Optimal DIY setup for the 12 plant medical limit???? Put ur headz 2gether AZ<3

Philosophist

Well-Known Member
ok so, for speed and ease of movement(ill be Lsting them in veg so moving them is important) it seems like a Ebb and flow systems are a bit easier for me than a DWC.

So for most strain i can flower in 9 weeks to be safe... so im thinking i might do this:

Plant 3 plants every 3 weeks. 3 weeks in veg(being UB topped/fim'd/lst'd) 9 weeks in flwer total.
12 week total cycle.

Ill need 4x3 plant tables. What sort of system would be best?
I have seen enclosed ones, and EnB tables that use normal air pots and just sit in a large tub....is there any difference ? or preference?

I can continue to Veg in my Closet with CLFs for now.
But ill be building a tent for flowering(cat hair and dog hair is shity , i vacuum twice a day><)

Thinking 5x5 or 4x8 Is that large enough?

Is this a good start? Hydro intimidates me....so lol
 

irieie

Well-Known Member
I know intensity diminishes. Are you insinuating a 600W has the same PAR output at 1ft as a kW? If not I'm not sure what your point is.
here i will let the proffessor explain it to you as you are having a hard time:
Lighting, hands down the single most important thing you can manage to effect yields. No such thing as to much light. By managing your lights you will impact your yields more then anything you can buy in a bottle.

My lights are generally about 3 to 4 inches from the top of the canopy. HOW? Details, first I make sure all my hoods are sealed as well as can be. I use good hoods with even throws. I vent using the best fans installed correctly and UNDER WORKED. I add booster fans to prevent back flow. Air is always circulated to help cool. C02 will allow higher temps. Remember plants are like little radiators, by chilling my water I effectively cool my plants. Maintaining correct water ph helps plants to assperate and cool themself.

Light weakens very rapidly. Each foot in distance is a 50% reduction in strength, at one foot a 1000W light becomes 500w at 2 feet 250W. So if your light is 15 inches away from your girls they are only half the strength mine are. I adjust lights daily, currently working on a laser sweep that adjust lights automatically every minute. For now I use motorcycle tiedowns that make raising simple. Chains suck and those hangers that reguire no knotts aren't strong enough.

Three thing that directly effect yield are 1, strain 2, size of rootball, 3, amount of light. For those of you who don't worry much about your light hieghts I would bet you could receive 25% or higher increase in yield doing nothing more then managing your lights. Keep glass on hoods clean, and REPLACE bulbs often, mine are replaced twice a year at minimum. You think bulbs are expencive answer this, how much do you need to increase your yield to pay for a $100 bulb? 1/4 oz?

Make sure you have surfaces done in reflective material or paint. Walls, floors, equipment. Prune to allow penetration.
Completely misread my post. The auxins in regard to topping the Uncle Ben way has nothing to do with cloning or cloning gel. His way of topping is used to get 4 cola's every time at the correct stage in veg. Any other time or cut from another point results in more diversity in results. Topping a clone of course works but the hormonal change isn't the same in a clone which isn't the same age as a young plant.

Hormones in rooting clones are completely irrelevant when referring to why I top what I top and when.
here while you are at it read up on plant auxins here:
Auxins are a growth hormone produced in the meristems of plants.
Meristems are areas of plants where plant growth occurs. They are the site of repeated cell division of unspecialized cells. After division, these unspecialized cells differentiate and become specialized in relation to the function(s) they will perform. There are two types of meristems: lateral and apical.

Apical meristems are the site of primary growth in a plant, and are located at the root and shoot tips. Here you can find unspecialised cells, which follow this sequence to become a functional part of the plant:

-New unspecialised cells become available at the meristems (the site of mitosis)
-These cells become elongated and undergo vacuolation
-They become specialised (differentiated) to perform a particular function
-They then form part of a permanent tissue which performs a particular role within the plant
-The cycle continues for growth and regeneration purposes

Lateral meristems can be found growing laterally (where else?) to the plant. Lateral meristems are responsible for the thickening of the shoots and roots (structural support). This is why trees have rings....as they get older, they grow thicker. Every year a new "ring" forms around the core.

Needless to say, what we are interested in is the apical meristems, since this is where NEW root growth occurs. Now with that being said, lets get back to auxins....

Auxins are responsible in promoting cell elongation, a process that is required before differentiation of a cell. It is able to this by promoting the intake of water, increasing the elasticity of the cell to cope with the increase of water taken in by the cell. One of the most common auxins (and the one we are concerned with) is indole acetic acid (IAA).

Indole Acetic Acid affects the root and shoot tips of the plant as follows:

Shoot Tip - No matter what the concentration (of IAA), IAA promotes growth in the shoot areas of a plant. (Although higher concentrations promote growth more.)

Root Tip - High concentrations of IAA in the root tip inhibit growth, while small amounts are enough to promote growth.

Obviously we are interested in how IAA reacts in the root tip. Thus, clearly we do not want high concentrations of IAA in the roots. This would not promote faster growth.

Now, lets look at light's role in this debate. Believe it or not, light actually destorys the IAA auxins. But this only happens in substaintial amounts when there is alot of IAA to begin with. For instance, a clone (a shoot tip that has been cut), has alot of IAA at it's tip. And since the clone is so small, the amount of IAA in relation to it's entire mass is very high (if you have a 3" clone, and the top inch is the growing tip, it is filled with IAA, whereas in a full grown plant, there is much more 'mature' plant matter than growing tips). So in the case of the clone, light will destroy some of the auxins. And since the IAA auxins do not want to be destroyed, they will begin to "travel" downward. The light is what makes the IAA auxins travel to the bottom of a clone. Thus, no darkness is neede to make this happen.

And actually, it is what we want to happen. When we plant a clone, we want all of its energy to be directed into producing roots. By having the light on 24/7, we are destroying the auxins in the growing tip (while forcing them to move downwards), thus inhibiting plant growth, which allows all (or most) of the plants energy to be diverted to growing roots. And it is no coinsidense that this is where the IAA auxins happen to be headed. Since a newly cut clone has no roots to contain the IAA auxins already, the growing tip donates them in response to the constant bathing of light we give them.

So whether they know it or not, this is the real reason why many people put their clones under 24/7 lighting. If you were to give the clone a dark period, that would enable the auxins to begin to make the plant grow, thus using up valuable energy (and therefore time). However, since the roots are under soil or in a pot, having the light on 24/7 does not restrict root growth.

To sum things up, auxins are not only located or produced in the 'terminal bud', as you put it (which i'm not 100% what that is I assume you mean the shoot tips though). Auxins are located everywhere in a plant. But the ones that promote growth, the IAA auxins, are found (and produced) in the root tips AND shoot tips. So no 'travelling' of auxins is needed to promote faster root growth. After the donation of initial IAA auxins from the tip, the roots begin to manufacture their own IAA, thus allowing the shoot tip to keep its share of IAA, and begin to grow.

Whew, what a mouthful. I hope this helps more than hurts . Feel free to ask anymore questions...hopefully I (or someone) will be able to answer
 

MasterS

Well-Known Member
You are off to a much better start than I was when I did my first grow in Spring 2005 haha. I jumped into hydro so ignorant the current me can't believe the plant survived! It was a DWC grow, no pH testing, playing with GH nutrients like a mad scientist, 150W HPS haha. Truthfully this plant can take a freaking beating. I learned that so many methods of growing exist because so many people are different external factors.

I only recommend finding what you feel works best with what you'll enjoy and get good at it ^_^

I use EBB/Flow with limited plant interaction.
I have friends that use, SoG, ScROG, DWC, Ebb/Grow, this one freak who does super LST ( I mean he will veg forever getting his plant to grow like a labyrinth of craziness)

Personally, I will retire with aquaponics. I just don't have a stable living situation. (Moving between Flagstaff and Phoenix doesn't help that haha)
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
I would recommend flood and drain. Easy to diy and great yeild. Easy on the pockets and on your hands. Later

He's probably right something easy like 1 or 2 DWC , and a Ebb & Flow ( flood and drain ) set up There are lots of DIY Flood and drain set ups you can follow on the web.Like my set up is Ebb and Flow flood table with a 30 gal reservoir under the tray. I converted it into a top drip recirculating . The only maintenance is cleaning out the reservoir once a week. Clean the tray every few weeks. Thats pretty much it my shit is on timers so I really dont do any work but once every 7 days.
 

MasterS

Well-Known Member
"here i will let the proffessor explain it to you as you are having a hard time:"

Post something condescending again and you are blocked. It isn't appreciated. Also, don't post another person's information without a source.

Back to his information. Good read and information. What of it? You fail to properly associate with what I said and the information in your post. Uncle Ben's topping has nothing to do with cutting clones and auxins forming roots. It is only to give consistent 4 cola growth. Nothing to do with cloning.

http://riddlem3.com/index.php/topic,1106.0.html
 

IVIars

Active Member
For me, simple is coco in smartpots. Hand watering and interacting with the plants alot. Imo the more interaction the better. You'll be on top of any pests or deficiencies. I have topped and LST'd clones with no problems. I also don't like to run a perpetual harvest since I cut te co2 levels towards the end of flower.

I don't think PAR output is an accurate way to measure how the plant will react to the light.
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
ok so, for speed and ease of movement(ill be Lsting them in veg so moving them is important) it seems like a Ebb and flow systems are a bit easier for me than a DWC.

So for most strain i can flower in 9 weeks to be safe... so im thinking i might do this:

Plant 3 plants every 3 weeks. 3 weeks in veg(being UB topped/fim'd/lst'd) 9 weeks in flwer total.
12 week total cycle.

Ill need 4x3 plant tables. What sort of system would be best?
I have seen enclosed ones, and EnB tables that use normal air pots and just sit in a large tub....is there any difference ? or preference?

I can continue to Veg in my Closet with CLFs for now.
But ill be building a tent for flowering(cat hair and dog hair is shity , i vacuum twice a day><)

Thinking 5x5 or 4x8 Is that large enough?

Is this a good start? Hydro intimidates me....so lol

DWC is mass time consuming unless you have a recirculating however your veg growth will kill all other veg growths. I have 11 plants in my 3' x 3' // I have 11 plants in 1.25 gallon air pots.
Hydro isnt hard just time consuming. I think you should start out small go for something like 3-5 plants. Learn how to read your plants ( of course ask questions here too ) and you will be fine.
Which ever one you start out with you will end up doing both at some point. Hell I started out a hydro a few years back and now I want to run some soil too. This hobby never ends.
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
dwc for speed and girth they just speak for them selves after this soil grow i'll go back to dwc buckets
Hell yeah I used to laugh at my buddies soil grow @ 4 weeks compared to my DWC buckets..veg dwc for 4 weeks I kid you not you will grow a fat bush if not a mini tree. And please dont think I'm clowning on soil I seen some amazing soil grows and love soil grown MJ. Just speaking on experience. just saying you can definitely shorten veg time with DWC, that is a fact.
 

combatdoc0315

Active Member
I found a great link to a DIY DWC system.. Has all info to build it, and what you need and where to get it etc.. Also the author put in what nutes he uses and info about them..
Each bucket built for 17.33$ and veg time cut in half as soil grown plant is pretty interesting..

Check it out and I am definitely interested in what you all think about it, so please leave any feedback...positive, negative or suggestions to make it better..

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f95/diy-standalone-dwc-bucket-2551/
 

swaggersDlite

Well-Known Member
Hell yeah I used to laugh at my buddies soil grow @ 4 weeks compared to my DWC buckets..veg dwc for 4 weeks I kid you not you will grow a fat bush if not a mini tree. And please dont think I'm clowning on soil I seen some amazing soil grows and love soil grown MJ. Just speaking on experience. just saying you can definitely shorten veg time with DWC, that is a fact.
Thats why always try and do a long vegg when im in soil .when i start to flower i have clones already vegging for the next grow only way i can get huge yield from soil inside.
 

Philosophist

Well-Known Member
What is the Veg time difference between Eb and flow and DWC?

Im looking at making a RDWC, or ebb and flow at this point. Ill probably always do a LARGE soil scrog plant, just to have a big bushy thing to play with and stuff.
But the rest will be Hydro for sure after this go round....
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
What is the Veg time difference between Eb and flow and DWC?

Im looking at making a RDWC, or ebb and flow at this point. Ill probably always do a LARGE soil scrog plant, just to have a big bushy thing to play with and stuff.
But the rest will be Hydro for sure after this go round....
Ebb and flow you should be good to go in 4 weeks if you want. DWC will always outgrow everything in veg.. The roots sitting in that water with oxygen ( air stones ) being blasted at them makes for quick veg times.
 

jayco420

Active Member
I am stuck between a 1 month harvest rotation or keeping 1-3 moms and 6-8 plants in a single room harvest every 3-4 months. So maybe 3 RDWC and moms in another DWC.
 

irieie

Well-Known Member
"here i will let the proffessor explain it to you as you are having a hard time:"

Post something condescending again and you are blocked. It isn't appreciated. Also, don't post another person's information without a source.

Back to his information. Good read and information. What of it? You fail to properly associate with what I said and the information in your post. Uncle Ben's topping has nothing to do with cutting clones and auxins forming roots. It is only to give consistent 4 cola growth. Nothing to do with cloning.

http://riddlem3.com/index.php/topic,1106.0.html
fucking excuse me? you are blocked? are you threatening to block me because you are a stupid piece of shit who talks a big game but cant back up shit. who the fuck are you? think your gonna block me go fuck your self. you talk all this shit and you dont show anything for it. i dont need to explain shit to you are are not shit. go fuck yourself.
 

jayco420

Active Member
I think us arizonans are born agresive. Lol we can talk shit with the best of them. Not directed at u irieie just all of us we can beat a dead horse and get it to walk.
 

irieie

Well-Known Member
I think us arizonans are born agresive. Lol we can talk shit with the best of them. Not directed at u irieie just all of us we can beat a dead horse and get it to walk.
i dont mind, i talk a lot of shit just like this asshole MasterS the only difference is that i back up my statements with pics of my results. this guy has yet to back up shit. i am sick of him spouting his garbage that he learned reading other peoples shit. lets see some of his finished product or a flowering plant past week six and then everyone can see whether this guy is full of shit or not. cmon masterS try and get me banned.
 

Philosophist

Well-Known Member
Ok so if DWC vegges faster does it Flower faster too?

If the only thing that makes DWC "bad" is teh extra work i might try that, the improved performance intreigs me;P

Eb or DWC..maybe ill flip a coin
 

combatdoc0315

Active Member
I was all about soil until I read how easy it is to make a DWC.. I mean, the fact of just needing to check on them now and then and changing water and nutes weekly sounds not bad at all. From what I have been reading about DWC, is looks like it takes about half the time in all cycles. And from the pics and threads that I have been reading, you get much better yields too. I think I am definitely building a DWC for my first setup.
 
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