Nutrients/Canna Coco A+B and supplements

Ive read all the info. from Canna's website, but still have reservations about the recommended dose...they look so fragile...

Should I cut the initial feeding that's recommended in 1/2 or possibly in 1/4 for -+1 week?

Any other tried and true recommendations with this type of grow would be greatly appreciated.

60/40 coco/perlite in solo cups.

18/6 T5 14W 6500k lights.

Planned 400W MH/400W HPS

Nutrients:
COGr Vega A+B
PK 13/14
Rhizotonic
Cannazym

Greetings brother.

I have been growing perpetually, and exclusively with canna for the past 2 years. I also am in coco. I use 50/50 canna coco/perlite.
I would also like to raise a discussion here regarding optimal canna nutrient regimes and what supplements work well with the line. I may start a thread myself.

What i can add from personal experience is that, it seems regardless of the strain that it takes a heaaavy feeding to actually burn them. im fairly aggressive with my PPM and i tend to never see any harm.
Id like to add that i use the canna COCO line. you said that you are using vega? unless you know something i dont, id like to encourage you to switch to the coco line. coco medium is unique and a bit delicate in the way salts are dissolved and nutrient intake occurs. it is most favorable to use a nutrient line specifically for coco. and canna definitely was the way to go in that direction. they have the highest quality coco line for sure.
But anyways, in other words I would assume that it will be easier for you to overfeed, develop nutrient intake issues or salt build up using a more "hydroponic" or totally drain to waste line like vega. Bc i know the same is true for lines like Advanced Nutrients . burn them easy and lots of salt build up.

Another thing i can offer is that i have noticed that it DOES depend on the strain, but its about 50/50 chance that your plants will feel N or calcium deficiency using the ling as is, even in heavy feeding and especially during the first few weeks of veg. so i supplement ALWAYS just to be sure with a small dose of botanicare cal-mag at those times.

so as for your question on what to feed wk 1 ... heres wat i prime medium, and feed seedlings tiill day 7.

A+B = 3ml/gal
Cal-Mag = 2ml/gal
rhizo = 15ml/gal

Ph= 5.4-5.6
PPM=720-780

sound heavy?? idk. i never burn. different strain every month. always healthy dark green.

what strains do you have going there and how many times have you grown before? lets keep in contact maybe we can help each other out. when i start my thread i will send you a link to it and maybe we can get a good discussion going and maybe even a dedicated thread to canna nutes. good luck !

Greetings,

Thanks for the info.

Was using the Coco CoGr Vega A+B, but am thinking of switching to Coco A+B today. Need to go pick up some cal mag, I think, as prevention is optimal.

This is my first grow.

Strain is Liberty Haze.

CoGr A+B 4ml/gal
rhizo 3.5/gal

PH 5.6-5.8
PPM 360-405

Yours sounds heavy, but as I am very inexperianced I am not privy to all possible methods used.

This is day 7 since planting and they are working on their second nodes.

I feed to 20-40% runoff twice a day...Sound like too much water?

60/40.. coco/coarse per-lite in solo cups.

Got 5/5 germination, but one of them is having a very hard time since transferring to growing medium.

Will post pic of strongest girl later.

The two first leaves (not round starter leaves) look funny at edges. Perhaps they are feeling a N strain as I have great airflow, but intake is from an indoor room not outside air. Venting to different room than intake is from . Might consider CO2 supplement....?

thefunofit said:

Greetings,

Thanks for the info.

Was using the Coco CoGr Vega A+B, but am thinking of switching to Coco A+B today. Need to go pick up some cal mag, I think, as prevention is optimal.

This is my first grow.

Strain is Liberty Haze.

CoGr A+B 4ml/gal
rhizo 3.5/gal

PH 5.6-5.8
PPM 360-405

Yours sounds heavy, but as I am very inexperienced I am not privy to all possible methods used.

This is day 7 since planting and they are working on their second nodes.

I feed to 20-40% runoff twice a day...Sound like too much water?

60/40.. coco/coarse per-lite in solo cups.

Got 5/5 germination, but one of them is having a very hard time since transferring to growing medium.

Will post pic of strongest girl later.

The two first leaves (not round starter leaves) look funny at edges. Perhaps they are feeling a N strain as I have great airflow, but intake is from an indoor room not outside air. Venting to different room than intake is from . Might consider CO2 supplement....?

Click to expand...

i dont blame you for going light on the nutes. especially on your first grow.but i assure you,you can push them harder. the only reason i start so high is bc for a long time i tested seedlings higher and higher and i found where im at to be optimal. but fyi the cal-mag adds a good amount of PPM even in real small doses. instructions say 5ml/gal and i never give over 3. and i start with 2. haas remedied EVERY deficiency ive ever had. love the stuff. perfect supp for veg.

20-40% runoff is great. thats just about what i do. but i only feed once a day. i think you may be over watering in my opinion. especially this early. common mistake to make on a first grow though cause you wanna be sure i understand. but honestly it TRULY helps to let them almost need that water everyday. i use felt smart pots as well, my medium is NEVER dry but gets slightly "crispy" before i water again. you really see explosive growth when you let those roots have search deeper for the water,combined w an aggressive and CONSISTENT feeding everyday around the same time. that alone will result you in like i said a wonderful growth pattern. i see between 1-1.5 in. AVERAGE growth per day between day 25-50. rarely but sometimes even 2 in. a day. your also using slightly LESS perlite then me as well, so your absorption rate is even higher. i dont think you need to be feeding twice a day at 20-40% runoff. let it get a little crispy. 24-30 hrs max between feeding.

your on day 7? i transplant to 4 in. square coco pots on day 7 or day 10 and heres what i feed:

A+B = 5ml/gal
Cal-mag = 2.5ml/gal
Rhizo = 15ml/gal

ph = 5.4-5.6
ppm = 800-850

i noticed you were EXTREMELY light on the rhizo. thats probably the most critical element of the seedling phase brother.. root growth flourishes w that stuff. other crucial element is making sure you supp w your cal-mag to ensure a strong, steady start and to eliminate any risk of developing a deficiency . but this canna line is GREAT stuff and with aggressive feeding is probably one of the best programs out right now, and rivals hydroponics. it IS almost hydroponics... lol. id love to see pics though man. ill throw some up too of where im at right now.

i have a blackwater strain from cali connection (purple OG) . on day 8 today right in front of yours actually. shes still feeding on her original nutes. will transplant on day 10 to 4in coco pot and feed what i have above.

i also have 3 blue widow girls on day 29 (21 days ahead). 3 autoflowering strains (AK49, white widow, northern lights) all on day 54 (25 days ahead), and also a single grapefruit strain starting wk 8 of flower today. she will go 10 weeks. ill put up a few nudes of the girls after my lunch. lol. ttyl brother.

im curious how you chose to germinate your seeds by the way ?

i used to have 100% germ rates for a looong time and then i just started to struggle for a while :/

.. since then ive kinda been doing something a little different each time but i still havent reached a comforatable method with the consistency i had before. its very frustrating. in fact thats why i only have ONE blackwater seed on day 8 right now. 1/4 germ. smh. pissed me off. those seeds were $28 a piece . this is about the only thing i havent 1000% gotten down yet is starting seeds. but when i first started it was 100% idk what happned. ive reverted back to the truly old school method of dropping beans into the meduim and waiting for them. i feel like bc of the consistency of that scenerio for the seed.. it serves for less room for issue as long as your surrounding temps and humidity are ALWAYS consistent day and night.

and i think thats where i struggle. before using a heat mat, i would allow the temp to fluctuate too much during the day. i think that causes seeds to die. 70 at night and sometimes almost 90 during the day. so i starting to germ my seeds outside the grow room and on a heat mad to keep it consistent ... then i starting fucking up bc it would get too hot for them i think. smh. IDK ! lol. shits pissing me off to be honest. just wondering what your doing .??

I used 4 bounty paper towels on the bottom and two on the top.

I moistened all the towels, with the seeds between them, one time.

Used two coffee saucer plates as a clam-shell and kept them under my sink.

Temp: 70-75
Humidity: 40-50% outside the clam-shell, but optimum inside.

Used 5.8 PH water when germinating even though everything I have read either says it doesn't make a difference or don't due to minerals in reg. tap water.

BTW using reg. tap water with 7.0 PH before adjustments.

5/5 in 31 hrs. Only one girl is having trouble in the medium, but she is still in the race.

Haven't looked up the mineral qualities from water dept. yet.

Went and got the Coco a+b. Using CoGr Vega without the boards is viewed as not so good due to the quality of the buffering agent and how the combination of the nutes with the boards effect nitrogen and calcium levels.

Thinking about forgoing the cal-mag at the time being.

Going to let them sit for 24 hrs till next water with new nutrients.

Temp rarely goes above 81 and never below 72/73, but this is just the T5 with the two 6500k 14W bulbs.
Humidity fluctuates between 49 and 55%.
Probably a bit low, but once I go to bigger pots and the MH lights humidity should increase to a more suitable level.
However, the humidity I have is almost perfect to keep mold, disease and insects at a minimum.

That's awesome.

Reading a lot about germination and there are too many variables to allow that it is your methods that are wrong for the strain you are trying to germinate.

The one most notable aspect is the age and quality of the seed.

If this is not held to some sort of quality standard its a crap-shoot for a successful germination.

Then again I have read stories about successfully germinating the oldest and most beaten up seeds that produce the most amazing quantity/quality, so.....

Hey Brother GreenThumb...,

I let them go 30hrs. between watering and they seem to have flourished. Awesome advice.

Will stick to watering just before lights out so every 24hrs.

I did purchase the Coco A+B and upped the dose of rhizo to a full dose per your advice.

I also purchased a PH pen and at first I thought it would be just an extravagance, but it turns out I was feeding with over 6.0PH. Guess I'm a bit colorblind....lol

Coco A+B: 4ml/gal
rhizo: 15ml/gal
PH: 5.52
Temp: 25C
PPM: 512

Planning on transplanting to permanent home within the next day or two.

Have read a lot about slowly upsizing pot size to allow for root growth, but so far there isn't any hard fact determining that this is a better method.

I'm going to go with transplanting right into their 5 gall. pots as I believe the less you disturb them the better off your are.

Any thoughts on this?

The canna coco coir is amazing stuff. Still thinking about the cal mag.
They say as long as you are consistent with your runoff you shouldn't have calcium problems while using coco, but am really considering as your advice has produced great results so far.
Thanks, will get around to taking head shots of the girls.

i transplant 2 times. from 1 in. pellet to 4 in. coco pot. and i keep them there untill they show sex. then into 2 gal felt pots. 12/12 from seed alwaaysss.

so i dont really have any experience w larger pot sizes so i cant help you out there.

smart move uping the rhizo and grabbing the coco a+b tho.. and that ph pen too! yes thats a MUST. youll fuck yourself if yu dont ph EVERYTIME.

i wanna throw this out there too.. everyone has there own preferences. but think about it. i try to feed as close to the time that the lights turn on in the morning as possible if not literally simultaneous everyday. your plants metabolize throughout the DAY when they are converting all that light into energy. the earlier you feed them before they are most active the better. they are able to absorb and utilize those nutrients more efficiently.. i can tell you i see optimal growth this way. AND the amount of literal water absorbed (or food eaten) is greater when you feed in the morning. i wouldnt feed right before they sleep .. your getting the inverse effect of what i just described.

thanks too for sharing how you germ. thats awesome and a great way to get them to pop. but ive grown out of using any method where the seed doesnt pop in the medium. i dont like the idea of placing them in the medium once it begins to gain momentum.. if timed wrong, it may not have enough initial energy to get a grip and sprout. but like i said its just all about timing.

and last thing, good luck without the cal-mag. you may be alright but if you begin to grow any heavy indicas specifically, or any hybrid thereof. they WILL need more N and calcium then i feel the a+b is providing alone. you will see discoloration of the bottom sets of leaves very early turning yellow. and/or you will see brown spots and/or curling during early stages of veg. these are all problems ive personally experienced and every single one was cured w a half dose of cal-mag. 2.5ml/gal . let me know how it goes for you!

and before i go i wanted to finally put up a few pictures for you.

this was yesterday. my youngest. one lonely girl. lol. DAY 10. transplant to that coco pot that day:


3 blue widow females. DAY 35/wk 1 flower. tallest one is 9 in. shortest is 7:


2 "auto" strains. 1 white widow and 1 northern lights. DAY 56 / wk 4 flower. WW= 26 in. NL= 35 in:


sorry my battery started to die and my camera wouldnt let me use my flash for the northern light picture. so i gave up. sorry i wasnt able to get any pictures of the grapefruit. but i will put some more up soon! i have 1 and she is on day 84/ wk 8 of flower . would love to see how your doing brother. sorry i wasnt on for a few days but i was having some trouble getting on the site? were you??

untill later man! PEACE!

Nice.

Day 14 above ground seems to be looking good.

Going to transplant to 3 or 5 gallons later.

There is something weird happening at the end of some of the leaves.

Not sure if this is bad or regular in the very first set of leaves after the oval ones.

Check it out, tell me what you think...Really considering that cal-mag...lol

Brother GreenThumb,

I was wondering what is your watering system?

I don't have a tent, more like a super stealth 4'x10'x8'.

Need to devise a way to water when put in bigger pots. With my humidity so low it may be possible to let some stand...?

Anxious to see how the MH and larger pots change the environment for the girls.

Any suggestions?

Just set up the ballast with the 400W MH. Was worried for a bit till it brightened up....lol

Going to let it burn as when I transplant the girls they are going under it. Nervous about the transplant....They look so fragile.

They are starting to show nice signs of tight node growth.

Although this is my first grow I want to try Fimming. Or possibly two tops if FIM not successful. Any thoughts or experiences?

Hey, thefunofit, look into "mainlining". There's a good tutorial by "Nugbuckets". This is my first grow using his technique.

@thefunofit Don't be nervous on transplanting or on potting up multiple times, its all in veg so they can take the stress, they are not so fragile these plant we grow!

@thothmegistus Be interested if you start that thread up, me been in a very similar system to yours, perpetual for around 5 years with the full canna coco range. Defo agree on the cal/mag, it does seem strain dependant, not had much problem with most strains I have ran to be honest. But the bottle of cal/mag is there in case and I use sparingly not too often. I feed normal rather than heavy until I started with OG Kush which even with the heavy feed I had to up it further.