New Led Or Not ?

maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
Little bit more plant info for you all out there. The rate of stomata respiration MUST match the rate of photosynthesis for maximum growth rates. If this does not happen which it so often does in indoor growing, the plant will be seriously under developed and will not give the maximum yields possible. Photosynthesis can outperform breathing and vice versa according to the spectrum of light utilised. Sugars also play an important role in this. So in essence it would be like running a race breathing through a straw or the opposite, sitting on a couch being forced to breathe more that needed (hyperventilating). Hope this makes sense ?
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
maxpesh said:
Little bit more plant info for you all out there. The rate of stomata respiration MUST match the rate of photosynthesis for maximum growth rates. If this does not happen which it so often does in indoor growing, the plant will be seriously under developed and will not give the maximum yields possible. Photosynthesis can outperform breathing and vice versa according to the spectrum of light utilised. Sugars also play an important role in this. So in essence it would be like running a race breathing through a straw or the opposite, sitting on a couch being forced to breathe more that needed (hyperventilating). Hope this makes sense ?
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This is sounds very interesting.....links??
 
T

travish413

Well-Known Member
maxpesh said:
Little bit more plant info for you all out there. The rate of stomata respiration MUST match the rate of photosynthesis for maximum growth rates. If this does not happen which it so often does in indoor growing, the plant will be seriously under developed and will not give the maximum yields possible. Photosynthesis can outperform breathing and vice versa according to the spectrum of light utilised. Sugars also play an important role in this. So in essence it would be like running a race breathing through a straw or the opposite, sitting on a couch being forced to breathe more that needed (hyperventilating). Hope this makes sense ?
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So, I just sat here and read thru every page on this forum thinking i might find some subtle remarks that might link you(you being max) to one of the same old led companies that made false claims in the past. But I didn't find any and really admire your ambition. I myself was thinking of building a led panel but got discouraged due to all the negative feed back from some led users. You seem to be very intellegent and i trust what you say after reading your posts and like everyone else cant wait to see the finished product! I do have a question tho referencing the above qoute... With the rate of stomata opening with radiation how would you match that with the rate of photosythesis?
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
travish413 said:
So, I just sat here and read thru every page on this forum thinking i might find some subtle remarks that might link you(you being max) to one of the same old led companies that made false claims in the past. But I didn't find any and really admire your ambition. I myself was thinking of building a led panel but got discouraged due to all the negative feed back from some led users. You seem to be very intellegent and i trust what you say after reading your posts and like everyone else cant wait to see the finished product! I do have a question tho referencing the above qoute... With the rate of stomata opening with radiation how would you match that with the rate of photosythesis?
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Hi there first of all thank you for the kind comments and no I have never had a previous led company :-) . In answer to your question, the FULL process is not as yet fully understood with regards to all of the processes going on in plants which is one of the reasons that make me laugh about all the ridiculous claims by led company's. However when I was at university many years ago I was (and still am) very good friends with a fellow student doing her degree in plant biology, she is now a professor teaching the subject. She has given me much help and lots of trials and errors have taken place with regards to processes taking place. Now all the pieces are fitting together and the light will be getting manufactured soon with the first trial run starting in about 4 weeks, so sorry it is taking some time to get up and running but the wait will be worth it. Wavelengths have a very different effect on a leaf as opposed to chlorophyll in a petri dish and this has been the main area of study. My belief is that 260 - 280 watts of correct led's AND ratios should replace 600 watts of HID in 10 square feet, but we shall see after the first run, if it doesn't then it's back to the drawing board.

Kind Regards ;-)
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
maxpesh said:
Hi there first of all thank you for the kind comments and no I have never had a previous led company :-) . In answer to your question, the FULL process is not as yet fully understood with regards to all of the processes going on in plants which is one of the reasons that make me laugh about all the ridiculous claims by led company's. However when I was at university many years ago I was (and still am) very good friends with a fellow student doing her degree in plant biology, she is now a professor teaching the subject. She has given me much help and lots of trials and errors have taken place with regards to processes taking place. Now all the pieces are fitting together and the light will be getting manufactured soon with the first trial run starting in about 4 weeks, so sorry it is taking some time to get up and running but the wait will be worth it. Wavelengths have a very different effect on a leaf as opposed to chlorophyll in a petri dish and this has been the main area of study. My belief is that 260 - 280 watts of correct led's AND ratios should replace 600 watts of HID in 10 square feet, but we shall see after the first run, if it doesn't then it's back to the drawing board.

Kind Regards ;-)
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I'm getting anxious waiting for the first run here...........Good luck.
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
Are you vegging now so you can just put them straight under your flowering prototype as soon as you get it? I think everyone who has been following would appreciate that.
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
puffenuff said:
Are you vegging now so you can just put them straight under your flowering prototype as soon as you get it? I think everyone who has been following would appreciate that.
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Hi there puffenuff, yep I think that is probably the best route, finalised the ratios today with some info on trials I was waiting for, it's all looking very promising and the prototype is getting built in 3 weeks time. The case and fans are the same look as Advanced but everything else is different as far as specs are concerned. My fingers are crossed (as well as my legs,arms and bollocks Hehe). I'm ever so sorry that it has taken so long but I just wanted everything right for everyone concerned and I really do not want to let anyone down.

Peace as always ;-)
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
Hey guys, I've got a question to ask ! About some results with LED Vs HPS. I'm just throwing this out there and I'd like your thoughts :-). I've been testing some other LED fixtures against each other but also against HPS , all identical nutes, Ph, temps blah blah blah. So a popular LED advertised as 500watt and consuming approx 280-300W. 2 of these so using 560- 600 watts approx. Barney's farm Pineapple chunk, 8 week flowering strain. 1st run, LED, 8 weeks. Result ???? 260 Grams dry. 2nd run, 600w Philips greenpower, result =467Grams dried. 3rd run,,, 4 weeks flowering on big name LED's (Again 2 of them so 560 - 600 watts consumption) and then a SWAP! to the 600 HPS. The Pineapple chunk wasn't ready for harvest until the end of week 10, yes it went on for another 2 weeks but the harvest came in at 375 grams dried. I have my thoughts on this but would just like some opinions. All grows were identical from cuttings of the same mother plant. No extra CO2, same temps and fed from outside air through a pollen filter to stop any possibility of contamination from outside influences. Why was the last result 10 weeks to finish instead of 8 ?????????????
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
To say "Big Name" LED is meaningless to answering your questions. Most BN are changing chip sets/bulb configs on the fly. Going from 3w chip set to 3 watt diode could be huge by itself, let alone color selection
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
PetFlora said:
To say "Big Name" LED is meaningless to answering your questions. Most BN are changing chip sets/bulb configs on the fly. Going from 3w chip set to 3 watt diode could be huge by itself, let alone color selection
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I agree but I don't really want to name the other company's as I have no desire to bad mouth any others. I'd much rather place my faith in my own ?
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
If we can believe this comparison actually took place, Max likely used the blackstar 500s as they can be considered a "big name," are advertised as 500w but really pull around 300w. Am I wrong?

I have no theory id like to share at this point about why #3 took an extra two weeks to finish. I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts, Max.
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
puffenuff said:
If we can believe this comparison actually took place, Max likely used the blackstar 500s as they can be considered a "big name," are advertised as 500w but really pull around 300w. Am I wrong?

I have no theory id like to share at this point about why #3 took an extra two weeks to finish. I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts, Max.
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I'm not asking you to believe me but I have no reason to lie whatsoever, I just put this out there to get other peoples thoughts as to WHY this would happen !
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Did the panel in #3 have less (630-660nm) reds in it//spectral output issue??? i don't know, just a guess...

What I find impressive about all this, is the fact that Max is going to try to replace a 600w hps with less than half the wattage led panel...that's one hell of a feat.
I hope you nail it Max!!!

be safe and happy growing...
 
maxpesh

maxpesh

Active Member
PSUAGRO. said:
Did the panel in #3 have less (630-660nm) reds in it//spectral output issue??? i don't know, just a guess...

What I find impressive about all this, is the fact that Max is going to try to replace a 600w hps with less than half the wattage led panel...that's one hell of a feat.
I hope you nail it Max!!!

be safe and happy growing...
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No the panel still had the same amount of red ,supposedly 630/660nm. I think I know why it happened but I won't be able to prove it until mine is built. Anyway thanks for your input and yes, I hope I nail it to. I know that replacing 600 watts with 260 - 270 is a tall order but not as tall as other claims of other company's saving 80% in electricity hehe ! At least people are starting to wake up to the fact that something just doesn't add up ?

Take care and happy growing to you too :-)
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
It's not s difficult as you might think. Think Inverse Square Law + radiant heat in too small a space for a 600 hps. Every foot above the ideal distance for max lumen output decreases available output by half. Example:

If one is doing a DWC grow, the radiant heat from an HPS will significantly raise water temps causing all kinds of issues, unless compensated for with insulated table top, those guys are forced to raise the light beyond ideal. I even have this issue with 432 w of T5s
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
It's not s difficult as you might think. Think Inverse Square Law + radiant heat in too small a space for a 600 hps. Every foot above the ideal distance for max lumen output decreases available output by half. Example:

If one is doing a DWC grow, the radiant heat from an HPS will significantly raise water temps causing all kinds of issues, unless compensated for with insulated table top, those guys are forced to raise the light beyond ideal. I even have this issue with 432 w of T5s
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Yes Petflora....some very valid points.....
But lets flip it 180 and also add the fact that many growers use radiant heat to their benefit....from fall to spring while maintaining optimum height(light output)
Then running cooltubes(still keeping optimum height) from spring to fall....I personally don't use them due to lumen depreciation at the bulb/and glass cover(theoretically losing 17-20%!).....
I think the biggest hurdle for LED manufacturers isn't spectral output(still a problem) but actual coverage area....600w hps can effectively cover(FLOWERING) a 4x4 space...can a 300 watt led panel do this???spacing out the leds further apart???using 5w diodes w 120degree lenses???are these solutions??I don't know...
Lots to think about....
 
L

Loper

Active Member
Radiant heat ??..Maybe buy a heat mat ??. I personally don't think with the roots being cooler under Led than under Hps, the plants can keep up with the par of some of these lights.
My 2 pennies.
 
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