Not Your Father's Marijuana and other myths

babygro said:

However, those of us growing illegally in wardrobes are hardly likely to want to bring attention to ourselves (or what we might be doing illegally) by becoming Cannabis Activists.

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Good point, well made. However, there's things you can do without necessarily poking your head up too far. Letters to the editor of the local paper don't need to be in your given name. Anyone who can start up a Gmail has a reasonably untraceable email addy (without a subpoena, anyway). You can start up a blog on WordPress.com or Blogger and pitch the story, but direct contacts with lawmakers are best.

There's stuff you can do. Agreed, not as much as being fully on the hunt as is Angel Raich, but here and there, you can support the cause.

Bullshit story o' the week:

Asian gangs develop highly potent cannabis strain

By Keith Moor

May 14, 2007 07:50am
Article from: The Daily Telegraph


POLICE fear a new form of incredibly potent cannabis is destined to hit Australia.

Vietnamese criminal gangs in Canada have developed a sophisticated method of growing the plant indoors year round.

It greatly increases both the yield and potency of the cannabis and cuts growing time.

Latest criminal intelligence suggests that Australia-based Vietnamese drug dealers have travelled to Canada to learn how to cultivate the highly addictive cannabis.

They are expected to use this knowledge to grow and sell it in Australia.

The new threat was revealed in the Australian Crime Commission's annual Illicit Drug Data Report.

Justice Minister David Johnston said the amount of illegal drugs seized had decreased from 13 tonnes in 2004-05 to six tonnes in 2005-06, but the number of drug arrests had increased.

"We have more people arrested for less weight,'' Mr Johnston said.

The report reveals that cannabis is the most commonly used illicit drug in this country.

Cannabis arrests account for almost 70 per cent of drug arrests in Australia.

The number of detections of heroin in 2005-06, which reached 300, was the highest annual number on record.

But the weight of heroin detected at the Australian border (45.6kg) was the lowest since 1995-96.

Heroin arrests now account for fewer than 3 per cent of all drug arrests.

Australian Crime Commission chief executive Alastair Milroy said seven criminal syndicates in eastern Australia had recently been smashed.

He said criminals often changed the way they obtained amphetamines.

"Criminals change their methodology once barriers are put in place ... and there is a likelihood that criminals will try to source these products in Australia by either targeting transport of pseudoephedrine or warehouses,'' Mr Milroy said.

Authorities believed outlaw motorcycle gangs did not control all the amphetamine manufacturing and distribution in Australia, he said.

"The recent intelligence suggests that there's lots of what ... I think the Chinese call ant-style trafficking, where you have lots of people bringing in smaller amounts and that's to avoid detection,'' Gino Vumbaca, of the Australian National Council on Drugs, said on ABC Radio.

Frightening statistics
The report revealed:
* Two million Australians have used amphetamines and about 5.5million have tried cannabis
* At least 100,000 ecstasy pills are used every weekend in Australia
* Australia has the world's highest rate of ecstasy consumption
* Twenty per cent of Australians aged 20 to29take ecstasy
* Drug users told a national survey that heroin, amphetamines, ecstasy, cannabis and cocaine were easy or very easy to get
* Almost 79,000 people were arrested for drug offences in 2005-06

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This is Rupert Murdoch's right-wing zero-tolerance drug propaganda machine in high gear- and being some racist twats while they're at it.

I bet Sensi would be really pissed off if they'd been out super-weeded by a Vietnamese crime gang who went to Canada to learn how to grow dope.

What a SCREAM. Have you heard anything funnier?

This is a prime example of propaganda deserving a a letter-to-the-editor.

the only thing funnier than that is the movie reefer madness, one toke of a marijuana cig. will send you INSANE!!! hahaha
thanks for the thread al b.

Al B. Fuct said:

Bullshit story o' the week:

This is Rupert Murdoch's right-wing zero-tolerance drug propaganda machine in high gear- and being some racist twats while they're at it.

I bet Sensi would be really pissed off if they'd been out super-weeded by a Vietnamese crime gang who went to Canada to learn how to grow dope.

What a SCREAM. Have you heard anything funnier?

This is a prime example of propaganda deserving a a letter-to-the-editor.

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This is a perfect example of the kind of information anyone that believes Marijuana should be legalized should use to go on offense. Tell the other side of the story using thier statistics.
Not only would sensi be pissed a lot of soldiers that were in Nam would be real suprized. Vietnamese need to go to Canada to learn how to grow weed? UH... no I don't think so.
I think they may just go there to grow some of thier best strains closer to thier biggest market, the good old USA. From what I have heard we are way behind other coutries in our use of Hydro for crops, so I would assume we are still behind in MJ Hydro which would mean we import some.
Harley, the education wing from my hydro shop says Australia is so far ahead of us in using available sceince to grow crops we will probably never catch up. And MJ is still the #1 cash crop grown in the US. More than corn and soybeans combined.
Make the first part of the article appear as ridicules as it is. Point out that the same story about Vietnamese or Asian gangs growing the same thing for sale in the US. And I believe they recently 'smashed' a big gang in Canada. Apperently 'those people' are all just criminals. Racist, I uh don't see any racism here???
And there is a lot more good news here. I don't know the population of Austrailia so I'm not sure what % of the population 5.5 Million is. 79,000 arrests for drugs, 70% marijane (whoops Cannibus) 55,300. Leaving 23,700 for all of the other drugs combined. And yet only 300 went through the 'Gate' to heroin. With .54% of the drug arrests, did any one od on heroin?? With 70% of the 'drug users' did anyone od on CANNIBUS, even this 'highly addictive' 'Vietnamese gang' CANNIBUS. I may not know the population of Australia, I do know the answer to this question. If there were one reported death from an overdose of CANNIBUS , it would immedeiatly be world wise news.
Anyone that follows up and finds out what the % are for the rest of the drugs can point out the difference. What these 'Facts' show is that CANNIBUS is not a class 1 drug, and is not a 'Gateway drug'. In 'fuct' what they show is that they are lying again. Or they are saying "We should 'legalize' these lower grade non-addictive strains"
The 'Frightening statistics' prove that Aussie are sharing people. 2,000,000 million amphetamine users share 100,000 pills every weekend.
29% of the population age 20 to 29 take ecstacy. How many people is that? Any one ever have a problem?
If 'legalizing' MJ could save 70% of the 'drug war costs', how much money would that be? In the Massachusts study the saving in 'court cost' were around 4 times the savings to the poloice department savings, and they didn't include the savings that would be realized by not incarcerating people for possesion of CANNIBUS.
If I knew how I would put it in my signature, ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID. We have to go on offense.

great post VV!

i am moving more and more toward semi-public activism and it's odd, but i feel safer.

by doing nothing i'm ushering in another period of wasted time, more poor people suffering under the reign of mega-politico-corporate drug policies (please do not confuse this with capitalism). there are kids going to jail for weed. there are people in pain who need not be. there are adults living lives of deception for fear of losing what they've earned. billions of hard earned dollars thrown down the drain. this is no longer acceptable to me.

i don't blatantly come out and incriminate myself but my views are well known and i will take anyone to task in public when given the opportunity if it's appropriate. i also personally contact my state reps on a regular basis with the intent of meeting them face to face and being a source of info for them as the issue comes into focus...

point is, take whatever risk is acceptable to you. for me, the certainty of continued injustice is enough reason to do my part.

babygro said:

Al B, I know where you're coming from with this and I tend to agree with it.

However, those of us growing illegally in wardrobes are hardly likely to want to bring attention to ourselves (or what we might be doing illegally) by becoming Cannabis Activists. A lot of people are simply not in the position to be able to draw attention to themselves in this way.

This bascially means the Medical users, growing legally must carry the 'activist' torch for the rest of us, because they can grow legally and within the law, and thus have nothing to lose by drawing attention to themselves.

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.

VictorVIcious said:

And there is a lot more good news here. I don't know the population of Austrailia so I'm not sure what % of the population 5.5 Million is.

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The population of Australia just passed 20 million in 2006. There's more people in the individual greater LA & NYC metro areas than in all of Australia. Remember, Australia is almost exactly the same geographical size of the continental USA, which has 300 million.

I'd say the '5.5 million' figure for at-least-once cannabis users in Aus is REALLY low. You could very safely double that number. According to the UN, Australia has the 2nd highest number of pot smokers per capita on earth, beaten only by those serious potheads down in New Zealand, which has 3.5 million people- and 60 million sheep.

The levels and patterns of illicit drug use in the selected English-speaking countries vary considerably (Table 6.5). Marijuana/cannabis use in the previous 12 months is most prevalent in New Zealand (20.0%) and least prevalent in Canada (8.9%).

Substance Australia Canada New Zealand United Kingdom(b) United States
Marijuana/cannabis 15.0% 8.9% 20.0% 9.4% 9.3%

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VictorVIcious said:

And marijuana is still the #1 cash crop grown in the US. More than corn and soybeans combined.

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If cannabis was legalised, the bottom would fall out of the market. The prices of cannabis are obviously inflated to compensate the grower for the risks taken.

I mathed out my ACTUAL cost per oz to grow dope a few years back; when you add up all the supplies and electricity, my cost to produce buds is only about $17-18 per oz. If I could grow dope in the back yard, you could cut that by 80% or more.

However, if cannabis were legalised, every stoner and his mate would plant like mad for the first summer- and then give up when they worked out how hard it really is to grow good buds! Anyone can grow grapes- few can make fine wine. It's not like planting petunias and watching them go.

You are right to be concerned about the price falling. A lot of how it would work depends on how you set it up. When they had the balllot proposal in Colorado they set the 'sintax' at $45.00/oz and almost passed the initiative. I would set it $11.25/ 1/4oz. By setting the 'sintax' by weight you can take the state out of it. I ahve seen some of the prices for MMJ in some of the states where it is legal and it doesn't look to me like the price dropped. A few years ago the price for MMJ in Canada was around $200.00/ oz. and its pretty low grade. Like you said maybe the first year a lot of folks would try to grow there own, and then just buy it. Plus the tourist industry, in the first state that legalizes it would keep the price up. Look at the prices in Amsterdam. Seem like they have fallen a lot? VV

Al B. Fuct said:

Australia has the 2nd highest number of pot smokers per capita on earth,

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AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
OI OI OI
nbow time for a joint or 39

Yeah, agreed, a cannabis tax of a million bucks a gram is the same as prohibition.

It's really hard to forecast what a legalised market would pay for pot and in what forms it would be sold.

You know that commercial tobacco concerns have LONG been preparing to market pot if legalised. The tobacco companies also own breweries and other alcohol making concerns- and they are hedging their bets. I suspect we may even see tailor-made joints in packs like tobacco cigarettes.

You can rest assured that buying pouches of nice nuggie buds as we do now will be harder. It'd be difficult to scale proper bud manicuring up to huge commercial levels and transporting the finished buds so they arrive in decent condition.

In the 1970s, the 'bricked' stuff out of Mexico & Sth America was the absolute bane of the pot market. It would partially ferment/compost in the middle of the brick. Always a musty mouldy scent. Yuk. Never again.

I haven't been to Amsto in a few years, can't comment on the prices.

Excellent thread ...

On the potency levels increasing over time: I say BS to that. The most potent weed I've ever smoked was grown in a vacant lot behind a friend of a friend's house in San Diego. He had some Mexican bag weed and threw some seeds over the fence. One sprouted and he watered it ... not on a regular basis. The plant grew and about half way through the vegging cycle, it was run over by a truck and got squashed real good. My friend and I ended up with about an ounce off of that plant. This is no lie ... three hits off of a pinner rolled from that stuff was like a six hour high on mescaline. Did we save any seeds? Of course not, like all the rest of you who smoked the great stuff back in the day ... we were to stupid to think about it. *lol*

Vi

cannbis will never be legal because it is a gateway drug. the true breeds that are landraces from the good ol days will never be realized if pot was legal. these tobacco and alcohol companies will find the cheapiest way to grow and transport the shit, full of chemicals, pesticides and preservatives to a processing plant with more added chemicals to prep the goods. cancer, health problems, i personally would rather it stay illegal and everyone be oblivious to the laws. to think that this wonderful plant is illegal because the governtment doesnt "KNOW" whats good about it is BS!. they know it is a gateway drug, the gateway to enlightenment and peace/ ras dafari says it is the vehicle that we use to travel. the governtment knows what this holy plant is good, their system works because the majority are brainwashed uneducated beasts, not freethinking pot heads of nature! pot is dangerous because it causes you to question your governtment, simple as that. tell the truth about hemp!

you can say that again
HEMP will save the world !!

sk3tch3 said:

cannbis will never be legal because it is a gateway drug.

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Sorry, that's drug-war propaganda. 99% of heroin users were once milk drinkers, ergo milk is the gateway to heroin.

Not buying it.

The only gateway happening here is that prohibition creates an uncontrollable black market in drugs... and many dope dealers sell more than one drug. If cannabis were legal, most cannabis users wouldn't go anywhere near other drugs.

Required reading:

The Myth of Marijuana's Gateway Effect


History of the Marijuana Gateway Myth

Al B. Fuct said:

....Sorry, that's drug-war propaganda. ....

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i dont think you read my whole post there Al. try again. I try not to even use the "M" word. cannabis, hemp... propaganda indeed

Al B. Fuct said:

Not buying it.

The only gateway happening here is that prohibition creates an uncontrollable black market in drugs... and many dope dealers sell more than one drug. If cannabis were legal, most cannabis users wouldn't go anywhere near other drugs.

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Absolutely right Al B, I don't buy it either.

There are no statistics to support the view that Cannabis is a 'gateway' drug, there are stats however that support the view that it isn't, but people choose to ignore them. People will beleive anything they want to, ergo Tony Blairs insistence on the existence of the 'supposed' Weapons of Mass destruction. None were ever found, but that didn't stop him continuing to beleive they existed - because it suited his case to do so - same with Cannabis.

Any normal properly functioning government whose members had half a brain cell would look at the best possible example of 'relaxed' Cannabis use - the situation in Holland and draw conclusions from that. Do they? Of course they don't, they ignore it, because it's simply not what they want to beleive.

The situation in Holland is an interesting one, but only from the perspective of whether Cannabis is actually a 'gateway' drug because Cannabis use in Holland is still illegal, it has not been legalised nor has it been decriminalised. Don't confuse a law enforcement 'tolerance' to Cannabis use in Holland with 'acceptance' and legalisation of it's use.

If anything the authorities are cracking down on Cannabis use in Holland by the non-renewal of Coffee Shop licenses they're slowly whittling down the numbers of Cafe's licensed to sell Cannabis. The authorities have successfully driven most if not all of the breeders and growers indoors hence the 'blandness' of a lot of Dutch genetics over the last couple of years. This has come mostly from the EU exerting pressure on the Dutch authorities to get more of a grip on the Cannabis situation and primarily to try and cut off the exportation of Cannabis from one of Hollands many seaports to their own countries. Interesting in how Holland is having to take action when faced with criticism from the EU of their 'relaxed' Cannabis tolerance.

So what prompted Holland to take a 'relaxed' stance to Cannabis use in the first place?

Primarily to try and deal with the increasing problem of hard drug use and in terms of having that as an objective, their 'relaxed' stance to Cannabis use was largely successful as 'harder' drug use declined during the period of 'relaxed tolerance'. Cannabis use increased very slightly but the main point was that separating Cannabis users from 'harder' drug users and sellers actually produced a reduction in 'harder' drug use over that timeframe.

So this very much 'flies in the face' of conventional 'authoritarian' view that Cannabis use is a 'gateway' drug to harder drugs.

The pressure the European Union is bringing to bear on Holland is a direct result of the conflicting statistical findings regarding Cannabis being a 'gateway' drug and simply use the reason of Cannbis exports from Holland as a convenience.

I read a report from a UK Government committee setup to assess the 'viability' of Medical Cannabis use and full legalisation. I read about 50% of it and got to the conclusions which surprised me somewhat. Whilst they felt that Medical Cannabis use was viable, they did not recommend legalisation and listed a number of reasons why.

You could have printed out all those reasons on a big board and put a little flap of paper over each instance of the use of the word 'Cannabis' and written either 'alchohol' or 'tobacco' and reading back those reasons with the word Cannabis covered up would still have made perfect sense. Being able to do this proves quite clearly that Cannabis is no worse (and in many instances far better) than either Tobacco or Alchohol - two legalised drugs.

The bottom line is, the governments do not want to legalise Cannabis. Their reasons for not wanting to don't stand up, but that doesn't matter because it's what they want to beleive or spin out as 'reasons'.

Governments are 'funded' by big business, big business does not want the threat of Cannabis to its traditional profitable strongholds of alchohol and tobacco. Not too hard to see why the piper simply plays the tune to the one who pays him.

HA! 1000X that would be some sweet shit. Fucking dumbass government

al b and babygrow are both still silly.

HE SAID GATEWAY TO ENLIGHTENMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ssshhhhheeeeeessssshhhhhhhhh. read the post.

fdd2blk said:

al b and babygrow are both still silly.

HE SAID GATEWAY TO ENLIGHTENMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ssshhhhheeeeeessssshhhhhhhhh. read the post.

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I'd rather be silly and interpret something correctly than be an smart ass and interpret it incorrectly.

He meant 'we' interpret it as a 'gateway to enlightenment' the government see it as a 'gateway to other drugs'.

I really don't see the relevance of how 'we' see something, when the discussion topic was about how the government 'sees something', and one of those things is that Canna leads to harder drugs hence it's a 'gateway' drug as viewed by the government.

Switch your brain on.

fdd and enligthenment in the same sentence. LOL

Sorry fdd that isn't the least bit funny....snort.....snort....ROFL