One Pink Lemonade - no-till cycle 7 in 4 foot diameter pot, 5x5 tent

Northwood said:

Good Lord, that's quite a diversified cover crop! lol

I didn't place anything "hot" (meaning having a lot of available nutrients) in my initial soil mix, except what was in the Pro-mix Organic Herb and Vegetable mix already. I didn't do any layering. For minerals, I did add azomite (the worms need their grit!), and a kilogram or so of "calcium" bentonite, along with some extra perlite (course kind). Yeah I know perlite will crumble in years, but any drainage addition is really only temporary until you build your soil structure anyway. That doesn't happen overnight though. I'm just starting to make progress on that now. However I've had no drainage issues. Water still pools pretty quickly at the bottom of my tent if I give it a bit too much water than it can handle at once.

What you need to be thinking of during your first grow in the soil is your second grow. Once those seeds go in there, anything else you add to your soil after that in at least my style of no-till will likely only benefit that plant late in flower, or more likely sometime in the next grow cycle. I would highly recommend you go to your nearest animal feed store and buy a sack of alfalfa pellets, and add that into your initial soil mix. I wouldn't exceed 3% though, but it's a great inoculant and will also supply all the N you need for your first cycle.

Cannabis leaves don't really represent a huge percentage of the entire plant's biomass. But yeah, I just drop every leaf or pruning back in the pot for cycling, usually just over my hay/straw mulch throughout most of my grow. The roots and stems of your old plants will really only be available to the cycle after the one you add them too (cycle #3). Getting through the first 2 cycles is hardest, but after that the system takes care of itself with nothing for you to do except crazy stupid experiments like trying to grow a single plant to fill a 5X5 tent. Lol

Edit: I just thought of an analogy to no-till growing this way. It's like reloading ammo using a Dillon XL650 with case feeder. There are 5 stations in the press, and so you need to repeat the place bullet, and pull lever 5 full times before the first finished 9mm round finally drops out. But now that all stations are filled, you only need to press and place a bullet once for every stroke of that handle, making 1000 rounds reloaded per hour easily obtainable. No-till is kinda like that.

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Gardenator said:

what kind of inputs are you amending or top dressing into your no till bed? Could i take and add all my veggie scraps and fruit waste and use this stuff for top dress inputs as well? Can i add some decomposing maple leaves from my compost

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Northwood said:

It's officially "lucky" 13th day since flip (F13). This plant did not stretch, like ... at all. WTF? All the nodes in the new growth are exactly the same distance apart as when it was in the middle of veg. Anyway if I had known that I would have vegged her another week until all the tops reached the second scrog net. Maybe I'm giving her too much light, or perhaps not enough red even with the extra 3000k light bulbs in there.

The good news is that she's definitely a she. lol No male parts anywhere in sight, and she just started transitioning a couple days ago. At this rate within another 2 days it should reach that cute "fluffy" looking stage with all the growing parts covered in pistils sticking out every which way. It's pretty fast, so maybe the seed company's description of this being an 8 week strain is accurate. We shall see.

So the idea is/was to get a solid space of fan leaves without any growing tips between the 2 scrog nets, and only allow flowers to form above the second scrog. That way I can defoliate all the fans where flowering side nodes appear so that the length of the colas are well-lighted, while having a solid mass of green fan leaves below them (between the two scrog nets) to power the cola development. My first day of above-the-nets defoliation was yesterday, so things are still recovering this morning:

View attachment 4761178

The stalk on this girl is now as big as my last season's outdoor plants.

View attachment 4761181

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Northwood said:

It's officially "lucky" 13th day since flip (F13). This plant did not stretch, like ... at all. WTF? All the nodes in the new growth are exactly the same distance apart as when it was in the middle of veg. Anyway if I had known that I would have vegged her another week until all the tops reached the second scrog net. Maybe I'm giving her too much light, or perhaps not enough red even with the extra 3000k light bulbs in there.

The good news is that she's definitely a she. lol No male parts anywhere in sight, and she just started transitioning a couple days ago. At this rate within another 2 days it should reach that cute "fluffy" looking stage with all the growing parts covered in pistils sticking out every which way. It's pretty fast, so maybe the seed company's description of this being an 8 week strain is accurate. We shall see.

So the idea is/was to get a solid space of fan leaves without any growing tips between the 2 scrog nets, and only allow flowers to form above the second scrog. That way I can defoliate all the fans where flowering side nodes appear so that the length of the colas are well-lighted, while having a solid mass of green fan leaves below them (between the two scrog nets) to power the cola development. My first day of above-the-nets defoliation was yesterday, so things are still recovering this morning:

View attachment 4761178

The stalk on this girl is now as big as my last season's outdoor plants.

View attachment 4761181

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JustBlazin said:

wow, that's a serious talk, it's looking awsome.
too bad it didn't stretch up further, but i bet the buds will be super dense on that squat pig.
how long did you end up vegging for?

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Northwood said:

It's officially "lucky" 13th day since flip (F13). This plant did not stretch, like ... at all. WTF? All the nodes in the new growth are exactly the same distance apart as when it was in the middle of veg. Anyway if I had known that I would have vegged her another week until all the tops reached the second scrog net. Maybe I'm giving her too much light, or perhaps not enough red even with the extra 3000k light bulbs in there.

The good news is that she's definitely a she. lol No male parts anywhere in sight, and she just started transitioning a couple days ago. At this rate within another 2 days it should reach that cute "fluffy" looking stage with all the growing parts covered in pistils sticking out every which way. It's pretty fast, so maybe the seed company's description of this being an 8 week strain is accurate. We shall see.

So the idea is/was to get a solid space of fan leaves without any growing tips between the 2 scrog nets, and only allow flowers to form above the second scrog. That way I can defoliate all the fans where flowering side nodes appear so that the length of the colas are well-lighted, while having a solid mass of green fan leaves below them (between the two scrog nets) to power the cola development. My first day of above-the-nets defoliation was yesterday, so things are still recovering this morning:

View attachment 4761178

The stalk on this girl is now as big as my last season's outdoor plants.

View attachment 4761181

Click to expand...

Northwood said:

Male parts at week 3 are a bit questionable but no matter how great your experience is, late flower bananas are not super unusual regardless of experience and often due to genetics. The original Blueberry strain for me often grew them in week 7 or later. At that stage they don't really do any harm at least.

Guess what I found today? So I have those little bamboo poles stuck into the soil around the edge of my pot to assist as LST anchors and to hold up the cloth sides of the pot. Well today I was tying down more branches, when the top-half of the bamboo stake literally slipped out of the soil from being rotted out. I had to replace 3 of them today, and left the bottom parts of the broken off ones in the soil. I don't know why, but it surprised me that the bamboo wood was gone (eaten) already. But they've been in there for about 6 of the 7 cycles now.

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Gardenator said:

I meant to ask you about this issue with the bamboo poles in your no till bed... i havent ever had any issues with bamboo before but wasnt doing no till and id soak and wash in bleach after each cycle allowing em to dry out before ever sticking em in the pot again. anyways i have heard some negative feedback from a few growmies and read some similar feedback online that people were having mold issues from not washing the poles and keeping them in the pots or just continuously keeping them wet. The hallow inside the bamboo poles was actually growing mold inside the poles which was then infecting the soil and plant there after... now this really being a sanitation/contamination issue resulting from not properly maintaining the poles each cycle i was wondering if you have had a look inside the hallow of the bamboo pole to see if mold caused the rot? Also it seems that the ecosystem in your pot did well to prevent infection or contamination of any kind if the pole was moldy inside the hallow. Id imagine this is a prime example of how that natural ecosystem protects itself from disease, sickness, and pests really efficiently, would you agree with that?
I only ask because i was going to use bamboo in my bed to train with and didnt know if i should leave em or would my current cleaning method be detrimental to my no till bed that i am now using? Thanks in advance for any insight on this one it is appreciated.

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Gardenator said:

I meant to ask you about this issue with the bamboo poles in your no till bed... i havent ever had any issues with bamboo before but wasnt doing no till and id soak and wash in bleach after each cycle allowing em to dry out before ever sticking em in the pot again. anyways i have heard some negative feedback from a few growmies and read some similar feedback online that people were having mold issues from not washing the poles and keeping them in the pots or just continuously keeping them wet. The hallow inside the bamboo poles was actually growing mold inside the poles which was then infecting the soil and plant there after... now this really being a sanitation/contamination issue resulting from not properly maintaining the poles each cycle i was wondering if you have had a look inside the hallow of the bamboo pole to see if mold caused the rot? Also it seems that the ecosystem in your pot did well to prevent infection or contamination of any kind if the pole was moldy inside the hallow. Id imagine this is a prime example of how that natural ecosystem protects itself from disease, sickness, and pests really efficiently, would you agree with that?
I only ask because i was going to use bamboo in my bed to train with and didnt know if i should leave em or would my current cleaning method be detrimental to my no till bed that i am now using? Thanks in advance for any insight on this one it is appreciated.

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Gardenator said:

I meant to ask you about this issue with the bamboo poles in your no till bed... i havent ever had any issues with bamboo before but wasnt doing no till and id soak and wash in bleach after each cycle allowing em to dry out before ever sticking em in the pot again. anyways i have heard some negative feedback from a few growmies and read some similar feedback online that people were having mold issues from not washing the poles and keeping them in the pots or just continuously keeping them wet. The hallow inside the bamboo poles was actually growing mold inside the poles which was then infecting the soil and plant there after... now this really being a sanitation/contamination issue resulting from not properly maintaining the poles each cycle i was wondering if you have had a look inside the hallow of the bamboo pole to see if mold caused the rot? Also it seems that the ecosystem in your pot did well to prevent infection or contamination of any kind if the pole was moldy inside the hallow. Id imagine this is a prime example of how that natural ecosystem protects itself from disease, sickness, and pests really efficiently, would you agree with that?
I only ask because i was going to use bamboo in my bed to train with and didnt know if i should leave em or would my current cleaning method be detrimental to my no till bed that i am now using? Thanks in advance for any insight on this one it is appreciated.

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Northwood said:

I'm a little surprised that pathogenic fungi that attack living tissue lives in the sealed chambers of dead bamboo. Would you know which specific species of fungi that's introduced to your soil by placing a bamboo pole in it? I do know that if I were stranded on a deserted island, I'd build my raft with bamboo poles rather than coconut trunks, unless the goal is to drown or be eaten by sharks. lol

I'm not sure what you mean by mold, but most folks identify any mass of hyphae (mycelium) that form small fruiting bodies "mold" while the ones with larger fruiting bodies are called "mushrooms". The term "mold" doesn't represent a taxonomic classification, and frankly I wish people would stop using the term and just name whatever species of fungi they're talking about! lol

For example, the hated pathogen we call "powdery mildew" is a species of fungi that's a member of Ascomycota. It forms very small fruiting bodies that release spores. People around here call that a "mold". Another species that's a member of Ascomycota forms larger fruiting bodies, and it is one of my favorite eating fungi members of all time. We call these "morel mushrooms". Yeah they're kinfolk. Surprised yet?

Now take our familiar black spored bread mold. It's not an Ascomycota, but instead belongs to the phylum Mucoromycota to which most zygote fungi belong. Like most of what people call mold, the vast majority of species belonging to this phylum are saprotrophic, meaning they break down dead biomass and are not pathogenic.

I sincerely hope I have at least a several hundred different species of "mold" in my soil. Not only would my pot be overflowing with undigested organic material like lignin, but without "mold" belonging to Glomeromycota my plants wouldn't be growing well if at all because they form symbiotic associations internally with roots that we also call mycorrhiza.

The fact that little bamboo poles only last half a dozen grow cycles stuck in my soil is a good thing. It means the biology is working. The vast majority of fungi that attack dead material (saprotrophic) will not eat your plants (pathogenic).

Where did you read about the dangers of bamboo? It sounds like something from a website that might be trying to sell you something because I've dug up nothing on the subject after a few quick searches as far as scientific publications go. If you can find it again, could you paste a link?

* Edited for numerous spelling errors.

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Gardenator said:

Could the anerobic conditions of the inside of the bamboo pole shoved into the soil form the pathogenic fungi?

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Northwood said:

All fungi are aerobes, except for maybe some kinds that live in the digestive system of some animals. If their fungi was pathogenic and attacked their plants, maybe it was Botrytis. And maybe it was just coincidence they had bamboo poles in the pot and they were decaying. Botrytis cinerea is light gray while growing, but darkens as it gets old and yukky. If that's the case, it was likely introduced from the air in the grow tent. Chances are, you're breathing a few of their spores right now because they're everywhere. The way to prevent it from attacking your buds is to ensure environmental conditions in your tent aren't to their liking. In other words, keep the humidity at least below 60% if you can in later flower (even lower is safer), and use a fan blowing some air around your canopy for air circulation.

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Gardenator said:

No product was being sold around the content i was reading

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Northwood said:

@Gardenator I may think of fungi differently than most and don't freak out at the sight of mycelium because mycology was my concentration of study during graduate school in biology. My thesis was how genetics interacted with environmental pressures to influence the production of certain secondary metabolites by what you would call "mold". In grade 9 I was doing agar tube slopes the old fashioned way to isolate them in my basement bedroom. Now grade 9 kids just play xbox down there. lol

I graduated a long time ago however, so my studies during that time are of limited usefulness today. But if you're wondering, that's why my interest is still in the field (as well as basic modern soil science that I'm still learning) and why I have my own laminar flow hood at home and cultivate many species mushrooms from time-to-time.

I do however agree that cross contamination between grows could be an issue if you suffered a serious pathogenic invasion in your previous grow. That means not reusing your bamboo poles. It also means not reusing your soil. In fact, I'd throw everything out including the fabric pot, then wipe down all the tent surfaces with bleach Then I'd close up the tent with the lights (off) still inside, and nuke it with sulphur dioxide in order to ensure I got everything. I'd also clean up the room my tent was in.

This is one reason why I'm so paranoid of introducing bad stuff. If I'm outdoors in the backyard vegetable garden, I do not visit my plants that day again unless I take a shower and have fresh change of clothes. If a house plant downstairs ever gets spider mites or any other pest or pathogen issues, it gets put outside. I do not lets pets that go outdoors into the same room where my tent is in. I do not allow anyone except those in my household to enter the room where my tent is, because I don't know where they have been. I don't take chances with contamination. This is your #1 defence.

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Gardenator said:

i fucking hate bugs lol

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Northwood said:

Well as a biologist (and really just a person) I love "bugs"! I've loved them all my life. They are just animals, like any other, trying to live out their lives and raise their families. Apart from those who would eat your cannabis plants, what do you have against them exactly? I hope this isn't a racist issue! LOL *kidding*

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