fileadmin/documents/shop/1500-climate-change.pdf
The Potential of Organic Farming to Mitigate Climate Change
Chapter key points

Organic agriculture has considerable potential for reducing emissions of greenhouse gases.

Organic agriculture techniques can contribute significantly to sequestration of CO2 in the soil.


I'd be curious your sources for saying organic farming has more impact on global warming than chemical farming.

P-
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
methane gas?!
c'mon man.. if you want to go there, again.
BIGGER fish to fry.
You are barking at the wrong tree man

Yes it's a fact that trash dumps release all kinds of green house gases. The trash at the bottom of the pile never gets any oxygen so it becomes anaerobic and releases green house gases. That's why compost piles have to be turned. Even worm bins release small amounts of green house gases. Again that can't be disputed. Reread what I said if your salt filled soils ends up at the dump. It adds to pollution and contamination.

The shit you come up with to justify your b.s. is too much
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Whats funny is a long time ago i too was an indoor organic spaz. For awhile. I thought i was all noble and righteous. I had the typical grower ego (we all do and its stupid) with my "awesome clean organic buds". Then i woke up. Started runnig coir hydropnics among other ways to feed the plant and though "what the fuck am i doing all this organic shit indoors for anyway?" I moved my organic operation outdoors and in the greenhouse a long time ago. Best move i ever made. You guys will come around....trust me. Peace. Iam out.
actually I won't be coming around.
And by the way, my first grow was started minutes after Kirk Gibson hit his homerun against Dennis Eckersley and the A's.
In 1989.
I've done it the reverse way as you, started chem, and then went organic, and won't be ever going back, at all.
doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong, just means your philosophy is different than mine.
Like telling me what type of women I should be attracted to.
I am merely trying to help the people that are INTO organics, for me, I would have paid hundreds of dollars to learn about amended-leaf-compost mixes years ago, but I had to learn on my own.
If you want to enlighten people on your chemical grows, you should do that.
You seem to know a good amount on that.
 
Last edited:

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Yes it's a fact that trash dumps release all kinds of green house gases. The trash at the bottom of the pile never gets any oxygen so it becomes anaerobic and releases green house gases. That's why compost piles have to be turned. Even worm bins release small amounts of green house gases. Again that can't be disputed. Reread what I said if your salt filled soils ends up at the dump. It adds to pollution and contamination.

The shit you come up with to justify your b.s. is too much
roughly 50% of greenhouse gases created by man (including from combustion engines) is methane, created by livestock.
So if you enjoy a hamburger?
Check your carbon footprint.
Besides, I have a TON of biochar in my soil.
Does hydro have anything like that?
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
roughly 50% of greenhouse gases created by man (including from combustion engines) is methane, created by livestock.
So if you enjoy a hamburger?
Check your carbon footprint.
Besides, I have a TON of biochar in my soil.
Does hydro have anything like that?

I'm a veterinarians only eat dog:P. Just kidding.

I only eat birds and fish. I don't eat pork and red meat. I haven't had either in almost 20 years.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
What's in those fertz and pesticides is the same thing. Same harmful chemicals just less concentrated in fertz. Same horrible heavy metals. There hundreds upon hundreds of published university studies that agrees. Even from the experimental botany department at Oxford university
abso-fuckin-lutely!
If the pesticide is systemic?
and MOST chemical ones are....
What then?
Wash the cells of the fruit?
Wouldn't friggin matter anyways because many pesticides aren't water soluble, they rely on phytolysis, or oxidation, to break down into a different, but not as harmful, chemical.
Scary shit man..
 
Top