Organic no till, probiotic, knf, jadam, vermicomposting, soil mixes, sips etc... Q & A

hyroot said:

looks like it's pelletized. Not sure. gypsum pellets are pretty small. I'd turn them into powder / dust to break them down faster. I've used gypsum pellets years ago. They take longer to break down. That was long before I started doing full no till or even knew what no till was. I was recycling soil and using compost back then but I was removing the roots lol.

Gypsum is not completely necessary. The first few years I was running no till i was using just bentonite and basalt rock dusts. Don't use bentonite, that shit clumps up when it gets wet like diatomaceous earth does

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Where do you get your gypsum?

The brew store or the garden store ?

The brew store sells powder gypsum

The garden stores around here only sell pelletized or lime and shit like that .

Il just order from the brew store. 5/lb.

Il let ya know how many cups per lb. Im guessing maybe two.

Im thinking 20gal soma sips and two plants per box .


You say one cup per cu ft.
So a little over two cups per box.

Im making Ten boxes so. 20cups
10lb

50$

Is what it is i suppose. Cannada is slackin on the easly findable amendments haha

hyroot said:

Summers are way too hot to even be outside. I can't even grow anything other than aloe and citrus. Although my blueberry plant (fruit) survived the 110-120 temps. . The rest of the year. We have best weather. All the snowbirds all over the world come here during the winter. Coachella and stage coach weeks suck . That's just because of all the tourists. Lol.

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I was just near Coachella in Moreno Beach Valley for desert Daze. It was quite the clusterfuck.

Since you’re in the desert, do you do IMO’s? I’m not in the desert, but the humidity here is too low to do IMO’s I would like to, do you suggest something else or a better way to do it?

MustangStudFarm said:

This is going to be the next thing that I research! You really sparked an interest when you addressed my problem because I have asked quite a few people about a source of micro nutrients and I really get much else than "use Mn and Zn sulfate, but make sure it's chelated". I didn't try it yet, but I heard that I can chelate it with fish hydrolysate(amino acids). Also, I am using a very generous amount of kelp, basalt, and glacial rock dust but my micros would always come back low. I am hoping that the rock dust just needs more time to break down and it will get better with age, but I have had my worst harvests when Mn and Zn were low. I would almost call it crop failure!

Anyways, I'm probably going to have to read your thread completely. I think that I'll have time this weekend to do it... I do have one question though, how would prunes and dates work for a FFJ. From what I read, you want high potassium and sugar. The dates that I have taste like caramel and I know they are high in K.

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Yes well Mn is a critical micro, it increases sugar content, chlorophyll content and the solidity of the protein bond. It improves the sugar flow back and reinforces plant respiration efficiency. it is a crucial constituent part of the enzyme hydroxylamine-reductase which generates the hydroxylamine reaction to produce ammonia, and the assimilation enzyme that performs carbon dioxide reduction during photosynthesis. Mn plays an important role in activating many reactions. I think last count was 23 known complexes of meta-enzymes that are activated by Mn in plants. Mn also plays a role in the mechanisms behind indoleacetic acid as a cell growth activator. It also support P transport and it increases the power of the plant tissues to retain water during stress. defs result in weakened growth for sure through wide-scale nutrient imbalance.
Same for Zn, necessary in DNA polymerase, it is essential part for many enzymes that act at a metabolic level (auxins/ nucleic acids) More than 30 enzymes are linked to Zn as well as around 20 metallic enzyme complexes in plants, defs of Zn result in reduced sugars, saccharose, starch, and accumulations of organic acids reducing auxin content. It also reduces by 2 to 3 times the rate of cell division, eg a def delays growth
The problems with defs is they are often a manifestation of reciprocal relations of existing minerals in solution, in the soil or plant plasma eg Compounds. EG again a lack of K will likely result also in a lack of B and we also see a reduction in the availability of P, even if these things are not deficient in the soil solution et al. On the other hand a lack of K causes a false Ca/Mg excess, causing Mg defs. Boron is linked to Copper which is linked to plant rigidity, copper contributes to Mn and Zn availability and so on, so a lack of Boron might show as a lack of Copper which might show as a lack of Mn and Zn, ergo lies the problems of all plant nutrition and why i hate def guides

Ecompost said:

Yes well Mn is a critical micro, it increases sugar content, chlorophyll content and the solidity of the protein bond.

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I have been trying to keep up with this author named Steve Solomon. He was on a podcast and he was saying stuff that I felt was directed at me. He mentioned that cannabis is very sensitive to Mn def and that there is not a good source of Mn except for Mn sulfate. He suggested to use a chelated version, but he stopped there. I pretty much had crop failure with that 1st soil test that I shown, the one low in Mn and Zn, one of my worst harvest ever and that is counting my hydro days too...
Another thing that I picked up regarding soil tests is that cannabis needs 2x the amount of K shown on soil tests. That don't sound like that big of a deal, unless you are trying to get your base saturation by the books! I decided that these soil tests are really to show you where you are messing up and will let you know about tox/def issues. Now that I know that I have a reoccurring micro def, I probably won't need to continue testing. However, I did have a test done last week that I am still unsure how to fix. I went to fix the lack of Zn, Cu, and Mn and I kind of over shot the Zn but nailed the Mn and Cu. I don't think that I will have a problem from them, but my B was very low. I'm nervous about adding borax because I keep reading that it is a very narrow margin of error, like you need 1-2ppm but 4ppm is toxic. I'm dealing with 30x 8gal pots and my tea brewer is 30gal, so I wanted to add a gallon of borax water to each pot. When I mixed the Cu, Zn, and Mn sulfate I used about 1/3cup for 240gal of soil.

The Ph is low and Na and S are high, but that is just running water through the pots. I don't have these planted BTW. I have clones in this soil but they are in quart size pots and they seem to be doing very well, like they don't even care about the B def. I feel like I should be using metric for you instead of American measurements.
Anyways, I hope Hyroot is right and I'll just start using probitiotics for trace elements instead of chasing this stuff with sulfates!

hyroot said:

start at the beginning of this thread. I have recipes through this whole thread

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I started reading the beginning of the thread and got caught up in your Youtube videos! I watched the 1st one and noticed that you had more. I get side-tracked so easily...

I don't know how deep this marketing scam goes for growing supplies, but Tad Hussey and Steve Solomon said that rock dust/kelp is inadequate for trace elements and recommended BioMin Booster 153. After talking to Tad Hussey, I felt like it was just a ploy so I bought SEA90 instead for 1/3 of the cost. @Ecompost taught me what chelated meant, and the product didn't look so appealing. It's just so hard to tell heads from tales when the "Experts" are trying their hardest to make a buck off of growers. Mixing truth with lies...

https://www.kisorganics.com/products/biomin-booster-153

hyroot said:

A fade is essentially a nutrient deficiency.

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In my experience with test results, mine has been a fade due to chlorosis from micro def but it always looked like a N def. Gardeners call it "Iron Chlorosis" and they say that it is usually from phosphorus in high levels. Sorry from rambling...

MustangStudFarm said:

I don't know how deep this marketing scam goes for growing supplies, but Tad Hussey and Steve Solomon said that rock dust/kelp is inadequate for trace elements and recommended BioMin Booster 153. After talking to Tad Hussey, I felt like it was just a ploy so I bought SEA90 instead for 1/3 of the cost. @Ecompost taught me what chelated meant, and the product didn't look so appealing. It's just so hard to tell heads from tales when the "Experts" are trying their hardest to make a buck off of growers. Mixing truth with lies...

https://www.kisorganics.com/products/biomin-booster-153

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Theres minerals in salt water and salt. I even add a little himilayan salt when making bokashi.

For bokashi i use red wheat, lab concentrate, molasses, photosynthesis plus and himilayan salt. I get plenty of micros from bokashi. Including plenty of mn.

MustangStudFarm said:

In my experience with test results, mine has been a fade due to chlorosis from micro def but it always looked like a N def. Gardeners call it "Iron Chlorosis" and they say that it is usually from phosphorus in high levels. Sorry from rambling...

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If you add charred animal bones to compost or worm bins. You will get phos solubilizing bacteria. Much cheaper than mammoth p. Lol.

MustangStudFarm said:

I started reading the beginning of the thread and got caught up in your Youtube videos! I watched the 1st one and noticed that you had more. I get side-tracked so easily...

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I'm going to start making videos again soon. Mostly ferment videos. I will do some garden videos showing my own genetics in 2019. Probably start that in February.

Last day before harvest of my genetics. They went 9 weeks.

Bermuda Breath from seed - benevolence x mendo breath f1



Highland breath 1st gen clones - benevolence x oaxacan highland gold mexican landrace

This could go probably go 70 days

hyroot said:

I'm going to start making videos again soon. Mostly ferment videos. I will do some garden videos showing my own genetics in 2019. Probably start that in February.

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Yeeeaaahh more vids !!

great thread iv learnt a lot already, im slowely moving over to this shit, never knew dolamite is useless and takes 1 year to break down ... are u sure about this @hyroot ?

I think its the magnesium that takes a year or more to become fully available. the calcium not so long and the buffer effect is sooner, else they wouldn't put it in with peat to raise ph, and they say 1-2 weeks after its been wetted.

wompaa said:

great thread iv learnt a lot already, im slowely moving over to this shit, never knew dolamite is useless and takes 1 year to break down ... are u sure about this @hyroot ?

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The useless part is very true! Why use an inferior rock dust when you could get a boost in micronutrients to go with the magnesium. Basalt and Glacial rock dusts have more going on. Dolomite is just Ca and Mg and that is pretty much it.

hyroot said:

If you add charred animal bones to compost or worm bins. You will get phos solubilizing bacteria. Much cheaper than mammoth p. Lol.

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Damn, I feel like you are giving me more homework lol... I was trying to think of creative ways to lower the amount of phosphorus in my compost and the best idea that I came up with was composting mushrooms like "Garden Giants". From what I understand, mushroom are high in phosphorus so I kind of put 2 and 2 together. I started a pure leaf compost almost exactly a year ago, but it still has a ways to go and composting mushrooms seem like a good idea anyways. The pure leaf mold is for fungi anyway. I gave away my rabbits on Craigslist for free. I wasn't impressed with the super high P #'s.

MustangStudFarm said:

I have been trying to keep up with this author named Steve Solomon. He was on a podcast and he was saying stuff that I felt was directed at me. He mentioned that cannabis is very sensitive to Mn def and that there is not a good source of Mn except for Mn sulfate. He suggested to use a chelated version, but he stopped there. I pretty much had crop failure with that 1st soil test that I shown, the one low in Mn and Zn, one of my worst harvest ever and that is counting my hydro days too...
Another thing that I picked up regarding soil tests is that cannabis needs 2x the amount of K shown on soil tests. That don't sound like that big of a deal, unless you are trying to get your base saturation by the books! I decided that these soil tests are really to show you where you are messing up and will let you know about tox/def issues. Now that I know that I have a reoccurring micro def, I probably won't need to continue testing. However, I did have a test done last week that I am still unsure how to fix. I went to fix the lack of Zn, Cu, and Mn and I kind of over shot the Zn but nailed the Mn and Cu. I don't think that I will have a problem from them, but my B was very low. I'm nervous about adding borax because I keep reading that it is a very narrow margin of error, like you need 1-2ppm but 4ppm is toxic. I'm dealing with 30x 8gal pots and my tea brewer is 30gal, so I wanted to add a gallon of borax water to each pot. When I mixed the Cu, Zn, and Mn sulfate I used about 1/3cup for 240gal of soil.
View attachment 4219246
The Ph is low and Na and S are high, but that is just running water through the pots. I don't have these planted BTW. I have clones in this soil but they are in quart size pots and they seem to be doing very well, like they don't even care about the B def. I feel like I should be using metric for you instead of American measurements.
Anyways, I hope Hyroot is right and I'll just start using probitiotics for trace elements instead of chasing this stuff with sulfates!

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The probio still needs a mineral to be present buddy, they dont pull it out of the arses. may be you might add a calcareous content so improve the pH in favour of Boron? This way when you amend it, you wont just fizz it out with acid?
have you tried just adding the Boron as a foliar? I would think about this. You might make a mineral brew to help, so anaerobic fermentation ahead of application, so introducing the microbes at the same time?
So I have a mix I use on my afalfa which uses lots of Boron, but this is essential since its for fodder which cant make its own Tryptophan, so needs to be high quality. I have a big farm so use big scales, and i am European so i use metric but you can convert it online, here you go.. scale this down to meet you need, give yourself time

Water 700L
Whey 150L
Fresh Cow Dung 100 Kilos
Molasses 20L
Stone Meal or Wood Ash 15 Kilos
Borax 20 Kilos
Brewers yeast 500grams

fermentation is min 30 days
application is 2/3L per 100L water
I add a adherent mix which is just prickly pear based, but aloe or even molasses will work here. Apply only to the above ground parts of the plant

Alternatively, i use a mix for flowering and recent fruiting plants

Water 180L
Fresh Dung 20 Kilos
Molasses 2 Kilos
Milk or Whey 2L
SRP 900 grams
Potassium Sulphate 400 grams
Borax 180 grams
Sulphocalcium brew 0.9L
vitamin E 7grams

fermentation is 30 days and method is super magro -)

Anyone who cant get the Sulphates can use wood ash and stone meal. You can also save on water by crushing stem like plant material but this is another discussion.

The supho mix is
Sulphur dust 20 Kilos
Lime 10 Kilos
bring this to boil in water for 30-45 minutes, thus forming Lime sulphur

wompaa said:

great thread iv learnt a lot already, im slowely moving over to this shit, never knew dolamite is useless and takes 1 year to break down ... are u sure about this @hyroot ?

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not if you add it to Sulphur dust water and boil it first

MustangStudFarm said:

In my experience with test results, mine has been a fade due to chlorosis from micro def but it always looked like a N def. Gardeners call it "Iron Chlorosis" and they say that it is usually from phosphorus in high levels. Sorry from rambling...

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a lack of Mn will for sure cause chlorosis...got any thermal vents near you? I saw water from hot springs being used in the Andes to replace sulphates. The water is at rest/ ambient before they use it but it was being sprayed on a wide range of crops with awesome results.

wompaa said:

great thread iv learnt a lot already, im slowely moving over to this shit, never knew dolamite is useless and takes 1 year to break down ... are u sure about this @hyroot ?

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It takes a year minimum to break down. It has the wrong ratio of mag to cal that you want. It has too much mag. The only thing dole lime is good for is keeping away snails.
You could use various rock dusts and oyster shell flour that are all soluble.