Old age or ph issue?

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
does this look like a plant 9 weeks in flower or a ph problem? Checked my meter it's on the money. Feeding at 950ppm plus some flower nutes at 100ppm and calmag in soiless medium. Ph at 6.5. I've had this issue before but it was a bad meter so my meter was reading low. I want to try and get another week on her before I chop. Just starting to turn Amber. image.jpegimage.jpeg image.jpeg
 

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coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't worry at this point in the game. But for future reference soilless mediums PH should be like hydro. 5.5-6.2ish and it wants to be varied within that scale or you miss out on some nutrient uptake. 6.5 your making it harder to uptake Phosphorous, zinc and copper amongst others.
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't worry at this point in the game. But for future reference soilless mediums PH should be like hydro. 5.5-6.2ish and it wants to be varied within that scale or you miss out on some nutrient uptake. 6.5 your making it harder to uptake Phosphorous, zinc and copper amongst others.
I've had others that have said ph like you would for soil. It's promix hp. So pretty much all peat and perilite. It always does good until the final stretch.
 

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
you're overferting them. when you overfert, correcting your pH is irrelevant because you still kill your plants will excessive fert. 950+100 doesn't make sense as usually people switch the grow fert for the bloom fert when they flower. that much in soilless is probably too high because the fert gets trapped in the mix. if you feed every time you water, or close to that, you overfert. that ppm level is really for hydro where the dilution rate is higher as there's no soil.
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
you're overferting them. when you overfert, correcting your pH is irrelevant because you still kill your plants will excessive fert. 950+100 doesn't make sense as usually people switch the grow fert for the bloom fert when they flower. that much in soilless is probably too high because the fert gets trapped in the mix. if you feed every time you water, or close to that, you overfert. that ppm level is really for hydro where the dilution rate is higher as there's no soil.
Im using Hydroponics Research Veg and bloom...You continue using it in flower and add Size which is a bloom nute. I forgot to mention that. Im in soiless so I HAVE to feed everytime. Ive tried less ppm and it starves them. As far as I know peat really doesnt retain any nutes.
 

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
you have yellowing leaf tips on pretty much every leaf while the rest of the leaf is pretty green. this kind color development usually means over fert, which is why I'm think that's it, along with high ppm, and in your above post you say you feed every time... are you sure this is necessary? the truth is that peat holds nutrients, and here is an online article that states as much. Peat works like a sponge to retain both water and fertilizer salts.

"Peat moss: The physical and chemical properties of peat moss make it an ideal base for most soilless mixes because it can hold both water and air. It’s light, but its fibrous structure allows it to hold 15 to 20 times its weight in water. The peat fibers also give it a large amount of pore space (80 to 90 percent of its total volume). It holds nutrients well, and it readily shares them with the roots, thanks to its slightly acidic pH. Horticultural-grade peats come from the decomposed remains of sphagnum moss species that have accumulated over centuries in peat bogs. They are not a renewable resource, however, and concerns about the sustainability of harvesting this product is a common topic of discussion among gardeners. Another type of peat that is used in soilless mixes is known as reed-sedge peat, but this material is generally inferior to sphagnum peat moss."

http://www.finegardening.com/choosing-right-soilless-mix
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
you have yellowing leaf tips on pretty much every leaf while the rest of the leaf is pretty green. this kind color development usually means over fert, which is why I'm think that's it, along with high ppm, and in your above post you say you feed every time... are you sure this is necessary? the truth is that peat holds nutrients, and here is an online article that states as much. Peat works like a sponge to retain both water and fertilizer salts.

"Peat moss: The physical and chemical properties of peat moss make it an ideal base for most soilless mixes because it can hold both water and air. It’s light, but its fibrous structure allows it to hold 15 to 20 times its weight in water. The peat fibers also give it a large amount of pore space (80 to 90 percent of its total volume). It holds nutrients well, and it readily shares them with the roots, thanks to its slightly acidic pH. Horticultural-grade peats come from the decomposed remains of sphagnum moss species that have accumulated over centuries in peat bogs. They are not a renewable resource, however, and concerns about the sustainability of harvesting this product is a common topic of discussion among gardeners. Another type of peat that is used in soilless mixes is known as reed-sedge peat, but this material is generally inferior to sphagnum peat moss."

http://www.finegardening.com/choosing-right-soilless-mix
everybody ive talked to and everything ive read says to feed everytime with soiless. Out of 2.5 gallons of water I usually get about a gallon back in run off. Yeah the yellow tips started about 2 weeks ago. I got my mix a little hot but backed it off the next few feeds. Thanks for the info cause everybody ive talked to says that when using peat you have to feed everytime cause it doesnt retain the nutes. Might have to rethink my strategy.
 

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
no offense, but there's no mights about this one. see, the issue is grow medium density. if you are using a soilless mix, it is still potting soil. as I understand it, soilless just doesn't have much in the way of fertilizer from the factory. I guess that's where the "less" part comes in, in soilless. It it less the ferts. But it is also a dense grow medium that will trap fert salts. They don't all wash out with the run-off. If that were the case, your plants would never get any food at all. In hydro, you have to maintain an upper ppm level because the roots grow in nothing but water. But you can plan on a soil type of medium to actually trap nutrients for a period of time, the length of which depends on the variables - the exact type of medium, how much of it there is, whether you just water periodically or feed every time, the size and feed rate of the plants, soil temp, type of lighting. If you put the powder ferts like fox farm's fruit and flower or tree frog, or time-release stuff in the soilless, you can expect the fert to stay there for a long time, like the entire grow. One other thing is you have to avoid bad info and try to determine for yourself what's good cuz there's a lot of misconceptions out there. You can fix this problem by asking at a nursery how things work and avoid the hydro shop cuz those people tend to be a little confused, give bad advice. Buy their products, but don't ask for help cuz they're in place to sell stuff, not be accurate.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Sure you can feed every time in a peat lite type mix but with a lower dose. Usually the maintainence dose on the bottle rather than the heavy feed dose.

I like a constant 1.4 to 1.6 EC for Promix it still builds up in the medium and requires periodic leeching for best results.

So just a bit lower feed may have given better results. The above posters are all correct those leaves look over nuted. I would run a gallon or more of fresh water through to clean the salts out of the roots and either let them finish like that or maybe put a low like 25% feed back for the finish.

I suspect the ppm was perfect and as they ripened you did not taper off the dosage. As plants ripen they need way less nutes.

And Promix sets their ph around 6.2 so if your runoff is 6.5 usually means they are eating. It's good. setting ph is usually not nessasary depending on your water in a limed mix but you may have let yours rise a bit too high.

Again run some clean water through to "re set " the mix. So to speak.

I hope that was helpful. Buds look nice.
 
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selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
Man where were you guys when I was starting out a few years ago? I've asked these questions a few times and got so many mixed answers that I've just been winging it. Think I'm just going to flush this tomorrow and see how it does the rest of the week. From now on I'll start tapering off around week 6 or 7 and maybe cut nutes back in general. I really appreciate the help. That's guys!
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
Sure you can feed every time in a peat lite type mix but with a lower dose. Usually the maintainence dose on the bottle rather than the heavy feed dose.

I like a constant 1.4 to 1.6 EC for Promix it still builds up in the medium and requires periodic leeching for best results.

So just a bit lower feed may have given better results. The above posters are all correct those leaves look over nuted. I would run a gallon or more of fresh water through to clean the salts out of the roots and either let them finish like that or maybe put a low like 25% feed back for the finish.

I suspect the ppm was perfect and as they ripened you did not taper off the dosage. As plants ripen they need way less nutes.

And Promix sets their ph around 6.2 so if your runoff is 6.5 usually means they are eating. It's good. setting ph is usually not nessasary depending on your water in a limed mix but you may have let yours rise a bit too high.

Again run some clean water through to "re set " the mix. So to speak.

I hope that was helpful. Buds look nice.
Yeah I didn't know you were supposed to taper off. That does seem to be what's happening here.
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
no offense, but there's no mights about this one. see, the issue is grow medium density. if you are using a soilless mix, it is still potting soil. as I understand it, soilless just doesn't have much in the way of fertilizer from the factory. I guess that's where the "less" part comes in, in soilless. It it less the ferts. But it is also a dense grow medium that will trap fert salts. They don't all wash out with the run-off. If that were the case, your plants would never get any food at all. In hydro, you have to maintain an upper ppm level because the roots grow in nothing but water. But you can plan on a soil type of medium to actually trap nutrients for a period of time, the length of which depends on the variables - the exact type of medium, how much of it there is, whether you just water periodically or feed every time, the size and feed rate of the plants, soil temp, type of lighting. If you put the powder ferts like fox farm's fruit and flower or tree frog, or time-release stuff in the soilless, you can expect the fert to stay there for a long time, like the entire grow. One other thing is you have to avoid bad info and try to determine for yourself what's good cuz there's a lot of misconceptions out there. You can fix this problem by asking at a nursery how things work and avoid the hydro shop cuz those people tend to be a little confused, give bad advice. Buy their products, but don't ask for help cuz they're in place to sell stuff, not be accurate.
Dude. Avoiding bad info is hard. So much of it out there. I've read a few books and tons of online stuff but once you get in these forums, the bad info starts to flow. Almost like some people want you to fail. I'm just trying to get the best meds for myself possible.
 

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
you might try a different grow method altogether. like whitney farms or dr. earth all purpose, or fox farm's fruit and flower. probably one half cup of fert in 5 gallons of soilless will work. soilless is actually called that because soil is the stuff, the dirt, we see outdoors. that is soil. the peat moss and bark mixes are called potting soil and can also be called soilless, cuz there's no dirt in the mix. some have fert in them already and some don't. fox farm potting soil, the ocean forest, already has fert, as does Roots. We used to see a lot of Supernatural, but not so much now. Subcool came out with two versions of soilless, one for small plants and one for large. Subcool is the web name of a guy who's a breeder and he's on youtube. just look for his name and you can watch his videos. The poor guy has a lung disease that reduces his pleasure of smoking, but he does it once in a while. you can find his soil in some hydro shops, just google it for your location. about the web, the problem with it is that anyone with a web connection can give their opinion or advice, which many times will sound good to a naïve person, but in the end you'll discover how wrong it was. you have to do your own research and not learn from these forums so much cuz it doesn't really work too well. I've been reading online grow forums since 1999 and tried to take the good stuff and remove the rest. It's an uphill battle. new generations come along and say all kinds of crazy stuff that isn't rooted in fact.
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
you might try a different grow method altogether. like whitney farms or dr. earth all purpose, or fox farm's fruit and flower. probably one half cup of fert in 5 gallons of soilless will work. soilless is actually called that because soil is the stuff, the dirt, we see outdoors. that is soil. the peat moss and bark mixes are called potting soil and can also be called soilless, cuz there's no dirt in the mix. some have fert in them already and some don't. fox farm potting soil, the ocean forest, already has fert, as does Roots. We used to see a lot of Supernatural, but not so much now. Subcool came out with two versions of soilless, one for small plants and one for large. Subcool is the web name of a guy who's a breeder and he's on youtube. just look for his name and you can watch his videos. The poor guy has a lung disease that reduces his pleasure of smoking, but he does it once in a while. you can find his soil in some hydro shops, just google it for your location. about the web, the problem with it is that anyone with a web connection can give their opinion or advice, which many times will sound good to a naïve person, but in the end you'll discover how wrong it was. you have to do your own research and not learn from these forums so much cuz it doesn't really work too well. I've been reading online grow forums since 1999 and tried to take the good stuff and remove the rest. It's an uphill battle. new generations come along and say all kinds of crazy stuff that isn't rooted in fact.
Ive been smoking subcool pennywise for the last 3 years. Easiest strain ive grown so far from start to finish.
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
Ok. you guys were spot on. Nute burn. I flushed with about 4 gallons (5 gallon smart pot) of PHed water and what came out was like pure ice tea! I had no idea that peat was retaining all that. Not sure how I pulled off my first handfull of grows but they all turned out fine and I havent changed much in the last 4 years. Im going to cut back on the nutes and when I get late into flower ill start feeding every other time and see how that goes.
 

selfmedicator462

Well-Known Member
Cut her down today. Turned a nice purplish color. My trichs were mostly milky with some turning dark brown so I decided it was time. Some Amber but not much. Probably going to run this again right away to see if I can get my feeding squared away. image.jpegimage.jpeg
 
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