Ocean Forest vs Happy Frog Please Weigh In

IMO the Roots original is better due to the addition of coco coir and it being completely amended (agreed it can be hot but imagine the demand they have for it now). Coco is definitely better for compaction over the long term than peat. I have reused some of the coco rich mix in my greenhouse at least 6 times now and it remains a nice spongy medium.
I forgot to mention though that I have the majority of my houseplants in 1- 3 gal containers of FFHF and they are doing great. They are six years since transplant on the larger jades, etc. I let it go completely dry in between waterings and live in a desert.

Kalyx said:

IMO the Roots original is better due to the addition of coco coir and it being completely amended (agreed it can be hot but imagine the demand they have for it now). Coco is definitely better for compaction over the long term than peat. I have reused some of the coco rich mix in my greenhouse at least 6 times now and it remains a nice spongy medium.
I forgot to mention though that I have the majority of my houseplants in 1- 3 gal containers of FFHF and they are doing great. They are six years since transplant on the larger jades, etc. I let it go completely dry in between waterings and live in a desert.

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^^ What he said =D Roots amended is amazing.

budhastalin said:

I know I should be mixing my own soil but I'm busy so its easier to just buy it. The nursery by my house sells 1.5 Cubic Foot bags of OF for $18 and the 2 cubic foot HF is $19.
I've been using OF for a few years with good luck, I'm switching to full Organics this next grow. I noticed that HF is a better deal so I'm thinking of switching over just to save a few bucks.

Any pros/cons?
Peace

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I have not read the other posts so here it is. OF is the premium product and will have a controlled, regular mix of ingredients. Happy frog is available as a stepchild of OF so that the company can utilize the ingredients that vary in constancy. Thus the lower price.

Both are very good but HF will vary in the way it works, not too much but probably a little or maybe a lot.

I have found it is best to not add any nutrients to plants that have been transplanted into these soils. 2-4 weeks is a solid waiting time before supplementing the soil matrix. Rock on, baby shoes PM me if you would like to talk

Ocen forest and happy frog kinda suck by there selfs, but if you mix them together they seem to have a better balance, plants start healthyer and stay healthyer longer

I am having pretty good results using Happy Frog with 1 cup of lime, 1 cup of perlite and 1 cup of worm castings per pot.

I found a hydro shop nearby that sells Roots, I'm going to check it out soon.

So, by adding the coco it makes the waterings easier I gather? Which would mean more nutrient uptake?

Currently, I do feedings for the vegging plants after they show me a little yellowing on the bottom leaves, then leave them alone except for waterings for 10-12 days for the rest of the vegging period after I put them in fresh OF in 3 gallon pots. I don't start feeding Flowering nutes for a week or two once I flip to 12/12, then I start with pretty good feedings ramping up gradually until the last 2 weeks where I switch to water and occasionally some Molasses.

Does Roots also allow for good aeration and how is it on the watering frequency?

I water about once a day with my big girls, it would be a drag if I had to water more than once a day because of the coco addition.

I want to keep it simple while increasing my yield, so the soil seems like a good place to begin.

I'm about to switch from FoxFarm nutes to the full line up from General Organics, but after I get it down with these nutes, I'll probably experimant with coco addition to the OF that I have stocked up on, and try the ROOTs next time I need soil. At the very least I'm going to find a place with better deals on Organic Dirt!

budhastalin said:

I found a hydro shop nearby that sells Roots, I'm going to check it out soon.

So, by adding the coco it makes the waterings easier I gather? Which would mean more nutrient uptake?

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Think of coco coir as a sponge. You can put a sponge in a small bowl of water or a swimming pool and it will still retain the same amount of water, just like coco coir. As a result, coco only retains what it can hold and everything else typically runs off. As a result of this, over-watering with a mostly coco medium is pretty much impossible. My plants have been healthy since day one of going into this mix without any signs of over/under-watering or over/under-fertilizing. Coco coir is awesome and personally, my results have been astonishing since I've mixed it with Fox Farm soils.

Anyway, to answer your original question about comparing both soils, my personal opinion is to use both soils if possible. I used to use pure FFOF and, like many before me, found out the hard way about combining their nutes with their soil without proper caution. I still loved FFOF, but the absolute best growth that I've ever experiences is when I cut the different fox farm soils with coco coir. If you can only use one, FFOF will likely best serve you in the long run. But if you can, try mixing a coco coir block with a little under half of a bag of both the Ocean Forest and Happy Frog soil mixes, then throw some perlite in there as well. If I had to put numbers on it I'd say about 40-50% coco, 15-20% of each FF soil mixes, and about 10-20% of perlite. I keep saying about because I usually just wing it

Anyway, there are plenty of good reasons to do this. First off, OF and HF have different ingredients in them. OF has some seaweed and kelp and other things of that nature that aren't included in HF, however HF has mycorrhiza and other beneficial microbes in the soil that OF doesn't have which is why I like to mix a little bit of both with the coco. I like to use mostly coco because the coco not only seems to be more efficient with water/nutrient retention than either of those soil mixes, but it also seems to be more forgiving to the beginner like myself

If you can mix both with some perlite and coco, do that and you'll be amazed at your results. Or even just try both OF and HF, however if those options aren't in your budget and you can only go with one soil I would recommend the OF for sure. Hope this helped some, best of luck!

budhastalin said:

I found a hydro shop nearby that sells Roots, I'm going to check it out soon.

So, by adding the coco it makes the waterings easier I gather? Which would mean more nutrient uptake?

Currently, I do feedings for the vegging plants after they show me a little yellowing on the bottom leaves, then leave them alone except for waterings for 10-12 days for the rest of the vegging period after I put them in fresh OF in 3 gallon pots. I don't start feeding Flowering nutes for a week or two once I flip to 12/12, then I start with pretty good feedings ramping up gradually until the last 2 weeks where I switch to water and occasionally some Molasses.

Does Roots also allow for good aeration and how is it on the watering frequency?

I water about once a day with my big girls, it would be a drag if I had to water more than once a day because of the coco addition.

I want to keep it simple while increasing my yield, so the soil seems like a good place to begin.

I'm about to switch from FoxFarm nutes to the full line up from General Organics, but after I get it down with these nutes, I'll probably experimant with coco addition to the OF that I have stocked up on, and try the ROOTs next time I need soil. At the very least I'm going to find a place with better deals on Organic Dirt!

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All I know is that the Roots Organic doesn't seem to have the huge bang in veg that FFOF does...but the FFOF seems to cause me a lot of early yellowing without adding a lot more nutes than I have to use when I use the Roots...so something to think about...if not for switching to coco then I would probably, use FFOF in veg and then transplant into Roots with the preflower transplant. That way I get the benefits of the roots in flower and the OF in veg. anyway coco totally wins. so whateva.

althor said:

I am having pretty good results using Happy Frog with 1 cup of lime, 1 cup of perlite and 1 cup of worm castings per pot.

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What size pot?

Try this to make either FF soil work a bit better IMO. Start with HF if you are more concerned about over ferting (less experienced at reading when to start feeding harder) start with OF if you want more nute in the soil to begin with.

5 scoops FFHF (what I used more often with liquid organic nutes) or FFOF (used more often with AACT instead of nutes)
2 scoops coco coir
2 scoops chunky perlite
1 scoop EWC

I think the equal parts of perlite and coco coir will even each other out and the mix should have somewhat similar water retention to the original FF product you start with. The main the coco coir does is help with better cation exchange than peat and keep a more spongy, less hydrophobic media throughout the grow. EWC really help balance the acidity of the NPK amendments with bacteria which like a bit higher pH to thrive.

missnu

All I know is that the Roots Organic doesn't seem to have the huge bang in veg that FFOF does...but the FFOF seems to cause me a lot of early yellowing without adding a lot more nutes than I have to use when I use the Roots...so something to think about...​

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Rumor has it that FFOF is not 100% organic. The bang in veg you refer to out of the bag is rumored to be some or all of the three forms of synthetic nitrogen found in Grow Big and Marine Cuisine by FF. The yellowing may occur once these nitrogen sources run out? This is one of the reasons I recently stopped buying FFOF and use roots now as the base for my NOTvegan mix. I want to be as organic as possible by a more purist standard than most who love to throw the O-word around a bit more loosely.

budhastalin

I found a hydro shop nearby that sells Roots, I'm going to check it out soon.

So, by adding the coco it makes the waterings easier I gather? Which would mean more nutrient uptake?

Currently, I do feedings for the vegging plants after they show me a little yellowing on the bottom leaves, then leave them alone except for waterings for 10-12 days for the rest of the vegging period after I put them in fresh OF in 3 gallon pots. I don't start feeding Flowering nutes for a week or two once I flip to 12/12, then I start with pretty good feedings ramping up gradually until the last 2 weeks where I switch to water and occasionally some Molasses.

Does Roots also allow for good aeration and how is it on the watering frequency?

I water about once a day with my big girls, it would be a drag if I had to water more than once a day because of the coco addition.​

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I have grown some of my nicest plants ever in FF products cut with coco and perlite plus EWC using both GO and Roots Organic liquids. Your flavor is gonna double and the yield decreasing is a myth put out by the greedy synth nute companies who love to raise their MSRPs constantly (as do the companies selling us the organic bottled liquids). An amended mix is the backbone of high yield living organics. If you do liquids just don't get carried away with dosage, that is the synth mindset. Remember you are feeding the microbial soil life not the plant directly like with FF synth nutes. Also keep in mind that microbes can't live on perlite so too much in the mix can limit the microbial real estate. Super light mixes are a huge fad but cannabis can thrive in mixes with less perlite, I've been adding no extra perlite except what comes with the roots soil and I also use fabric pots to speed up drying out without adding more perlite than what roots has already.

Please weigh in.. Fuck you copper!

Oh man, it gets so easy to geek out on dirt along with every thing else with our fine sweet love.

That is the trap I am trying not to fall into, the trap where your grow consumes all your time. I mean, it's damn fun but when it seems to feel like work...well then that's not the point.

I mean, I'm managing multiple strains multiple plants all in various stages of kick-ass ness, and after 3 years of figuring shit out my shit is getting kick ass!

I've been staying really basic on the dirt, but I'm kind of getting to where it is necessary to start putting in more effort in the growing medium department. I think after I get this Bodhi Gogi OG going solid, and I clear out some of this junky white widow I'm going to succumb to the siren's song that will be the custom backyard coco ff/hf perlite/EWC orgy.

It is more work, but we are already putting the time in. Your girls world gets better when the mix gets better, completely worth it IMO especially with living organics. It definitely makes you rethink the whole throw out your rootball every time practice which is so common in the disposable economy mindset. I reuse all of mine and it works well b/c all the coco lasts in good structure compared to perlite dependent peat. No one is tossing rootballs out of nature's gardens!

I don't know if I can get down with re-use of soil. One of my bestys just re-used his soil, and it turned out to be a nightmare. He uses all organics from General Organics and his plants have looked great. Then, he re-uses some soil, gets High pH, nute lockout, it was a nightmare for him. It set him back about a month on his next harvest.

I've never re-used soil but it is tempting to try it, I'm sure there are tricks to use that would make it better.

Please drop some soil re-use tips if anybody's got em. It would mean less trips to the nursery and I'm down with that.

It seems like you would have to flush it forever to get all the salts rinsed out, then rebuild it with whatever ammendments, and then you'd be good to go?

actually there have been so many arguments on the forum requiring direct answers that fox farm and i speak enough that i have my own poc. they have assured me that the ffof/hf soil is in fact organic, and they still are a small company family owned and working in reasonably small batches. I use happy from for clones and seedlings, and use ffof for vegging plants. I mix the two together and cut 50/50 with coco coir when i bloom.

budhastalin said:

I don't know if I can get down with re-use of soil. One of my bestys just re-used his soil, and it turned out to be a nightmare...

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if you leave your pots sitting long enough after or you dump the reclaim soil somewhere to sit for a while it works out great.

Mal, do you use liquid ferts at all?

I recently switched from ocean forest to vermi fire, OF seemed to work a lot better before had amazing results, but late into veg it just gets clumpy and damp. Vermi fire is the shit tho, amazing blend.

NightbirdX said:

Mal, do you use liquid ferts at all?

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im doing an experiment with 2 of my girls, feeding them iguana juice in addition to my regular feed regime. other than that the only liquid i use is neptunes hydrolyzed fish, and cold pressed seaweed, oh and of course molasses. however this is only for my headstash herbs.

my cashcrop and hashcrops are grown with canna coco in a waterfarm with canna coco dust.
if its for sale or a co2 extraction who cares?

my spiritual stash is grown outside with cow dung, jamaican/indonesian bat guano, in a bed of 50/50 ffof and mappy frog cut 50/50 with coco coir and topped with happy frog soil conditioner. then i feed my regular tea schedule in the sticky on the top of the organic forum
these plants being grown for lord shiva are a uk cheese, strawberry blue, northernlights, og kush, dairy queen, plushberry, bubba 76', and veneno

malignant said:

im doing an experiment with 2 of my girls, feeding them iguana juice in addition to my regular feed regime. other than that the only liquid i use is neptunes hydrolyzed fish, and cold pressed seaweed, oh and of course molasses. however this is only for my headstash herbs.

my cashcrop and hashcrops are grown with canna coco in a waterfarm with canna coco dust.
if its for sale or a co2 extraction who cares?

my spiritual stash is grown outside with cow dung, jamaican/indonesian bat guano, in a bed of 50/50 ffof and mappy frog cut 50/50 with coco coir and topped with happy frog soil conditioner. then i feed my regular tea schedule in the sticky on the top of the organic forum
these plants being grown for lord shiva are a uk cheese, strawberry blue, northernlights, og kush, dairy queen, plushberry, bubba 76', and veneno

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What is the difference between headstash and Spiritual stash? I probably seem ignorant because I've seen these terms used before but dang it I need a vocab lesson!