Nute Burn vs Overwatering - Needing some pro advice here!!!

Hey gang.
Just planted my clones in dirt (1:1 pete "micromax" to perlite) for good soil drainage. Fed and watered them (in - ppm 500 ph 5.8 -> out - ppm 1000 ph 6.5) ppm is too high, but left it. I then immediately noticed the next day some yellowing and wilting. I figured that I nute burned the plants, but as they are young, I don't want to drown them either.
I decided that I would chance the drowning, and flush them (water in ppm 110 - ph 6.2 -> outflow ppm 400 - ph 6.9???) .
Now, I'm gonna wait till everything dries out.
Questions are:
1) Why did the ph rises
2) Should I re-pot them in new soil, and perhaps lightly squeeze the pete pellets to drain water out?
3) If I do re-pot them, I do risk burning them a bit more as XP pro-mix does have a fair bit of 20-20-20 in it, even if I do give the medium a rinse before re-potting. BTW, the reason for using this method would be sqeeze any excess water out of the pete pellets, and perhaps let them dry out for a few hours before re-potting. Any advice here would be appreciated.
4) Should I lock myself out of the room for another day and leave these poor ladies dry-out on their own!?!
5) I have immediately turned the CO2 system off when I saw this happen, but “if” things start picking up and the potential root rot has been fixed, should I start the plants off on CO2 at 1000ppm again or hold off!?!

Do not give them any nutes ! the reason is

: The pete has Natural Nutes, wait till the plant fills the pot with its own roots and uses all them nutes up.

Small plants dont require any co2 wait till you put them into flower.


Wait till the small soil dry's out about 2 inches deep. then re-water.

make sure you have around 20ml drainage coming put of the pots , check after 30 mins after watering.

This should help .

Sometimes the leaves Naturally go yellow too, as they use the nutes from the leaves for root growth

Small plants dont require any co2 wait till you put them into flower.

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Why do you think the size of the plant has anything to do with supplementing CO2? Not trying to be contentious but I don't understand your answer.

ScrogThis said:

Why do you think the size of the plant has anything to do with supplementing CO2? Not trying to be contentious but I don't understand your answer.

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I know what you asked, but the way you asked it leaves the question to be answered in different ways.

A plant that is supplemented CO2 will be larger because 80% of the plant's fibers are made of Carbon, this carbon is inhaled from the air, so the more access to carbon the plant has to breathe the greater amount of plant fiber that can be constructed.


But I know what you mean, so I'll rephrase the question:

Why would a small plant not require CO2 supplementation? How does the size of the plant determine its CO2 necessity? Wouldn't any plant, of any size, benefit from supplementation?

I'm too high right now to answer that. I will leave it to someone else.

Yeah I guess I did phrase that poorly though plants are more on the order of 45% carbon. A gross over-simplification: Plants (green ones anyway) use CO2 and water to produce carbohydrates (sucrose, glucose) and oxygen, the sugars are utilized for energy and to produce more plant material; thicker stems, more leaves/branches and more roots, they are also stored as starches. Higher levels of CO2 reduce transpiration and allow photosynthesis to take advantage of higher light levels but requires a higher temperature, higher temperatures without CO2 enrichment will prompt the plant to close the stomata to retain moisture resulting in a lack of CO2 for photosynthesis. My point is that once a plant reaches the stage of growth to begin photosynthesis, it will begin to use CO2. Outside air contains approximately 390 ppm CO2 (indoor concentrations are typically a bit higher due to animals and combustion sources). Numerous studies cite assuming no other limiting factor (light, temperature, water, nutrients), an increase of CO2 concentration to 600 ppm can increase plant growth dramatically, concentrations of 1200-1500 ppm can increase growth rate by 1/3.

So to rephrase my question: Why would you state that

Small plants dont require any co2

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?

^I'd like to hear that explanation, as well.



About the rising PH.... Did you add any lime to the soil? I've had problems with young plants, when I had added too much lime to my soil. I don't add anything anymore, except perlite, until I transplant past the first stage.

Great answers, and I especially enjoyed the CO2 bits. Here is where I'm at. The yeloowing has stopped and the plants are starting to look good. I actually dug up one plant to examine the roots as I have a couple of extras in my spca. The roots look nice and white (as opposed to when I noticed the burning, I noticed that a couple of the roots were starting to turn brown) . Lesson learned. When planting my starts in 4 inch pots, I'm gonna stick to the basics: let me know what you think-> First, before I plant into my 4 inch pots, I will give the medium a good watering with the water ph'd at 6 to wash some of the salts out. Then, plant the starts and water again with Ph to 6, BioGold for some beneficial bacteria, Aussie tonic and thats it. I will add half the required amount of Rhizotonic (which is a killer root enhancer) on the second watering with Aussie tonic. The reason being is that it is extremely alkiline, and having to add tons of PH down can be a little hard on the new roots (i'm guessing here, but being on the safe side).

On my 3rd watering, I will aim to feed a little (try and get the outflow to come out at about 800 ppm, so perhaps feed at about 400-550 ppm depnding on the outflow of previous watering).

And now for the C02 debate. I realize the benefits of C02, but should I stay off it a little longer due to my situation. C02 is great, and I had the room at 1000 ppm when I noticed the issue. That is why I immediately turned the burner off as C02 helps plants grow faster, but also can speed up the burning process of my plant and thus kill them faster. So, the question is, now that I see some positive growth happening, should I start the C02 program now?, wait a few more days?

My other question is that if I am going the root of not really feding my plants for the next watering (and I will see via the runnoff if I should give some ferts on the next watering), can it not be hard on a plant if once you are using C02 that there is not enough nutrients in the medium to support such hunger!?! and then my plants may become nitrogen deficient!?!

Probably overthinking this, but I look forward to your thoughts on this.

Thanks again for participating in this thread.....

It's important that every thing in your environment work together for the benefit of your plants. Assuming you have the other main elements in balance I don't think it would hurt anything to turn your CO2 back on. Here's the thing; just because the plants have the extra CO2 available doesn't mean they'll use it if they don't have the other elements that go along with it (light, water, temperature, food). The CO2 in and of itself will not create a deficiency but it can accelerate your growth meaning the available water, nutes, etc. will be used faster. Does that mean don't turn on the CO2? No it means you may have to water a bit more frequently, that imbalances in pH, nutes, lack of water, etc. will show up more quickly. I'm trying to figure out how to say this without confusing you more, please let me know if it's unclear.

nute burn would show yellow tips of leaves bending down. working its way up the leaf from tip to stem. overwatering would show drooping plants first, then possible yellowing due to lack of oxygen.