Neoliberal Economics is DEAD

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm disappointed by what Obama managed to accomplish but still very glad that McCain wasn't pres for the last 8 years. In RR's world, they are the same, I guess. I still think that the person sitting at this post matters. Some, perhaps many Democrats serve the oligarchy while the oligarchy runs the GOP. There is a difference.

Agree that the difference is not enough to make the changes that I see advocated in this thread.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I'm disappointed by what Obama managed to accomplish but still very glad that McCain wasn't pres for the last 8 years. In RR's world, they are the same, I guess. I still think that the person sitting at this post matters. Some, perhaps many Democrats serve the oligarchy while the oligarchy runs the GOP. There is a difference.

Agree that the difference is not enough to make the changes that I see advocated in this thread.
Our country is now being run as a de facto corporate fascist society, complete with control of the media- none of the large news outlets report anything of real importance, Faux Spews is the official propaganda channel. We have division of society allowing the oligarchs to maintain control, persecution of gays, war on drugs, racism... The police have been militarized and have fewer and looser rules of engagement than the military- who themselves murder millions around the world in the name of some trumped up 'war on terrorism'.

The Rich get what they want from the political system over ninety percent of the time, the OTHER ninety percent get what they want less than nineteen percent of the time.

Fascism is a word that fits the current political situation rather well.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I had to get up an walk away for a while. @ttystikk presents a fairly stark view of where we are today. I needed to think about it. I don't think this is wrong but there is also a lot of good in this country too. As I said in an earlier posting..."not dead yet".

Political science and economics are not my strong suit so I don't have much background to bring to the table in this discussion but here goes: The term fascism is emotionally charged in that the states of Italy and Germany under Mussolini and Hitler were called fascist states. Fascism will be forever tied to death camps and the NAZI SS. I don't think that is what you mean when you use the term.

Fascism is also jargon for a type of political behavior or system. The definition for fascism in the American Heritage Dictionary is :
1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

I don't believe that we are under dictatorial control, oppressive or not, nor do I think that the president of this country holds the power of a dictator.

I think that we are a better fit to the American Heritage dictionary's definition of a republic, albeit a sick one:
re·pub·lic
1.
a.
A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
2.
a.
A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
b. A nation that has such a political order.

Inequality in just about all aspects of this society, you bet, a belligerent nation, yep, an unbalanced electorate where some people have more of a vote than others, agreed. But we aren't a fascist state. At any rate, not by these definitions.

As long as our vote counts, we have the power to freely associate and the power to collectively use that vote, this system is not dead yet.

I'm just putting this out there for discussion and not sure that I fully believe it.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Would it not be fair to say that the current threat to our republic is not fascism but the trend to the rule by an oligarchy of the 500 hundred or so billionaire families? Here is a link to an article on a speech by US Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) at the Brookings Inst. given in Feb this year:
http://billmoyers.com/2015/02/10/bernie-sanders-keeping-us-becoming-oligarchy-struggle-must-win/

pithy comments from the speech:
“We need to take a hard look at our trade policies which have resulted in the outsourcing of millions of good paying jobs,” he continued. “Since 2001 we have lost more than 60,000 factories in this country, and more than 4.9 million decent-paying manufacturing jobs

“We need to end the race to the bottom and develop trade policies which demand that American corporations create jobs here, and not abroad,”

“In today’s highly competitive global economy, millions of Americans are unable to afford the higher education they need in order to get good-paying jobs. Some of our young people have given up the dream of going to college, while others are leaving school deeply in debt.”

Reform must also come to the financial sector, Sanders said.

“We must finally address the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior of Wall Street … Their speculation and illegal behavior plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. In my view, Wall Street is too large and powerful to be reformed. The huge financial institutions must be broken up.”

Finally, Sanders said, the US must “join the rest of the industrialized world and recognize that health care is a right of all, and not a privilege.”

OK, I know ... politician. The thing is, he has a long history on this. Republicans hate him, Democrats are embarrassed by him but allow him to caucus with them (they need his seat in the count for the senate) but he's at least saying what we are talking about here.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
@Fogdog I paint a stark picture for several reasons;

1. To jar people out of their current perception/worldview of how American politics works and its effects on both Americans and the rest of the world.

2. To show with as much contrast as possible how things are NOT really run as a democracy in the traditionally understood sense, but as an oligopoly run by those earning most of the income- and the VAST majority of the wealth. Indeed, a tiny fraction of our country is running the whole show for their personal benefit, the needs of the rest of us- and the consequences- be damned, as long as they're making their profits.

3. To drill down to the essential roots of the problem in order to find what fundamental changes might be needed to effect the largest change for the benefit of the rest of America.

4. To build urgency with those who follow my logic and help drive that same change, quickly, before the consequences of our 'tragedy of the commons' overwhelm the entire system and crash our very civilization.

I honestly don't think humanity has much time the way things are currently going, and that we need to get to work NOW to upend the current system of economic feudalism, take our country back from the fatcat zillionaire donor class, and build a better, more sustainable society... or our grandchildren- what few of them survive the coming catastrophe- will be scratching in the polluted dirt, trying to eke out a meagre existence with no hope of ever leaving our planet or reaching for the stars and building a BETTER life for their children.

It's happened before again and again; history is positively littered with examples of failed civilizations. The difference this time is that when our global civilisation crashes, it won't merely be local, regional or national- it WILL destroy the entire planet and there won't be anywhere else for humans to rebuild.

Sorry if I sound alarmist, but the stakes simply could not be higher.

Letting the fatcats run the show has been a lovely experiment, but they've proven they're not up to the job. Time to try something different- for REAL this time.

Merely picking a candidate from one side or the other of a totally corrupted system is the wrong, shortsighted choice; we need a new paradigm.

How to inform, educate and energize the population at large about these issues enough to ACT is what I'm trying to discover here.

Relatively few of us have a better life than our parents; I don't want to see that trend continue, or worsen. And worsen it will if our civilization does not make the needed changes in the relatively short time we have.
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Would it not be fair to say that the current threat to our republic is not fascism but the trend to the rule by an oligarchy of the 500 hundred or so billionaire families? Here is a link to an article on a speech by US Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) at the Brookings Inst. given in Feb this year:
http://billmoyers.com/2015/02/10/bernie-sanders-keeping-us-becoming-oligarchy-struggle-must-win/

pithy comments from the speech:
“We need to take a hard look at our trade policies which have resulted in the outsourcing of millions of good paying jobs,” he continued. “Since 2001 we have lost more than 60,000 factories in this country, and more than 4.9 million decent-paying manufacturing jobs

“We need to end the race to the bottom and develop trade policies which demand that American corporations create jobs here, and not abroad,”

“In today’s highly competitive global economy, millions of Americans are unable to afford the higher education they need in order to get good-paying jobs. Some of our young people have given up the dream of going to college, while others are leaving school deeply in debt.”

Reform must also come to the financial sector, Sanders said.

“We must finally address the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior of Wall Street … Their speculation and illegal behavior plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. In my view, Wall Street is too large and powerful to be reformed. The huge financial institutions must be broken up.”

Finally, Sanders said, the US must “join the rest of the industrialized world and recognize that health care is a right of all, and not a privilege.”

OK, I know ... politician. The thing is, he has a long history on this. Republicans hate him, Democrats are embarrassed by him but allow him to caucus with them (they need his seat in the count for the senate) but he's at least saying what we are talking about here.
Bernie Sanders gets it in a way that terrified everyone else, because they know he speaks the truth- a truth they cannot support, lest they lose their backing and get tossed out of their seat of power.

500 billionaire families or 50,000 highly influential ones, the end result of oligarchy is the same.

Part of what holds it together is harsh control of the masses- so a dictator isn't necessary, only a militarized police in the service of the oligarchs in order to have fascism. I believe we've arrived at this state of affairs already.

Our 'democracy' has been reduced to a sham, with acceptable candidates picked for us by the ruling/donor class in a highly monetized primary system. Thus, we can choose only between their choice... and their other choice, both of whom are completely obligated to their donors and thus reliably willing to do their bidding.

Wall Street's role is to steal the money from the masses and launder it before giving it to the überclass to use in dividing, conquering and ruling those unfortunate enough not to be financially independent.

Our government is now more concerned with hiding its complicity in these machinations and supporting the monied interests than it is in protecting the rights of the average citizen, a totally unsustainable situation in the long run. It WILL lead to catastrophic collapse, it's just a matter of how long it will take.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I scare even myself when I read what I've written, but I can't find any holes in my analysis of the current situation- or its consequences for us all- even the rich who think that somehow they'll escape.

No, the only thing their wealth will buy them is posh accommodations and the privilege of being last to drown on a global Titanic of their own design.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
This legislation is what would convert America from a (badly run) democracy into an outright hereditary feudal system. The top tenth or two of the top one percent GET TO KEEP ALL THEIR MONEY AND NEVER PAY TAXES AGAIN.

Outrageous!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/16/estate-tax-house_n_7079744.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

House Votes To Repeal Tax On Richest 0.2 Percent Of Americans

WASHINGTON -- The House of Representatives voted Thursday to give a tax break worth $269 billion to the richest few thousand estates in the country, and add that cost to the federal debt.

Called the Death Tax Repeal Act of 2015, the bill would end the nearly 100-year-old federal estate tax. All but three Republicans voted in favor, while all but seven Democrats voted against. The legislation passed 239 to 179.

The measure benefits only the top .2 percent of the population because the other 99.8 percent of the country doesn't own enough wealth to ever pay the tax. Only estates worth more than $10.9 million for couples and $5.4 million for individuals fall under the tax.

Democrats were harshly critical of the bill, saying that it showed Republicans were being hypocritical with their recent expressions of concern for the widening income inequality gap in America.

"Today's vote to repeal the estate tax is just the Republican's last attempt to tilt the U.S. tax code in favor of their ultra wealthy campaign donors," said Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.).

"Today my Republican friends have discovered there’s $270 billion of revenue that somehow the federal government no longer needs," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) “They have decided to give an additional tax cut to people who need the help the least."

The Congressional Budget Office calculated the $269 billion figure. It covers the next 10 years without the tax, but the repeal would be indefinite.

Republicans contended that the tax amounts to taking away other people's property, and that it prevents families from passing businesses and farms down to their children.

“It is, at its heart, an immoral tax,” said Rep. Kevin Brady, (R-Texas).

Rep. Kristi Noem (R-S.D.) tried to counter Democratic arguments about growing income inequality by blaming President Barack Obama.

"One-in-five children are on food stamps because of the policies of this administration. Fifty percent of our college students can’t find work or are underemployed because of the policies of this administration," Noem said. "We talk about income inequality, and we are seeing it because of those previous policies. This tax is a very unfair tax."

Not only does the tax affect a small portion of Americans, but most people who are subject to it also pay an effective rate of just 17 percent, rather than the 40 percent technically required, since much of the property involved is taxed at lower rates than ordinary income.

The bill would also effectively repeal capital gains taxes for people with these large estates, allowing investments to be passed down without any taxes on their growth over the years. Heirs would only have to pay taxes on gains made after the date they get the inheritance.

The measure faces an uphill battle in the Senate, where Democrats have enough votes to block it. The White House has also threatened to veto the bill.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
I was thinking about the weed situation in Ireland yesterday.
As far as I can tell, most commercial operations are run by groups from abroad, China, Bulgaria etc. So the money made leaves the country.
By making it illegal to produce, a smoker's money is far more likely to leave the economy untaxed and find it's way to the home country if the organisation behind the grow. And that amount of money is huge. At e50 for 2.8g street prices..... Ouch.

That's gotta be as bad as outsourcing. But then Ireland let's companies like Google use them as a base of operations and then don't tax their profits. It's all a bloody mess.

Damn, you've made me think all numbery in my head. I'm going back to watching 'Pip Ahoy!' with the little one.
Just grow your own.

You live in a country where the police are dumb as sin.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Eliminating the estate tax is a tax cut for the wealthiest .15% of Americans, or just fifteen people in TEN THOUSAND. The other 99.85% gets to pay for it.

"This bill is even more egregious when considered against a backdrop of the dramatic rise in wealth and income inequality in the United States. The share of total wealth owned by the top 0.1 percent in the U.S. grew from 7 percent in 1978 to 22 percent in 2012."

In other words, one person in a thousand ALREADY owns OVER A FIFTH OF ALL THE WEALTH IN THE US. This is quite simply an existential threat to any kind of representative democracy in the United States if campaign finance laws aren't changed dramatically.

Full article follows the link;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-sander-/the-gops-handout-for-the_b_7102402.html

The GOP's Handout for the Wealthiest Americans

Last week House Republicans passed a bill to repeal the estate tax, giving a massive tax cut to the wealthiest 0.15 percent of Americans. In other words, 99.85 percent of Americans would see absolutely no benefit from this legislation -- only the huge spike in federal debt that would come along with it.

That's because repealing the estate tax isn't just a boon for the 5,500 wealthiest Americans; it is a bust to federal taxpayers, who would be on the hook for its quarter-of-a-trillion-dollar cost.

And it gets worse: Combined with other tax bills approved by House Republicans so far this year, our debt would grow by $584 billion to finance tax cuts for the wealthy.

That string of votes is even more galling considering how many pressing domestic priorities confront us -- from improving early childhood education to fixing our crumbling roads and bridges.

The estate-tax legislation approved by Republicans last week goes even further than previous efforts to repeal the estate tax, by allowing estates to avoid taxes on capital gains and other growth in assets entirely. It is estimated that, under this legislation, more than half of the assets passed down would have never been taxed.

This bill is even more egregious when considered against a backdrop of the dramatic rise in wealth and income inequality in the United States. The share of total wealth owned by the top 0.1 percent in the U.S. grew from 7 percent in 1978 to 22 percent in 2012.

In 2013 the median wealth of upper-income families ($639,400) was nearly seven times the median wealth of middle-income families ($96,500) -- the widest wealth gap since the Federal Reserve began collecting data 30 years ago.

It is no wonder that the vast majority of Americans -- Democrats and Republicans alike -- told a recent Pew survey that their greatest concern about the tax code is that some Americans don't pay their fair share. This legislation only fuels that perception.

Rep. Sandy Levin
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
SLOUCHING TOWARDS PLUTOCRACY

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/5/america-slouches-toward-plutocracy.html

Ever wonder why things don't seem to change, no matter who you vote for? Read on...

Text of article follows;

New evidence suggests that politicians favor the wealthy
May 26, 2015 2:00AM ET
by Sean McElwee @SeanMcElwee
Over the last few years, political scientists have warned about a worrying trend in American democracy: Voter preferencesdon’t have much sway over presidents’ policy choices. New research suggests their worries are well founded.

In a new book, political scientists James Druckman and Lawrence Jacobs examine data on internal polling from U.S. presidential archives and other existing research to determine how presidents use their knowledge of public opinion to craft policies. What they found is disturbing: Presidents tend to focus on the opinions of the wealthy and well-connected insiders, ignoring the views of most of the electorate. This turns on its head the idea that elected officials in the United States are responsive to public opinion.

Druckman and Jacobs focused on how President Ronald Reagan created the modern conservative coalition using internal polling. He sought to unite political independents, high-income groups, social conservatives and economic conservatives. While all these groups had influence over the Reagan administration, high earners had the most pull.

A look at how frequently the administration gathered public opinion data on specific groups is even more revealing. The authors noted, “The Reagan team assembled little data on the middle- and lower-income groups as it focused intently on gathering information on the affluent.” In total, Reagan received cross-tabulations for the rich about 60 percent of the time, compared with only 32 percent for low-income people. And 84 percent of the information gathered on economic issues included data on the affluent, compared with only 24 percent examining the middle class and 36 percent on the poor. On Social Security, for example, Reagan never received cross-tabulations on the opinions of the poor or middle class.

“We’ve got essentially the smoking gun,” Jacobs said. “We’re inside the White House and able to use Reagan’s own data and memos to cinch this case.”

Jacobs and Druckman’s research is especially important to growing concerns about inequality. In a 2006 study in the Oxford Review of Economic Policy journal, political scientists Thomas Cusack, Torben Iversen and Philipp Rehm found that those in the highest income quartile are 18 points more likely to “strongly disagree” with government redistribution. As illustrated in the chart below, using data from the American National Election Studies, I find a similar result: While those earning less than $25,000 are in favor of redistribution, those earning more than $150,000 are strongly opposed, with 62.6 percent saying government should not redistribute. The more influence high earners have on policy, the less likely inequality will be addressed through redistributive policies.

Government should take measures to reduce differences in income levels

Why do the rich have so much more influence? Donors to political campaigns, who tend to be rich, have stronger influence over policy. Granted, there is strong overlap in preferences between donors and nondonors in the same party. To test whether the donors had more influence, political scientists Michael Jay Barber, Brandice Canes-Wrone and Sharece Tower zeroed in on issues where co-partisan donors and nondonors disagreed. Theyfound (PDF) that donors exert more influence on presidential positions, while nondonors, even those of the same party, have no significant effect. Barber found a similar effect in the Senate.

The outsize influence of the wealthy donor class may also show up in Congress’ polarization. In a 2010 study Darmouth University researchers found “a lack of congruence between American voters and members of Congress.” One explanation could be that donors, who are more extreme than nondonors, are behind most policy decisions. While the researchers did not establish a clear causal relationship, they found that donors are better represented than nondonors. As Barber has shown, those with a net worth above $10 million make up 0.01 percent of Americans but 18 percent of political donors. By contrast, those worth less than $250,000 make up 69 percent of Americans and only 8 percent of donors.

18 percent of donors are worth more than $10 million

The outsize influence of the wealthy also shows up in the priorities politicians give to competing policy agendas. In a recent study, political scientists William Franko and Patrick Flavin examined how policymakers respond to political priorities rather than to constituent preferences. Unsurprisingly, the researchers found that the rich and poor have different priorities and that policymakers are more attentive to the priorities of the wealthy. As shown in the chart below, the priorities are even more divergent on class issues such as the minimum wage and poverty.

High- and low-income earners have different priorities


Evidence continues to accumulate that the U.S. is fast becoming a plutocracy. Americans must fight to take back their democracy. One way to do that is by bolstering voter turnout. Voters who want more progressive policies should look at a recent research by Jonas Pontusson and David Rueda. “Left parties will respond to an increase in inequality only when low-income voters are mobilized,” they wrote, on the basis of their analysis of data from 10 countries over nearly 40 years. Limiting the influence of money in the political process would also improve representation.

For its part, the middle class needs organizations that push policies that benefit them. Unions could serve such a role by mobilizing the working class and advocating for policies that benefit workers. “Labor unions promote greater political equality primarily by mobilizing their working class members to political action,” according to Flavin. “States with higher levels of union membership weigh citizens’ opinions more equally in the policymaking process.”

Without some such dramatic action, economic disparity will continue to solidify political inequality, which will further entrench racial and class gaps.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
@Padawanbater2 I wonder if knowing this will matter in upcoming elections. After all, we've been dumbing America down for forty years, I'm not sure the average American has the analytical chops to know how badly they're being screwed... nor the balls to stand up and do anything about it.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
@Padawanbater2 I wonder if knowing this will matter in upcoming elections. After all, we've been dumbing America down for forty years, I'm not sure the average American has the analytical chops to know how badly they're being screwed... nor the balls to stand up and do anything about it.
I think it's going to take a couple decades until we see any real change in that department, but as the trend is going so far, more Americans are turning away from cable news and seeking out legitimate sources, especially the younger people. All the other measurements seem to be looking up, too, less people calling themselves religious (non religious just took 8% in 8 years, that's unreal!), more people talking about things like climate change and income inequality, the momentum is definitely in our favor and for the first time in a long time I'm optimistic about the future of American politics
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
I think it's going to take a couple decades until we see any real change in that department, but as the trend is going so far, more Americans are turning away from cable news and seeking out legitimate sources, especially the younger people. All the other measurements seem to be looking up, too, less people calling themselves religious (non religious just took 8% in 8 years, that's unreal!), more people talking about things like climate change and income inequality, the momentum is definitely in our favor and for the first time in a long time I'm optimistic about the future of American politics
And don't forget...

 
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