Newbie to Hydro, Have 8 girls going - health check

Hi Folks,

I posted on here way back in September about my setup: http://rollitup.org/t/questions-on-potential-grow-tent-setup-looking-at-rdwc.883239

I have executed the 4x4 tent, with the DWC tote and eight plants. I decided against HPS and went with LED, though, for a number of reasons. Not that that is relevant at this time, but more an FYI.

I wanted to show you guys my "day one" pictures and my "day three" pictures of the two blue dreams to the left of the tote. Day one is the LED light on, Day three is the two with standard flash.

My Q: It's drooping just a little IMO - am I seeing things?

If not, what could be the issue(s)? The rockwools are a bit on the moist side. It's getting 18 hours of light a day, the ppm is ~450 and the pH is ~6.5.

Ph is too high at 6.5 for hydro. Needs to be at 5.8 ASAP for starters. Also, that's a lot of plants for dwc in such a small area. How do the roots look?

@blackforest I actually did just drop the pH closer to 6 as it had soared up to 7.something... The roots haven't popped out of the net pots yet so I can't say... I just dropped them in there two days ago so not sure if they should be out yet.

I agree, it is too small a space, 2nd iteration will be a larger tote for sure, and deeper net pots.

Bluntsmith said:

@blackforest I actually did just drop the pH closer to 6 as it had soared up to 7.something... The roots haven't popped out of the net pots yet so I can't say... I just dropped them in there two days ago so not sure if they should be out yet.

I agree, it is too small a space, 2nd iteration will be a larger tote for sure, and deeper net pots.

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What are you top feeding them with? They are drooping because they don't like the ph of the water/solution. Personally for me, I like to use zone or h2o2 when the roots are still developing in the net pots. It will ensure you are sterile, it also helps tremendously for root development. Then you can switch over to a beneficial or stick with a sterilizer, but you should be using one or the other throughout the grow imo. PH should be 5.5-5.8 for the beginning in hydro, then can be closer to 6.0-6.3 for flower. Hope it works out for you.

@blackforest I'm not top feeding them with anything right now. How, and how much h2o2 should I apply? I'm pretty clueless to that but now that I have begun reading up on it, it makes sense. Thanks so much for the help, I will keep the pH down in veg, and do some top feeding too if it means i can keep the rock wool and the tote to be sterile

Bluntsmith said:

@blackforest I'm not top feeding them with anything right now. How, and how much h2o2 should I apply? I'm pretty clueless to that but now that I have begun reading up on it, it makes sense. Thanks so much for the help, I will keep the pH down in veg, and do some top feeding too if it means i can keep the rock wool and the tote to be sterile

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Have the roots come out of the rockwool yet? If so, they need some water/nutes, just don't drown them. at the hydro shop the h2o2 is usually about 30% which the bottle states at 3ml/gal. It evaporates quickly, so it does not last but for a couple of days for each application.

blackforest said:

Have the roots come out of the rockwool yet? If so, they need some water/nutes, just don't drown them. at the hydro shop the h2o2 is usually about 30% which the bottle states at 3ml/gal. It evaporates quickly, so it does not last but for a couple of days for each application.

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No they haven't. On a somewhat related note, the rockwool is pretty tall, though, and some of it is submerged in water, which freaks me out a bit. Is it better to leave it sticking out the top than be submerged? Or is it okay if that's the case? Not sure of the implications there.

I'll scoop up some h2o2 at the shop and drop some in in the next couple days.

As for nutes, right now because of the PPM of the tap water here (~420, ironically enough), I don't have nutes in there. I plan to start adding them once they get a little bigger. I know that's not best practice but I don't have a great source for tons of filtered water right now so I thought I'd try this. Do you think I should put some grow nutes in there? I did just pick up the general hydro flora series, but again, was waiting til they're a bit bigger because of the PPM of the tap.

That's a high tap water ppm, that is close to not even being drinkable. 500ppm is the highest suggested for drinking water. Have you researched on if that high of ppm tap will cause problems or not because it kinda seems iffy? Idk if it will or not but i'd look around if I were you if you havnt already.

Anywayy, those are def drooping, more than a little. I'm assuming those are clones which i've never dealt with so I can't really give the best advice but by you saying the rockwool cubes are submirsed in water I'd say that could possibly be your problem(or its just a clone getting used to growing roots thing). And yeah i'd give at least 100ppm of nutes for now. Also those plants are really lanky, maybe cuz they're clones? I would suggest topping to slow that lankyness down, at least on the tall one there and keep light close to reduce stretch.

And as already said the PH needs to get under control.

Anon Emaus said:

That's a high tap water ppm, that is close to not even being drinkable. 500ppm is the highest suggested for drinking water. Have you researched on if that high of ppm tap will cause problems or not because it kinda seems iffy? Idk if it will or not but i'd look around if I were you if you havnt already.

Anywayy, those are def drooping, more than a little. I'm assuming those are clones which i've never dealt with so I can't really give the best advice but by you saying the rockwool cubes are submirsed in water I'd say that could possibly be your problem(or its just a clone getting used to growing roots thing). And yeah i'd give at least 100ppm of nutes for now. Also those plants are really lanky, maybe cuz they're clones? I would suggest topping to slow that lankyness down, at least on the tall one there and keep light close to reduce stretch.

And as already said the PH needs to get under control.

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thanks mate. you're right, it is more than a little. i dropped the pH now to mid 5. i put in 100 ppm of grow nutes, and i topped the tallest plant, which is also the droopiest. it seems the blue dreams (the ones on the left) are impacted more than the skywalkers (the 6 on the right) by the shock they're experiencing. i still do see new growth on even the blue dreams so hopefully i can figure out the balances here and get back on track.

how long might it take for them to bounce back once it levels out? is it something i can see in a day, or does it take a little while? just want to make sure i'm doing everything i can for my girls.

PS - if any of you hydro vets are open to dialoguing/advising with me directly during my maiden run (by text/email/etc), I can thank you with an amazon gift card or something of the sort. Would love an adviser to help me while I figure shit out. The board ABSOLUTELY helps but I feel like some back and forth will help me resolve this even quicker. Just a thought, folks.

Bluntsmith said:

thanks mate. you're right, it is more than a little. i dropped the pH now to mid 5. i put in 100 ppm of grow nutes, and i topped the tallest plant, which is also the droopiest. it seems the blue dreams (the ones on the left) are impacted more than the skywalkers (the 6 on the right) by the shock they're experiencing. i still do see new growth on even the blue dreams so hopefully i can figure out the balances here and get back on track.

how long might it take for them to bounce back once it levels out? is it something i can see in a day, or does it take a little while? just want to make sure i'm doing everything i can for my girls.

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hopefully someone familiar with clones could chime in, I think they would have the best answer and advice. I would suspect once they get rooted we'll have a better idea of whats going on here. To get some faster answers i'd suggest reading up on getting clones rolling and you should find answers there.

thanks @Anon Emaus and @blackforest for the help fellas. this place is so awesome thanks to folks like you. any other help is appreciated!

i'll definitely read up on getting a clone going.

I've used rooters for clone but never rockwool, though it is about the same for baby's. We leave clones go until they have a bit of root hanging out before we bucket them. Pic are of raw clones but the root system is what we look for in any situation, rooters or from the cloner.

Best I can say now is keep the ph at or around 6.0 and give them some time.

An update! They're hopefully on the upswing - at the very least they've ALL stabilized, which is near-miracle considering how they looked on Friday.

I went into a local hydro shop here in Lost Angels and he advised me that the clones I purchased had rockwool that was extra tall (3-4"), and that as a result it was saturating the rockwool. So, I had to trim back as much of the rockwool as I possibly could, so that they'd sit better in my 3" netpots, ABOVE the water line.

It was not easy, but I got my Dr Greenthumb on best I could, with some scissors and a steak knife (serrated edge helped to whisk away tufts of rockwool).

Per @blackforest's suggestion (and the shop I went to), I am now top feeding 1 or 2x a day with a nute solution that also has some Rapid Start in it for root growth acceleration.

Per @Anon Emaus, @blackforest, and @3squared, my pH is now at 5.8-6.0. My PPM is ~550/EC is around 1250.

I also raised my LED light up -- read up on the suggestions from the manufacturer, and they say 18"... it was more like 5-12". I did this because it felt like the leaves up top were getting a little brittle, and I started to fear it was due to the light, since the pH and nutes seem pretty honed in.

At any rate, here are a couple pictures of the surgery, the pile of rockwool I scraped from my 8 babies, and I plan to take some photos of all the girls later for another update.

I pretty much conceded before starting this maiden run that they would all die at some point or another due to inexperience. But I'm doing everything I can to prove myself wrong, thanks in part to this community. My offer still stands - if there's an expert out there who I can reach out to for advice, I'd make it worth your time.

Also, the last pic is a "BEFORE" picture where the rockwool was just sitting up on top of hydroton in an attempt to keep its massive rockwool above water. I'll take some 'after' pics soon.

Always nice to read good news Blunt.

Once they settle in think about nipping the tips of your larger fan leaves to stimulate root growth. It will help you get roots to drop faster.

Alright, I took some pictures of their current state. I wouldn't say they're close to recovered, but they're at least stable where they're at now.

Any clue what could be the issue(s) here guys? I did research on deficiencies but didn't find any that aligned exactly with what I'm seeing.

Again, pH is btw 5.8 and 6.0... PPM is 550, EC reading around 1200... res is 69 degrees...

It looks like every new leaf is closer to lime green... suggestions? Saviors? Beuller?

Also the leaves are curling a bit, some getting crispy at the ends, but by and large most of them are just drooping/curling, not burning. moved the light up yesterday to try to ensure that's not the issue. Should I be throwing some CalMag in there? As of now I have the GH flora series in there, with some rapid start... wondering if i'm overdoing it with nutes now... oh the pains of a noob. haha

I personally wouldn't be that high on nutes, although i've read of people starting at that level. But then again as I said I know nothing of clones so I can't advise, sorry, i wish i could help more. Once the roots are in the water and the plant starts rolling it will be in line with my familiariaty so I can help then but at this point in time I'm kinda just guessing and going off of my experience with plants from seed and would hate to give wrong advice.

It looks like you have a toxicity or defiency though, which could be being caused by a few things, including stress possibly being induced by the process of rooting the clone. Another thought would be toxicity from too high of nutes. I have grown with the GH Flora series and if I remember correctly 550ppm of nutes isn't where you should be yet(if you aren't aware, DO NOT follow the measurements the bottle ever gives, they are way too high, run 1/2 that amount at most). Research as you have seen so far is the key, so google around on "clone rooting stress" maybe you can find someone with a familiar issue.

Are you seeing roots yet?

the plants well live if don't get root rot ( totes suck )
i use a tea and did not change res for a few weeks ppm's 150, 200 ph 5.8 just left alone...

Anon Emaus said:

I personally wouldn't be that high on nutes, although i've read of people starting at that level. But then again as I said I know nothing of clones so I can't advise, sorry, i wish i could help more. Once the roots are in the water and the plant starts rolling it will be in line with my familiariaty so I can help then but at this point in time I'm kinda just guessing and going off of my experience with plants from seed and would hate to give wrong advice.

It looks like you have a toxicity or defiency though, which could be being caused by a few things, including stress possibly being induced by the process of rooting the clone. Another thought would be toxicity from too high of nutes. I have grown with the GH Flora series and if I remember correctly 550ppm of nutes isn't where you should be yet(if you aren't aware, DO NOT follow the measurements the bottle ever gives, they are way too high, run 1/2 that amount at most). Research as you have seen so far is the key, so google around on "clone rooting stress" maybe you can find someone with a familiar issue.

Are you seeing roots yet?

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you know, i started getting pretty scared of the EC levels, especially once i dropped a bunch of cal mag in there. started looking like a real chemical cocktail. so i just dumped everything, started fresh, with 1/2 serving of everything suggested, minus the rapid growth for the roots which i have at around 75%. there's just a splash of calmag in there - 2 ml's for 5 gallons... i see there's a ton of purple on the main stock of the plant and on some leaves, so i figure that's part of the problem too (hence the calmag scare)... highly doubt it's just one problem when it comes to an amateur like myself.

they've been here for a week and grown all of about an inch... good to know i'm basically neutering plants right now haha.

as for the roots question, I do see one that has roots nearing the edge of a net pot. but in general, nah, especially since i operated on them saturday trying to trim down RW, the root growth is slow.

since it's a little delayed during this transition, does this mean i extend the lifecycle out a week too, or is it basically just lost time?