OMG - They're saying we'll poison children and drive stoned now!

veggiegardener said:

Maybe you found the language exempting my 300 sq. ft grow?

Nobody here has posted it, and I've read every reference to such language but never found it.

Therefore, I voted NO.

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You've been shown MANY times the exact fucking wording of prop 19, where it specifically states, IN WRITING, that a specific section (3 of them!!!) did not apply to 215 patients.

For you to sit here today, and claim nobody ever posted any such thing is outright bull shit. That is proof alone, to me, that you have other motives for voting no. Why else would you continue to deny what has been cited in numerous responses to your claims that 19 would take away your 215 rights.

300 square feet? Are you fucking kidding me? And that is a personal medical grow?

How dare you call someone lazy for not going to a Dr and lying about a condition to get a fucking card. It's your attitude and the attitude of other huge growers that benefit off of 215 that piss me off. Don't even try to tell me that your spouse can personally consume a harvest from a 300 square foot garden. How much are dispensaries paying you for "surpluss"?

you have a 300 square foot garden and would deny those that won't lie to a Dr a 25' foot garden? You are a real winner

It does seem to be quite an arguable subject, on just where the dangers lie and all that lot, but i'm certain that like alcohol, there should be a scale. As you say VG, after a couple tokes, it'll wear off and i'll know i'm still effected, but can operate in life as normal, but turn that into a full joint and it's an extremely different sitaution. Until there is this scale, people need common sense, as i've said, far too many forum users defend toking as they drive to the hilt, it doesn't matter that they can drive, they are not the majority, just 1 person, a lot of people will be effected differently so for safeties sake, some kind of restrictipons need to come into place i think. It would be akin to a tank of an NFL player downing a bottle of wine as if it were candy, and getting into his car sober as a bird. He'd still be way over the technical limit but would argue he is absolutely fine to drive. The limit can not be made on one persons tolerance.

But it is a tricky one, too little and you're just allowing potential accidents to happen, too much and you're just pissing off innocent people who did not deserve a DUI

I believe the public wants to see what responsible adult marijuana usage looks like, they don't know if it can exist side by side in their picture of the value and culture they want to preserve.

they need good info but the media probably has their hands tied...
can't tell people about how much they're spending, and how it's going to escallate
no one can even suggest ending the war on drugs completely, just to spot the deaths in Mexico (we are somewhat responsible, but people's heads are so far from that kind of strategy, given the spin we're all experiencing)

we could do something about the deaths in Mexico by stopping the war on drugs - maybe that's the next ballot measure we should collect sig's for?

tip top toker said:

....The limit can not be made on one persons tolerance. ....

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I would suggest that testing how impaired someone really is is the ultimate judgement - can they do the work? that's really all i need to know - if you can't walk a straight line backwards while alternately touching fingers to nose you get to wait a while, or something, but it should be a public health issue, not a criminal one, period. stop the madness.

Serapis said:

You've been shown MANY times the exact fucking wording of prop 19, where it specifically states, IN WRITING, that a specific section (3 of them!!!) did not apply to 215 patients.

For you to sit here today, and claim nobody ever posted any such thing is outright bull shit. That is proof alone, to me, that you have other motives for voting no. Why else would you continue to deny what has been cited in numerous responses to your claims that 19 would take away your 215 rights.

300 square feet? Are you fucking kidding me? And that is a personal medical grow?

How dare you call someone lazy for not going to a Dr and lying about a condition to get a fucking card. It's your attitude and the attitude of other huge growers that benefit off of 215 that piss me off. Don't even try to tell me that your spouse can personally consume a harvest from a 300 square foot garden. How much are dispensaries paying you for "surpluss"?

you have a 300 square foot garden and would deny those that won't lie to a Dr a 25' foot garden? You are a real winner

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You're inability to see why I voted no convinces me that I took the right course.

You'd watch my wife die, happily burning your "legal" joint.

Thanks for confirming my opinion.

You never proved that medical grows are exempt.

All you dide was assure me they are.

Nothing in P19 confirms that.

If it is there, post the exact text, because I'm here to tell you, the language isn't there.

Only you can prove otherwise.

Not my job.

veggiegardener said:

You're inability to see why I voted no convinces me that I took the right course.

You'd watch my wife die, happily burning your "legal" joint.

Thanks for confirming my opinion.

You never proved that medical grows are exempt.

All you dide was assure me they are.

Nothing in P19 confirms that.

If it is there, post the exact text, because I'm here to tell you, the language isn't there.

Only you can prove otherwise.

Not my job.

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This again? Look. Where does it say that prop 215 is specifically removed?


To original topic:

I can think of a lot more harmful things than pot that children and drivers can -and are- exposed to. I accidentally drank beer when I was 5.

VWFringe said:

I would suggest that testing how impaired someone really is is the ultimate judgement - can they do the work? that's really all i need to know - if you can't walk a straight line backwards while alternately touching fingers to nose you get to wait a while, or something, but it should be a public health issue, not a criminal one, period. stop the madness.

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I do very much like the idea of sobriety tests alongside a brethaliser. Think you're right on that.

And 300 square feet for one medical patient, wow, sounds like someone isn't making effective use of their space

tip top toker said:

I do very much like the idea of sobriety tests alongside a brethaliser. Think you're right on that.

And 300 square feet for one medical patient, wow, sounds like someone isn't making effective use of their space

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That space provides for four heavy users. Take a look at my grow thread, and then remember you've never trimmed a pound of buds.

We consume everything I produce, whether, buds, hash, or butter.

Maybe a little research would improve your understanding of cultivation.

Lesson #1: Growing a wide variety of strains allows patients to switch regularly to maintain effect. Experienced tokers understand that smoking a single variety leads to a tolerance that reduces beneficial effects.

I grew twelve varieties, this year.

Some are not big producers but are valuable for medical purposes.

my 23 square foot lean-to greenhouse yielded only 3.5 oz.
(the sun moved - 4 hrs day, and powdery mildew cut yield by 20-30% otherwise)

only way that size would do anyone for a year is by doing multiple harvests using light dep.

let's start bitchin' about the police and district attorney's offices purposely mis-leading the public, anyone?

we watch TV, and we sympathize or react, but nothing happens, so we are part of their programming, the part that only has to sit there, plugged into the Matrix, which makes us feel better as we toil at our jobs, because this is just a big ant farm, and they want us to feel better while we're working, and not rock the vote, because they know that only the people who are old and make a lot of money vote, and they only care about protecting their slice, but we can vote and must vote and march and protest to get rid of this stupid war on drugs and this stupid prohibition on marijuana....so many people in the government come down on the poor fool who's caught, and they all get paid, so we the people must wrest it from their clammy hands.

but how do we stop them from telling lies about us?

when the police went on TV and said there was a potential public health hazzard due to mis-labeled marijuana edibles, they gave the clear indication once again that edibles are bad, but some people need them, and those patients are adults who do not leave their medication just lying around to get mixed into children's candy - do we need to answer back, or let it ride?

i'm thinking we have to answer back somehow, what do you think?

By now, there are few Americans that don't know that the police are full of shit, regarding pot.

Those that believe their BS believed it long before 215. They're the Mormons, evangelical Christians and far Right Wingers that either look forward to the end of the world, or controlling the peons.

Either way, they should be responded to, clearly and concisely. It is best to make very clear that such silly opinions as theirs are beneath notice by those who actually think.

Obviously, the members of the groups mentioned don't think, or they wouldn't be members of those groups.

gupp said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRyLbsW3wZE&feature=player_embedded#at=22

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I saw that, a couple times, Friday night. Cracked me UP!

Maher must have told him not to hand it to HIM, before the show.

Looked like a small cone joint, to me.

He looked shit faced when he went out there.

LOL!!!

Hmmm...

Memories suddenly flooded in regarding "Smoke Ins" in my youth.

Maybe it is just time to forget about the DEA and FCC and the rest.

Just ignore them, regarding Cannabis.

If we all got serious about our civic duty, we'd attend trials and protests. Politicians start noticing when their constituents start throwing rocks at police cars.

The government still grossly underestimates our numbers.

I believe there are about 80 million users of Cannabis in this country, assuming a minimum usage of once a week.

THAT is a voting block, or an army....

veggiegardener said:

Hmmm...

Memories suddenly flooded in regarding "Smoke Ins" in my youth.

Maybe it is just time to forget about the DEA and FCC and the rest.

Just ignore them, regarding Cannabis.

If we all got serious about our civic duty, we'd attend trials and protests. Politicians start noticing when their constituents start throwing rocks at police cars.
.

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i wouldnt recomend this. maybe there are a ton of pot heads....its a voting bloc, not a military junta, or a cartel, or anything else.

It's your civic duty to vote. Acting violently will not win hearts and minds.

I'd rather not see violence, but I've seen violent acts that led to rapid change, when the powers that be were unaware of, or ignored a problem's severity.

One instance involved a group of sheriff's deputies that had taken it upon themselves to abuse younger drivers. One of these officers was found one freezing night, thoroughly beaten up, naked, and handcuffed to his patrol car. The ensuing investigation got that officer fired and several others were punished.

When the justice system becomes unresponsive, something should be done.

One thing that we must do is keep the debate alive.

In truth, people in power are only as good as they're forced to be.

veggiegardener said:

I'd rather not see violence, but I've seen violent acts that led to rapid change, when the powers that be were unaware of, or ignored a problem's severity.

One instance involved a group of sheriff's deputies that had taken it upon themselves to abuse younger drivers. One of these officers was found one freezing night, thoroughly beaten up, naked, and handcuffed to his patrol car. The ensuing investigation got that officer fired and several others were punished.

When the justice system becomes unresponsive, something should be done.

One thing that we must do is keep the debate alive.

In truth, people in power are only as good as they're forced to be.

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The justice "system" that you speak of is actually just a group of people-there are no machines making decisions or anything.

It seems like the situation you mention could have been dealt with better through legal methods- the end result would appear to have been the same, but without violence.

They're people just like you or me, it should not have come down to that. We are all citizens....we shouldn't ever break it down into "them vs us".

gupp said:

The justice "system" that you speak of is actually just a group of people-there are no machines making decisions or anything.

It seems like the situation you mention could have been dealt with better through legal methods- the end result would appear to have been the same, but without violence.

They're people just like you or me, it should not have come down to that. We are all citizens....we shouldn't ever break it down into "them vs us".

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Tell that to the Jews when the Brown Shirts came around.

The justice system is broke.

One thing I left out of my little story were the numerous complaints ignored by the Sheriff and County supervisors.

They tried to sweep it under the rug.

Things changed when they realized the issue wasn't going to go away.

Most cops(especially those that are promoted) are thugs, and to earn my respect, will have to prove otherwise.

Serapis said:

And you are now associated with those ads. I hope 19 does fail. Then I hope that California authorities realize the huge abuse taking place under 215 growers and they shut them down. Opppssss, would that piss off the smoking anti 19 peeps? A person with allergies should not be permitted a 99 plant grow. That is just plain ridiculous. If 19 fails, 215 wins as the most abused compassionate use law. That is the ONLY reason a stoner would vote no, because of misbeliefs held that their profit machine will dry up. Pretty sad...

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who are "they" and where is the "abuse"?

seems "they" is "you". you are the only one running around screaming abuse to 215. everybody else just calls their DR. it's ok, i was scared at first myself.

so 48% of californians sell pot, eh?

veggiegardener said:

Maybe you found the language exempting my 300 sq. ft grow?

Nobody here has posted it, and I've read every reference to such language but never found it.

Therefore, I voted NO.

You don't give a shit about my family, so you are the hypocrite. You don't get the fact that my wife CANNOT do without her meds, even for a day.

P19 carries the real possibility that I would be limited to 25 sq. ft.

In good faith I voted no, because no one of your ilk could show me otherwise.

I was all for legalization, but not at the price of you getting a "legal" bag, while my spouse suffers.

Fuck you, and your inability to accept that P19 is badly written, and unacceptable to many in the (already legal) medical community.

And damn you for being too lazy to go get a medical recommendation.

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Ouch! I have my medical marijuana card - I've had it for 6 years. Yes prop 19 is poorly written - as was 215. That's why SB420 was introduced to correct those imperfections. Why can't this also be done with prop 19? It's not perfect, but let's get it passed and work the rest out?

You obviously are a very intelligent individual. I've read prop 19 over and over again and I just can't find anywhere where this proposition will cancel out 215. So I ask (and this is with all respect - really), can you help me find what you see in 19 that I don't.

SB420 was over ruled because once a prop is passed it CAN'T be changed without voter approval.

prop 19 can NOT be fixed later. it is what it is.