Nuggs 2015 russet mite war

mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/239803348_The_Hemp_Russet_Mite
Click to expand...
I am sorry to say that you should pay more attention to your reading materials and sources there. The study you are relying on is describing a mite population that does not actually exist in California-

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/47367446_The_hemp_russet_mite_Aculops_cannabicola_(Farkas_1960)_(Acari_Eriophyoidea)_found_on_Cannabis_sativa_L._in_Serbia_Supplement_to_the_description

If you read the article you will see that it is describing a species that resides in Serbia- and has an affect on industrial hemp and local landrace Sativa varieties (see actual full text notations).

In the citations of the article you provide are links to other articles, which describe further the relations and correlations they are adapting- and premising their conclusions.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/233135149_Host-Parasite_Relationships_in_Cannabis

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/6600585_Commentary_on_Datwyler_SL_Weiblen_GD._Weiblen._Genetic_variation_in_hemp_and_marijuana_(Cannabis_sativa_L.)_according_to_amplified_fragment_length_polymorphisms._J_Forensic_Sci_200651371-5

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/272175591_Thermochemical_pretreatments_for_enhancing_succinic_acid_production_from_industrial_hemp_(Cannabis_sativa_L.)

I sincerely suggest that you actually familiarize yourself with the information contained in all relative articles and cite relative sources prior to proclaiming information inaccurate.

If you go to any local university and locate the appropriate departments you will find correct information regarding the "adapted" species that we are dealing with (see links above for correlative information regarding quoated word). Which are actually far removed from those indicated in the publications you provided.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r783400111.html

http://medicalmarijuana.com/experts/expert/title.cfm?artID=735

http://www.growyourownnevada.com/tomato-russet-mite/

http://archive.org/stream/tomamite00unit/tomamite00unit_djvu.txt

http://hightunnels.org/wp-content/uploads/htinsectcontrol2013.pdf

And the official US gov with regards to particle film application for anthropod erradication and preventative barriers- Pay attention to the microscopic pictures- and refferences to the plants/trees being treated- Then go outside and fucking look around- what is growing around your garden?

http://afrsweb.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/80800000/MGlenn/Book Chapter Particle Film Technolgy.pdf

For you in particular NUGGS what is growing around you?

Locally grown is Corn, potatoes, and a Shit ton of oranges and nuts-

And what did I do? I called professors, and local farmers, I called local orchard owner that I know personally and discussed it with him. I asked him what forms of treatment were effective for him-

And most influentially- is the man that calls the shit years before it happens- and he hasn't been wrong. The proof is in the pudding though and I will tell you this-

Every single one of them listed a wettable sulphur dust (25%, & 75 % DE) as the MOST effective form of eradication.

Every single one of them also indicated to me that the wettable sulphur is not approvved for use on any crop that is ingested by smoking as it will release into harmful vapors. (see US gov study references and citations to discover the studys regarding this).

Every single one of them recommended replacing the sulphur dust with a spray that will absorb into the tissues of the plants (azamax and Cinamite), to use in conjunctions with the DE.

And in response to your post in my thread about Mites in general- No, Mites aren't new- but climate and other influencing factors are new- like the lack of hard frost (as refferenced by NUGGS early, and indicated in several studies about mite controls- and regional/geographic controls).

You attempt to discredit proven methods- and offer no methods to have accredited. The information is all out there for you to read up on- I did that, the way I was taught to by researchers. Second to that I got out in the field and actually got involved with those using the methods in a practical application.

Please consider the information you post and its relativity before you post it- If you would like- CONTACT THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.
 
C

CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
mikeykrinshaw12 said:
I am sorry to say that you should pay more attention to your reading materials and sources there. The study you are relying on is describing a mite population that does not actually exist in California-

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/47367446_The_hemp_russet_mite_Aculops_cannabicola_(Farkas_1960)_(Acari_Eriophyoidea)_found_on_Cannabis_sativa_L._in_Serbia_Supplement_to_the_description

If you read the article you will see that it is describing a species that resides in Serbia- and has an affect on industrial hemp and local landrace Sativa varieties (see actual full text notations).

In the citations of the article you provide are links to other articles, which describe further the relations and correlations they are adapting- and premising their conclusions.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/233135149_Host-Parasite_Relationships_in_Cannabis

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/6600585_Commentary_on_Datwyler_SL_Weiblen_GD._Weiblen._Genetic_variation_in_hemp_and_marijuana_(Cannabis_sativa_L.)_according_to_amplified_fragment_length_polymorphisms._J_Forensic_Sci_200651371-5

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/272175591_Thermochemical_pretreatments_for_enhancing_succinic_acid_production_from_industrial_hemp_(Cannabis_sativa_L.)

I sincerely suggest that you actually familiarize yourself with the information contained in all relative articles and cite relative sources prior to proclaiming information inaccurate.

If you go to any local university and locate the appropriate departments you will find correct information regarding the "adapted" species that we are dealing with (see links above for correlative information regarding quoated word). Which are actually far removed from those indicated in the publications you provided.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r783400111.html

http://medicalmarijuana.com/experts/expert/title.cfm?artID=735

http://www.growyourownnevada.com/tomato-russet-mite/

http://archive.org/stream/tomamite00unit/tomamite00unit_djvu.txt

http://hightunnels.org/wp-content/uploads/htinsectcontrol2013.pdf

And the official US gov with regards to particle film application for anthropod erradication and preventative barriers- Pay attention to the microscopic pictures- and refferences to the plants/trees being treated- Then go outside and fucking look around- what is growing around your garden?

http://afrsweb.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/80800000/MGlenn/Book Chapter Particle Film Technolgy.pdf

For you in particular NUGGS what is growing around you?

Locally grown is Corn, potatoes, and a Shit ton of oranges and nuts-

And what did I do? I called professors, and local farmers, I called local orchard owner that I know personally and discussed it with him. I asked him what forms of treatment were effective for him-

And most influentially- is the man that calls the shit years before it happens- and he hasn't been wrong. The proof is in the pudding though and I will tell you this-

Every single one of them listed a wettable sulphur dust (25%, & 75 % DE) as the MOST effective form of eradication.

Every single one of them also indicated to me that the wettable sulphur is not approvved for use on any crop that is ingested by smoking as it will release into harmful vapors. (see US gov study references and citations to discover the studys regarding this).

Every single one of them recommended replacing the sulphur dust with a spray that will absorb into the tissues of the plants (azamax and Cinamite), to use in conjunctions with the DE.

And in response to your post in my thread about Mites in general- No, Mites aren't new- but climate and other influencing factors are new- like the lack of hard frost (as refferenced by NUGGS early, and indicated in several studies about mite controls- and regional/geographic controls).

You attempt to discredit proven methods- and offer no methods to have accredited. The information is all out there for you to read up on- I did that, the way I was taught to by researchers. Second to that I got out in the field and actually got involved with those using the methods in a practical application.

Please consider the information you post and its relativity before you post it- If you would like- CONTACT THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that info, wow. My suggestions are based on experience. not reports by others. Your ability to cut and paste is impressive as is your joy at being right. I stand by statements.
 
mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
Thank you for that info, wow. My suggestions are based on experience. not reports by others. Your ability to cut and paste is impressive as is your joy at being right. I stand by statements.
Click to expand...
You have made no suggestion other than practicing good hygiene and implying that medical cannabis clubs are the sources.

I agree with practicing good hygiene, and that is a constantly underrated source of infestations. If you read the migratory pattern studies- you will note that once RH moisture on the insides of fruits goes below 60%- the mites are unable to draw enough moisture from the flowers to stay alive (anthropod migration with host species, nightshade), they then migrate. Dry cannabis typically reads at 32-48% internal RH. the terpenes are digestible by the mites, but also are toxic (read the full study that you provided, and in the links to host adaptation you will discern the differences in varieties)

Its obvious your experience is limited to cannabis and you are unaware of the reality of the 48,000+ species- Only 6 of which are harmful to Cannabis in California. we are dealing with a hybridized species of the Hemp/Tomato russet mites, also explained in the links YOU provided. But not just them, but broad mites and others. the treatment I outlined is for those and many many more species of harmful insects (as well as treating harmful UV exposure levels, READ).

You see, I was educated by people that are held accountable for their publications. In scientific writings all sources and outside information must be referenced. I have a great environmental science book that highlights the qualifications for making scientifically recognizable assertions, that I can recommend for you.

These people take these things seriously because they make a living doing it- They grow the food you eat and the smoke you smoke. They collaborate to form the regulations on the practices for treatment on the food you eat and the smoke you smoke. When commercial production begins- you will see similar enforcement on cannabis crops.

They (farmers and ranchers) are the original sources of treatment and infestation- see historical notations of mites in the studies that identifies their host binding and migratory adaptive functions. And you should be so lucky that I care more about other people not getting it wrong, and learning further for myself what is right. I care about the people reading these threads, getting desired results and not walking away allowing something that can make people sick or devastate their crops to continue.

You made a good point about personal hygiene and I hope everyone can recognize that- but to attempt to dispel reality in that, is fallacy (see entry level University material on what is acceptable and what is not, to base claims on or discredit others claims when writing an argument- Stanford).
 
7

757growin

Well-Known Member
I hate research... but am I missing something. Wouldn't a weekly application of lady bugs control this issue? Or are these mites to small or is it because they borrow? :bigjoint:bongsmiliethanks for any good info
 
nuggs

nuggs

Well-Known Member
757 the problem is they multi so fast the lady bugs won't get them all. In my experience with lady bugs is they fly away. You put them out and a couple hours latter they are gone. they work but not good enough to eridacate the borg.
 
nuggs

nuggs

Well-Known Member
in regards to post #103 the DE spreader is not so good. I tried using it today and it's very slow to cover the area. It's like reeling in a fish that never gets to the boat. I'm going to try to make it exspell more DE if I can. Hope no one has ordered one . It's a waste . have to figure out something better.
 
mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
757growin said:
I hate research... but am I missing something. Wouldn't a weekly application of lady bugs control this issue? Or are these mites to small or is it because they borrow? :bigjoint:bongsmiliethanks for any good info
Click to expand...
Lady bugs actually prefer other kinds of food. Lady bugs will also heard populations of food to ensure it doesnt deplete past sufficiently feeding them.

In the links provided above you will find a list (actually a few lists) of predatory mites that will feed on our harmful enemies. and pirate bugs too, but pirate bugs are also hearders. predatory mites are not hearders.

scroll down to page 8 in this link- also remember some predatory mites are succeptable to spray controls. and All mites are susceptible to sulphur and DE applications.

http://hightunnels.org/wp-content/uploads/htinsectcontrol2013.pdf
 
mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
It looks more & more like one of those $700 backpack dusters may be the thing to have for DE....:hump:
Click to expand...

Waste of money- unless you're talking about covering acrage ;) (cropdusters have a variety of dust mixtures and rates you can check with them for reasonable rates as well if you have Large amounts of acrage to cover- 2 or more)


handfuls and handfuls- the stuff is cheap enough.

or if you want to have some fun- half gallon ziplocks and a shot gun ;)

Or if you want to do it more controlled- pressure adjusted nozzle on an air compressor, going into a SealAMeal bag that is sealed but with tons of holes that is pre-filled with DE....

20 oz water bottle with holes poked in lid for focused applications.
 
mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
757growin said:
I hate research... but am I missing something. Wouldn't a weekly application of lady bugs control this issue? Or are these mites to small or is it because they borrow? :bigjoint:bongsmiliethanks for any good info
Click to expand...

Not sure what you think you may be missing... but I just wanted to clarify. Predatory mites wont make any difference if you dont already have an infestation, and thats when you identify the kind of mites you have and decide what kind of predators to buy.

Predatory mites are not preventative- but are a control measure for existing infestations.

The DE, Neem, pyrethrin, sulphur, cinnamite, are all methods of control and eradication- but are more importantly also barriers for protection and to prevent their spread. Cinnamite does kill eggs.

If you are concerned, take preventative action, learn to diagnose the different kinds of mites (no two varieties effect the plants the same exact way).

The only time i typically would recommend introducing predatory mites is for existing infestations past 4 weeks in flower. i do not recommend spraying anything past 4 weeks of flower (as a general rule of precaution for advice giving), and once you are a week into flower you should no longer dust bud sites with DE (but your problem shouldnt be a problem at that point anymore.) A good dusting prior to flower will help prevent infestations that appear around this time because it is when optimal conditions return for mites (they don't like the heat of the summer so much and slow down, but spread like crazy August/sept/oct)

Also a word of forewarning to anyone hoping to work with clubs- They don't care what kind of mites they are, they will turn you down or greatly reduce the value of your meds based on the presence of ANY mites, or other non/cannabis material found under a scope. Mite flesh actually evaporates at 180 degrees F, and there are no harmful chemical residues or gaseous releases caused by their combustion. But you could spray spinosad, neem, etc and they wont typically notice as long as they cant smell it- but you can identify the effects of use of these products with a scope if you know what to look for (spinosad can turn trichs purple and blue when light passes through them, neem oils will actually coagulate between trichomes and causes blotches of necrosis below them, sometimes leading to mold.
 
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nuggs

nuggs

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
It looks more & more like one of those $700 backpack dusters may be the thing to have for spraying DE....:hump:
Click to expand...
I plan to revise the spreader I bought to see if I can get it to work better. I might need to get a backpack too.
 
nuggs

nuggs

Well-Known Member
it's not applying enough DE . very thin layer. I need to look at it better to see if I can make it spread more of the product.
It would be great for indoor I think.
 
mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
nuggs said:
it's not applying enough DE . very thin layer. I need to look at it better to see if I can make it spread more of the product.
It would be great for indoor I think.
Click to expand...
if you have an air compressor I seriously suggest you try the method I posted above. 1/2 hr of prep and it works (35-45 psi, 18" SealAMeal, 1 lb DE, thumb tack)
 
C

CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
mikeykrinshaw12 said:
You have made no suggestion other than practicing good hygiene and implying that medical cannabis clubs are the sources.

I agree with practicing good hygiene, and that is a constantly underrated source of infestations. If you read the migratory pattern studies- you will note that once RH moisture on the insides of fruits goes below 60%- the mites are unable to draw enough moisture from the flowers to stay alive (anthropod migration with host species, nightshade), they then migrate. Dry cannabis typically reads at 32-48% internal RH. the terpenes are digestible by the mites, but also are toxic (read the full study that you provided, and in the links to host adaptation you will discern the differences in varieties)

Its obvious your experience is limited to cannabis and you are unaware of the reality of the 48,000+ species- Only 6 of which are harmful to Cannabis in California. we are dealing with a hybridized species of the Hemp/Tomato russet mites, also explained in the links YOU provided. But not just them, but broad mites and others. the treatment I outlined is for those and many many more species of harmful insects (as well as treating harmful UV exposure levels, READ).

You see, I was educated by people that are held accountable for their publications. In scientific writings all sources and outside information must be referenced. I have a great environmental science book that highlights the qualifications for making scientifically recognizable assertions, that I can recommend for you.

These people take these things seriously because they make a living doing it- They grow the food you eat and the smoke you smoke. They collaborate to form the regulations on the practices for treatment on the food you eat and the smoke you smoke. When commercial production begins- you will see similar enforcement on cannabis crops.

They (farmers and ranchers) are the original sources of treatment and infestation- see historical notations of mites in the studies that identifies their host binding and migratory adaptive functions. And you should be so lucky that I care more about other people not getting it wrong, and learning further for myself what is right. I care about the people reading these threads, getting desired results and not walking away allowing something that can make people sick or devastate their crops to continue.

You made a good point about personal hygiene and I hope everyone can recognize that- but to attempt to dispel reality in that, is fallacy (see entry level University material on what is acceptable and what is not, to base claims on or discredit others claims when writing an argument- Stanford).
Click to expand...
sir, First of all you need to be right, I get that. After that you make assumptions based on...assumptions. This is a cannabis forum you are posting on so most of what you are offering will go way past most people reading it so who are you doing this for? Your arrogance is impressive but of no use to people with insect problems. I has become obvious to me that while you can regurgitate vast amounts of information you are having a difficult time sorting through what is most useful, that happens when you overwhelm yourself.
 
mikeykrinshaw12

mikeykrinshaw12

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
sir, First of all you need to be right, I get that. After that you make assumptions based on...assumptions. This is a cannabis forum you are posting on so most of what you are offering will go way past most people reading it so who are you doing this for? Your arrogance is impressive but of no use to people with insect problems. I has become obvious to me that while you can regurgitate vast amounts of information you are having a difficult time sorting through what is most useful, that happens when you overwhelm yourself.
Click to expand...
the OP of the thread maybe? Who has understood everything I have written, and gained at least a little from it- any passerby that would care to understand how to deal with the issue, what causes the issue, and is not shortsighted but can see into next year or the end of this season at least.

What has been assumed (other than my assumption to your experiences)?

And hey- I am watching these methods work before my eyes, am using the methods Now, and have done so since a child. Having grown our own food and not wanting to get sick. You fail to understand that all I have done is provide information that supported my original claims and recommendations. It's called empirical data. Why do you insist on making a D of yourself?

Why bicker and make personal attacks? Why not focus on the topic and offer something that actually supports your statements, or actually make productive recommendations for desired results?

Take a shower and dont go to clubs? <<< so far that is about all that you have offered. Rather than actually offer something that supports your claims not to spray or use DE or according to you Nothing I say will work.... until you say it right?

So- you respond with childish banter or useless bickering- I will no longer respond. Offer up something Tangible, testable..... something.

What should nuggs do? besides take a shower and stay away from the club. Because he has them and they keep coming back..... Help him, help others, provide useful information because that would be cool. Arguing with the guy that is proving his shit just makes you look bad, and wastes peoples time. If you do have some info that could be useful that I don't know about- That would be awesome and I would love to learn about it. I already agreed with your hygiene comment and supported it.

Give up the Ad Hominem!!! Build your Ethos, maybe employ some Pathos, and most certainly- Logos will win you the day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Dont really care- I know I come off as arrogant, cocky, brash, know it all.... But my humility is there, compassion, and kindness- otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to help and learn.

What works CC Dobbs?
 
nuggs

nuggs

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
sir, First of all you need to be right, I get that. After that you make assumptions based on...assumptions. This is a cannabis forum you are posting on so most of what you are offering will go way past most people reading it so who are you doing this for? Your arrogance is impressive but of no use to people with insect problems. I has become obvious to me that while you can regurgitate vast amounts of information you are having a difficult time sorting through what is most useful, that happens when you overwhelm yourself.
Click to expand...
The information he is posting is for me and anyone else that can understand what and why he is posting it. I've been researching this for about a year now. everyday I research to find the answers that mikey has found for me. this is a cannabis forum and the bugs have gotten a major % of my grow the past 2 years. He is arrogant to someone who doesn't understand why he is digging so hard and deep to learn how to eradicate these insects from our grows. you can take it as you wish but. I think you would be a lot more perceptive to what he is writing about if you were infested with these insects. what he posts is correct information . He was raised in a environment where family and schooling has studied these and other insects for a living.

After what he has posted these past few months and the count less hours of phone conversations I feel comfortable with my medical grow for the season coming up . I think I can control my area and what to do if I do get infested. Instead of spraying one thing after another as suggested by everyone that has a grow store.
so this is a fact. these insects go much deeper than washing ones hands and the theory of them being spread by a club selling insects in their products. I do appreciate you voicing your opinion and it helped to get some important information posted that I was looking for over the past year.
 
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