NEED HELP with veganic soil "recipe"

I need some help with amounts of nutrients/amendments I should use in a veganic grow. I'm mixing these in with Roots Organic soil and supplementing with BioCanna's line of plant-derived organic nutrients BioVega 3-1-5, Bioflores 2-2-5, bio boost 0.02-.12-.08. I was hoping someone might be able to tell me a veganic recipe, meaning for example, if I were to mix 4 bags of soil with 1/2 cup of azomite, 1/2 cup dolomite, 2 lbs kelp etc, etc.

In example - Here's the "recipe" for Subcool's super soil:

2.5 lbs Blood Meal 12-0-0
2.5 lbs Steamed bone Meal 0-15-0
2.5 lbs Bat Guano 0-12-1
1.5 lbs Cal/Phos 0-5-0
1/2 Cup Potash 0-0-50
1/2 Cup Dolomite 49% Calcium Carbonate 36% Magnesium Carbonate
1/2 cup Epsom Salt Magnesium Sulphate
1/2 Cup Powdered Humic Acid
1 Cup Azomite 70+ trace elements
1 Cup Mycorrhizal

Blend (with 4 bags Roots Organic) add some water, 1.5 gallons, and let stand for 4 weeks in a 45 gallon garbage can before use if using.

Use at 50% container volume: 1/2 super Soil on the bottom 1/2 top soil.


Since I want to stay vegan, meaning no animal by-products, what can I use to replace blood meal, bone meal, worm castings, bat guano, etc?


Here's a list of the soil amendments I've purchased so far:

azomite 0-0-.2
greensand
living alaska humusoil (organic humus)
sulfate of potash 0-0-50
cottonseed meal 5-2-1
epsom salt
dolomite lime
dry kelp
earth juice hi-brix molasses
general organics CalMag supplement
Hygrozyme
green gro granular plus mycorrhizae
liquinox start vitamin B1
alfalfa meal 3-0-2 ???

If anyone could help me out with how much I should use per "x" amount of bags of soil (whatever "x" may be) I would be truly grateful! Thanks

IMO that vegan shit is a bit idiotic AFA worm castings go. Use a bit of common sense here and use the EWC. Holding on to ideals and having a shit grow is still a shit grow. LOL

alfalfa and soybean meal to replace the blood. Cottonseed meal is full of chems and super acidic. Use the soy instead.

rock phosphate for bone

Lose the sulfate of potash. Too strong and the kelp and greensand have you covered. Also, the cal/mag supplement, dolomite's got you covered. Hygrozyme, for ????

I'll do amounts in a bit.

Wet

Idiotic? Funny how people just make fun of things they don't know about or understand... sometimes it's a lot easier to just say a single insult than learning something new, so I don't blame you. I'm sure you haven't read anything about veganics... about how it's actually the most natural way to grow pot or any vegetable for that matter. and I'm sure you don't even care about smoking/eating organic food, so there's really no winning this argument. I personally got tired of consuming nasty, mass produced chems that help out big business, so I decided to go organic. Then doing a little research, I found that even organic has its flaws. Using animal by products is unnatural, and can potentially be dangerous. Having animal shit around you all the time can make you sick, and even bud/food produced with animal derived fertilizers can contain pathogens that make you sick. Think of a plant that is growing out in nature... the soil it is in, is largely composed of decomposed plant matter, a very small percentile is dead animals, or animal feces for that matter. How often does a tree growing out in the forest get a big pile of worm shit dumped all around it? I'm sorry that I decided I wanted to grow the most healthy sustainable pot as possible, forgive me.

SensiSoulJah maybe you need to do a little more reseach on worm casting, worms live in the earth (dirt) in the city and in the forest they live off off the bacteria that grow on the decomposing plant matter that is in the soil. I am setting up a worm box to get my own soil mix to gow in as foa as the bat guano goes they fly all over getting a meal droping shit as they fly around eating just as birds do. Yes I know that this is my first post but I have been doing research for over three months know about doing things orginic.

Yes, idiotic. Comparing EWC to blood meal makes as much sense as Al Gore yapping about global warming flying around in his jet.

Those trees in the forest? Think there might just be a few worms in that leaf litter and supplying EWC? Research it, you would be amazed at the density of the natural worm population.

If you disregard the EWC, I am running a 100% vegan mix and I know a little about what I'm talking about.

My worms are fed nothing but comfrey, coffee grounds and alfalfa/wheat bran meal bokashi. Let me know where any of that relates to animal by products.

BTW, no, I'm not a vegan. We have canine teeth for a reason and I make use of them.

Way too many like to toss the term *organic* around just to make them feel good about themselves with no real clue about the true nature of organics. I've been doing it since 1972, you? Not tossing the term around, but using natural practices in food production. I also use chemicals if the need arises. It's all in the balance of things.

Wet

I always loved the "but we have canine teeth" excuse... First, our "canine" tooth compared to that of any true carnivore is quite small, and well, not sharp. Second, the only reason you eat meat, is because of a misinformation campaign that took place back in the day - your children would grow inferior if they weren't feed protein-rich meat.... Fact of the matter is most Americans have too much protein in their diet, and could easily receive the right amount by eating beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, and other grains such as quinoa or even vegetables. You see, its simple science actually. Look at our digestive track. Carnivores have shorter digestive tracks, because the meat needs to pass through their body quickly, otherwise it would rot. The ONLY reason you, as a human, eat meat, is because you COOK it. If we didn't cook our meat, it would rot in our belly. In fact, once you go vegetarian/vegan you begin to realize your shit starts to stink less... LITERALLY. But I guess since you're some kind of genius, you'll probably say something like, well I love meat, and I'm an american, so I'll do what I please you hippie idiot. Personally, I didn't "throw the organic term around" to look cool... I actually got tired of being overweight and feeling shitty from eating CHEMICALS, so I decided to eat food that isn't shit. Forgive me for trying to better my health. And yes, there are worms in nature, congrats, you're right for once. However, I find it hard to believe that at any given point in time, a large pile of worm shit is brewed in the clouds, into the rain water, and dumped on any given naturally growing plant... That's the whole point when we grow indoors... to try and recreate nature as much as possible right? I don't get how you don't see that something coming from a worm, which is an animal, is an animal byproduct... Didn't think that was rocket science, but I guess you can't put it past some of these folks these days. I digress though. You're so old an wise... if only I was born back then, and that stupid little number people called "age" was bigger... then maybe I wouldn't have to be on here asking silly questions, I could be pretending to answer them instead! If you honestly think you're smarter, or better than someone because you've been alive longer, than you're obviously a little fucking kid at heart, still trying to play the "I'm better than you" game... Thanks for the chuckle anyway you old, washed up turd.

Green Dragon - Yes I do realize that worm and bat shit do occur naturally, however, my point was, using these things can make you sick... and ultimately can be replaced by vegan supplements, so why take the risk? Also, yes naturally there is bat shit and worm shit, but it NEVER accumulates into 50lb piles, and certainly there are many plants and trees (i.e. every single one on the planet) that survive just fine with what nature provides, and as far as I can recollect, nature doesn't dump piles of shit onto every single plant in the forest to ensure its survival

Totally agree with the above comments regarding removing chemicals from our diet. Agree that we don't need as much protein as we tend to eat.

Totally disagree with the Vegan / PETA dialog. Raw meat most certainly does not rot in your stomach. We have canines because we're omnivorous. This has nothing to do with plants and is not a good analogy

Your perspective regarding worms and EWC will likely leave your soil wanting and handicapped.

Cooter@666 said:

Do wild animals die naturally in the forest? What do you think happens to those animals after they die? I’m pretty sure they decompose and become part of the natural soil.

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Yes, as I said earlier, there would be animals decomposing in the forest. It's a matter of proportions though. There aren't piles of dead animals throughout the forest floor, see what I'm saying? The vast majority is decomposed plant matter (i.e. during the fall, the ground is COVERED in leaves... and essentially most plants die and decompose, in the process leaving their seed behind in order for the survival of the species next spring) Yes, sure an animal will die every thousand years in a particular spot. How many dead animals are strewn about your lawn my friend? Yes, again, you can say there's plenty of dead insects, but again its a matter of proportions. if you wanted it to be as "all natural" as possible, I suppose you would have to make a small percentile (under 1%) decomposed animals and feces. Is this logic flawed? If so please elaborate.

Sensi

Rrog said:

Totally agree with the above comments regarding removing chemicals from our diet. Agree that we don't need as much protein as we tend to eat.

Totally disagree with the Vegan / PETA dialog. Raw meat most certainly does not rot in your stomach. We have canines because we're omnivorous. This has nothing to do with plants and is not a good analogy

Your perspective regarding worms and EWC will likely leave your soil wanting and handicapped.

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I mean I don't really know what to say to you bud. I'm not vegan, or PETA for that matter. Meat in fact does rot in your stomach whether its cooked or not... You only know the word omnivore because you were told that's what you were in 3rd grade science class... Not sure what you're talking about bad analogies... and your last comment maybe right, but I'll see what happens I suppose. If I were to use any animal byproduct it would be worm casting. HOWEVER, as far as I understand veganics, you can create a healthy microbial environment in your soil without worm castings. And in my honest opinion, I don't see it often, but I've gotten Sour Diesel and Bubble Wreck (bubblegum x trainwreck) that was grown veganically from the dispensary, and they were both two of thee dankest strains I've ever smoked... and I'm not trying to brag or anything, but I'm a connoisseur of dank buds... I smoke about an oz a week and everytime I go to the dispensary I usually buy 2 ounces at a time, usually 4 different half ounces, sometimes 8 different quarters if they have enough good strains, and I've been to atleast 15 dispensaries in the NorCal area and ALWAYS my first question is "what's the best of the best that you guys have"... I wouldn't just bullshit this just for the sake of argument, I have nothing to lie about. The two times I've had veganic grown bud they were both PHENOMENAL in taste, smell, and especially high... Definitely both were in the top 10 best buds I've ever smoked, but again this is just my honest opinion

Sensi

These are some tips on vegan gardening from the vegan society....

Hygrozyme doesn't need to be there. You have the real deal with the beneficials.

What are the ratios of your kelp? There are too many different extracts on the market.

There are some materials that we would not recommend:

• Peat - peat bogs are still being destroyed in order to provide peat for composts, mulching etc.
• Calcified seaweed - this material is obtained from the temperate ocean equivalent of coral reefs, and is being harvested in an unsustainable way; it is being phased out of organic practice.
• Spent mushroom compost - just in case you were not aware of it, this material is usually made from animal manures, especially horse manure. It is also heavily polluted with all the chemicals they use in growing mushrooms.
• Coir - this is being used in increasing quantities as a peat replacement. Although this is an excellent soil conditioner it is imported from countries that need the fertility of their own soils improving. As an alternative to peat in composts, the best option may be to use coir, however
• Slaked lime - is a by-product of the chemical industry. Dolomite and ground limestone have to be quarried, so should be used in moderation.

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http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/home-and-garden/vegan-organic-gardening.aspx

SensiSoulJah said:

...Meat in fact does rot in your stomach whether its cooked or not... You only know the word omnivore because you were told that's what you were in 3rd grade science class...

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You really need to understand the concepts you're pushing before you start, amigo.

My comments are hijacking your thread, so I won't comment further. Apologies.

Rrog said:

You really need to understand the concepts you're pushing before you start, amigo.

My comments are hijacking your thread, so I won't comment further. Apologies.

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I'm with ya.

Not worth trying to reason with 'internet experts', or the newly converted. You know, "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!"

Wet

your so worried about keeping a "vegan" organic garden for your health, but you "smoke an oz a week"


get your thumb out of your ass, people are giving you advice, and EWC are considered veganic last i checked? pretty sure kyle kushman has stated that in a vid somewhere before, but being a internet expert, im sure you already saw that and knew that he was wrong..

Wetdog said:

I'm with ya.

Not worth trying to reason with 'internet experts', or the newly converted. You know, "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!"

Wet

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Sad but true...

Rrog said:

You really need to understand the concepts you're pushing before you start, amigo.

My comments are hijacking your thread, so I won't comment further. Apologies.

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LMAO. Real mature... get that last jab in then say "I won't comment any further". Thanks bud... if you're trying to better yourself for real, don't come in someones post, talk some shit, than say you're the bigger man cuz you wanted to stop talking shit... More or less you're too lazy, or perhaps uneducated, to come up with an argument.

Do you guys not realize you are doing the same exact thing by saying that your side is no matter what, right? I never once claimed I was an expert, in fact I'm quite the opposite that's why I'm here reaching out for help...

Instead of using logic to prove your side of the argument, you guys are all so quick to just say well here's another deranged asshole... he doesn't believe what the majority of the others think, so he must be wrong

"Not worth trying to reason with 'internet experts', or the newly converted. You know, "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!" - Wetdog How do you not realize that you are being just as closed-minded as I am? You guys are something else. Doubt you gave my "facts" any thought or research... it was much easier to just bash me then come with a reasonable logical argument... right? Because that's what the lot of ya did.

Do me a favor once, real quick. Press your thumb as hard as you can against your canine tooth. Did it tear your flesh? Are you bleeding? Didn't think so... I was simply stating the fact, and this is a fact, that our teeth are not the teeth of carnivores... therefore why do we eat meat?

thought the purpose of this site was to HELP each other out... not call each others ideals idiotic and bash ideas that aren't the "norm". I simply wanted to try something... a grow without animal byproduct. Why wouldn't you guys encourage me, and see if it worked? Perhaps I won't grow as good of pot, and my plants will be deficient in some way or another. I will at that point in time, realize that what I'm doing isn't possible, and would start using animals products. You guys really are something else...

THANKS CLOSETSAFE It's great to see that there are some people out here really down for the cause... of helping out those with less knowledge.

I had originally posted, then deleted the fact that my wife and I both have science degrees. My wife has a Masters from Virginia Medical College in Food Science and Nutrition. I have a BS in both Bio and Chem. I worked for a few years in a recombinant DNA research lab.

I hope you reconsider the worm castings man. Peace.

well this thread went to shit, come on over to my thread and we will sort this out. the advice nullis gave you is pretty spot on with regards to keeping earthworm castings and using alfalfa/kelp meals instead of cottonseed. https://www.rollitup.org/organics/364864-vegan-organics-aka-veganics-matt-124.html

Granted an earthworm is, scientifically, classified as an animal. (University of Florida: Earthworm Biology) The use of earthworm castings is one of the few gray areas within the ideals veganism.

SensiSoulJah: If you are really set on not using earthworm castings and plan on growing indoors look into "Green manures" and/or "Living mulches"\

Yes, I am vegan.

I agree with Rayne that is solid advise! you are on the right track and if you've chosen this method of growing then you must have a passion for it. Which i love and is what has propelled me to continue my search for the best genetics, grow systems, mediums, etc...!!! If it works for you then rock it! I find keepin things simple is the best way to go. Yet im always trying to improve in every aspect. so props for looking for something that worked for you. Peace, SENSI