pinkus
New Member
so inform me. as i said i taught school. are you just a FOX news devote or will you try to explain?
Obama ... He's Lookin' Good!
- Thread starter ViRedd
- Start date
GanjaAL
Active Member
Yea and the government does so much better. Socialism and Communism does not work! Jimmy and Clinton got us into this mess... I thought you said you were in education???? Not good in history or what????
pinkus
New Member
the only people that have talked about socialism and communism are Fox and the scare mongers. since none of you seem to want to give me facts i'll just consider ya'll fox devotes and un subscribe accordingly. Thanks for at least being civil GanjaAL, which is much better than some other normally civilized members can say.
adios
Pinkus
rusty Shakleford
Active Member
Any of y'all who think Obama is doing even a decent job, jump of a bridge.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Ah yes...government always knows what's best for its subjects.
CrackerJax
New Member
Teacher eh? That explains a lot....sorry cj, was a teacher for 8 LONG years.if you want to dispute that health care is broken, i'd be glad to hear how it is not. just saying i'm wrong with no facts will never dissuade me.
Third World Care?
Posted 08/11/2009 06:54 PM ET
Reform: Buffeted by growing outrage that ObamaCare will ruin quality medical care in America, a top administration official has resorted to telling desperate lies.
'Frankly," HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told a recent meeting of AFL-CIO leaders, "the health delivery system is under-delivering in terms of quality of care. We spend over twice as much as any nation on earth, and our health results look like we're a developing country."
Tell that to all the princes and potentates from developing countries who flock to America for lifesaving treatment. Saudi billionaires could go anywhere in the world to cure what ails them, but they check into the Mayo Clinic or the Texas Medical Center.
And poll after poll shows Americans are much more satisfied with the quality of their care than their counterparts in industrialized countries with government-run health care.
More than 70% of adults in countries with government-controlled health care Britain, Germany, Australia and New Zealand, as well as Canada complain that their systems need either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."
That's because they wait longer for treatment and die sooner than Americans from common cancers and other diseases, according to a study by Dr. Scott W. Atlas, a Hoover Institution senior fellow and chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center.
Consider breast cancer mortality, which is 88% higher in Britain and 9% higher in Canada. Or prostate cancer mortality, which is 604% higher in Britain and 184% higher in Canada.
We have better cancer survival rates not only because we have better treatment, but because we have earlier detection. And we have earlier detection because we have better access to tests that screen for cancer.
For example, almost 90% of middle-aged U.S. women have had a mammogram, compared with 72% of Canadians; more than half of U.S. men 54% have had a prostate-specific antigen test, while only 16% of Canadians have had a PSA, and fully 30% of Americans have had a colonoscopy the procedure for detecting colon cancer compared with 5% of Canadians.
We also spend less time waiting for care. In fact, Canadians and Britons "wait about twice as long sometimes more than a year to see a specialist, have elective surgery such as hip replacements, or get radiation treatment for cancer," Atlas found.
Access to lifesaving drugs is also better in the U.S. Some 56% of Americans take statin drugs that reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease, compared with 36% of Dutch, 29% of Swiss, 23% of Britons and 17% of Italians.
Finally, we have better access to critical diagnostic equipment. The U.S. has 34 CT scanners per million people vs. 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. And we operate 27 MRI machines per million compared with six per million in Canada and Britain.
The U.S. medical industry is responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations in the world. It's no coincidence that since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to Americans more often than recipients from all other countries combined.
America decidedly does not have a Third World health care system. But it will if Washington takes control of it.
Yeah the same government that forces kids on pills threw school and makes a plant illegal is deffenatly looking out for us. We should just trust everything they say right? Then stop smoking grass and go get some pills like they want because they dont give a fuck what you want.
They have to care what the mass thinks but the mass would rather see obama on some reality show then as president. Oh what was that other demacrat? VH1 will deffently give obama a job when the mass find out his father was not a citizen, so weather he was born here or not he still doesnt qualify. Same reason arnold cant run for president.
He was born here one parent was a citizen HE can be in government just not president Now he child could be president IF he/she mother was aswell a a natrual born citizen.
Obama is NOT president he is NOT elidgable for the job because both of his parents were not citizens his FATHER was here at college and had to go back to kenya after school. Temporary visa so maybe you idiots should have picked Clinton in the primarys.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
If you are too deluded to recognize the fact that nationalizing the healthcare system is an act of socialism, and too deluded to realize that the usage of public money to bail out private enterprise is an act of socialism then there is no point in any truly educated, intelligent and rational person trying to hold a conversation with you.
Your delusions of your knowledge do not stand on their own, but expose a lack of understanding of exactly what Socialism is. Nationalizing the healthcare system isn't going to reduce costs. Nationalizing portions of it have lead to increased costs that continue to expand faster than inflation. Real reforms, such as removing restrictions permitting physicians' assistants and other healthcare professionals from operating with out the continual babysitting of a physician (not that physicians shouldn't have some voice in what their employees do) would improve the quantity of healthcare available.
Tort reform and punitive damages reform to lessen the costs of malpractice lawsuits would reduce the costs of drug development, and of medical malpractice insurance. When a neurosurgeon is paying $144,000+/year for malpractice insurance there is something wrong with the system. Yet, your false god, Obama does nothing to address that fact, and instead spins lies that you, in a fit of blind hysteria, follow like a automaton.
The costs of healthcare reform being proposed by that demagogue will greatly exceed the fake $1 Trillion dollar price tag that he has repeated time and time again. And if that is the cost, is that on top of the cost already involved in the medical system? That's not a reduction in costs, that's increasing the cost from 16% (2.2 Trillion) to 22% (3.2 Trillion) of the economy of the United States.
For marginal gains in the number of insured. Most of the uninsured fall into three categories.
1. Can afford it, but don't want it, because they can pay out of pocket at lower costs, not being chronically ill.
2. Don't want it, because they value other goods and services more highly due to their youth.
3. Fit the criteria to enroll in the free healthcare already provided by the government, but have too much pride and self-respect to do so, understanding that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and that some one else will have to pay for the healthcare goods and services that they will consume with out paying for.
Then there's the illegals (which apparently are going to get covered under the imbecilic proposal being pushed by Obama.
Last is the group of people that would actually benefit which amounts to a small percentage of the population and thus the cost/benefit relationship of nationalizing the healthcare system does not make it worth it.
More importantly is the fact that as humanity is a sentient species they should be permitted to make their own choices. People will make mistakes, but it is not the job of government to subsidize those mistakes. Subsidies, whether commercial or private, do not resolve problems but just incur more problems.
Due to the subsidization of the colossal clusterfuck known as the financial industry it is likely that they did not learn from their mistakes, but that doesn't matter, because Uncle Sam (being the deluded ignorant buffoon that he is) will steal from the citizenry to make right the mistakes (which actually cost the citizenry in the first place.) The CF that was known as GM is another example of government subsidizing mistakes. Odds are likely that in another generation (if not much faster) GM will once again find that it is in similar straits due to mismanagement and the greed of both its line workers and its executives.
Arguments for national health insurance assume (making an ass out of the politicians) that people are not capable of forming rational decisions and deciding how to best use their own resources. It is not a system for mature, rational adults, but a system of continual dependency. That is, instituting this system is a desire to create a nation of underdeveloped human beings that never attain full mental development, maturity and self-growth that all mature humans attain.
pinkus
New Member
basically FUCK YOU on the snide comments CJ! you tell me to go back to school and then act like school is a detriment FUCK YOU!!! BTW there is no way those percentages are correct on mammograms, and the amount of UNNECESSARY testing has been linked with...you guessed it...CANCER. unnecessary testing procedures are one of the ways BIG MED bilks the current system out of HUGE chunks of $$$.
if you want to insult people you are never going get them to see your side. RIU is based on free speech, correct? but the next time you just start insulting people for their views, i'm going to start reporting to to the admin, you know it's just trolling in another guise. so please lay off the calling people idiots, morons, or anything else just because they don't agree with you. You PAID for elite status...it would be great if you lived up to the label.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
CrackerJax is a dumbass that tries to act smart man don't let him get to you. He does it to make himself feel better about having no future.
2nd, I say it is somewhere in the middle which is the point I was trying to maek. We need to keep an eye on the government, but the lies that get tossed around non stop by the republicans (and people that pretend to be independents) cloud the actual issues. This is just a smoke screen to get themselves elected again in 2010, which may just happen in about 3-4 seats of the 18 the dems control.
Tbt this is not socialism. Infact like my thread it seems more and more likely that it won't even be a government program now, because the private insurance companies are finally doing what should have been done by them decades ago and stepping up talks to insure people.
1st the BC thing is dated, and never going to matter.
2nd, I say it is somewhere in the middle which is the point I was trying to maek. We need to keep an eye on the government, but the lies that get tossed around non stop by the republicans (and people that pretend to be independents) cloud the actual issues. This is just a smoke screen to get themselves elected again in 2010, which may just happen in about 3-4 seats of the 18 the dems control.
Tbt this is not socialism. Infact like my thread it seems more and more likely that it won't even be a government program now, because the private insurance companies are finally doing what should have been done by them decades ago and stepping up talks to insure people.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
Such a mature argument, and yet you seem to be confused on everything.
You state that RIU is built around free speech and then wail when some one like CJ (or myself) uses it to insult you. Of course, you then go and make a hypocrite out of yourself by insulting him right back.
Not only are you unable to comprehend the written word, but apparently instead of focusing on the arguments you focus on the insults.
Why would any one actually believe that you are mature enough to be trusted in your opinions?
Hannimal
Socialism or Fascism are both the same side of the coin, whether the government takes control of private enterprises, seizes control of the markets, or uses the threat of force and coercion to make them do what they do not want to do it is a socialist system where those that are in charge of the means of production (capital) are deprived of their property rights.
It is Socialism, it is you who just can't comprehend what Socialism is.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I can comprehend socialism no matter how you try to diminish me with saying I don't.
But doing a private bill is not that unless you want to continue to go with such a broad definition of it.
Then essentially everything we have is socialism, down to people writing the constitution, because it was written by people that are the government, and it seems that is the end definition is that anything done by the government is socialism.
Because who is the government to tell you that all people are created equal, but because I deal in white male slavery they are injecting their government morals onto my business and that by this broad definition is socialism.
pinkus
New Member
did i? where? i simply said he wasn't living up to elite status. big difference between saying some one is not extraordinary (elite) and calling them names (i.e. moron, idiot).
free speech is great but slander is not protected. have a nice day
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
I have no need to diminish you, you do it every time you make an argument. All I do is state what is obvious to everyone else.
And it's not a broad definition of Socialism. It's a very narrow definition. Government interference in the markets is socialist or fascist or nazi-esque. Though I supposed a better term would be to describe it would be as a form of oligarchial control. That is, the bureaucracy you support is nothing more than the formation of a new form of Kings and Nobles and thus another form of oligarchy aside from monarchy and tyranny.
The United States has long been on the path of socialism and fascism, and it is people like you, who can not comprehend the full meaning of that word that continue to rail in favor of instituting more and more state control over our lives.
Tell me, do you have a private shrine to Obama, who must be like a god to you?
Humanity is done with the age of kings, and monarchs and tyrants. Or at least it was until imbeciles like you with your notions of artificial distinctions based on wealth came into being and sought to destroy the notion of equality for all before the law.
What is sad is that you are too incapable of comprehending the definition of true equality before law to actually realize that the system you support violates that noble principle. Go back to your shrine to Obama, maybe when you reveal its existence to their teachers they'll give you extra credit for being a good sycophant of that demagogue.
pinkus
New Member
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
The one that supposedly has Conspiracy Theories according to Hannimal. Eh, slow, but that's my fault for not putting enough effort behind it. Got bogged down with my day job, which I should be returning to.
What about you, how's everything going Natrone?
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Only to the nutballs that read the same junk you read.
See here you go again with your grand words trying to discredit me for supporting Kings and Nobles. When you should know by now I am all for the free market. But in the cases that it fails, their needs to be support from somewhere.
You are such a joke at times, I think that I may make a thread about your greatest hits. All governments will trend towards gaining more power. Is that something that you need to act like your the only one privy to this information. Did I not start a thread that ended up getting derailed by your followers that would end up giving us more freedoms. But no you don't think that way, it is all on your side, or wrong.
Where the fuck did this bullshit come from? You want to call me names eh. You think that you are above all this, I think that your followers are giving you a big head. It must be fun to be the king of the crazies.
No thanks I will stay here and continue to fight the ultimately losing fight that will be won by the insane. I will continue to talk about sanity and that nothing is out to get you. Because that is reality, no matter how the 10 bloggers on here continue to bash and lie, I will continue to try to get the real info out there.
But I will go back to my great life and perfect teeth and great health insurance though.
K
Keenly
Guest
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! i never thought brainwashing could be so funny
TBT is far more educated in politics than you have proven your self to be
if education is brainwashing... does that make you an idiot cause you dont know half of the stuff your talking about?
ill leave you to decide
oh, and i love how since he is standing up for what our government and our country is SUPPOSED to be, he is brainwashed
thats another ironic point you have made