Need advice on how to flush these huge girls, dont have enough water

I have two huge girls and they are in 25L (5gal) buckets.

They have about 20L of soil in them.

I usually fill up a 10L bottle of water with tap water then lit it sit for 5 days usually then give them 5L of water each.

I am about 30ish days from harvesting and wondering about my final flush with 2 weeks left... if I have 20L of soil, does that mean I need to run 60L of water through them?

if the answer is yes then I need 120L of water but I only got one 10L container for water....

is it OK to just put them in the bathtub and run tapwater right out of the tap on them for the flush or will they not like the water because it hasn't sat out to get rid of the chlorine etc?

also should I give them any more waterings after the final flush? and if so can I put molasses in that water? been using molasses and nutes and doing the occasional water only feeding thus far.

what are your thoughts on the 3 days of darkness before harvest?

Use some clearing solution and you wont have to use sooo much water.. you want alot.. like 80 percent runoff but use Clearex clearing solution and add it to a few gallons of water , let me get you some specifics

Clearex
Soil containers and Gardens
use 1/4 ounce to 1/2 ounce of clearex per gallon of water. Pour one to two quarts over plants every seven to twenty one days. for container gardens achieve a minimum 80 to 90% runoff. Water and fertilize as usual

pre harvest flush
my clearex bottle says discontinue fertilizer regime 7 - 10 days before harvest. use 1 to 2 tablespoons of clearex per gallon of water and water as needed..

if you cant get a clearing solution then you need to follow this rule of thumb... and this is gonna suck for you unfortunately.. Leach the soil with two gallonbs of water for each gallonb of soil every morning for a week before harvest.. 7 to 14 days before.. 4 to 6 days if you have a clearing solution

Ap0c0leS said:

if you cant get a clearing solution then you need to follow this rule of thumb... and this is gonna suck for you unfortunately.. Leach the soil with two gallonbs of water for each gallonb of soil every morning for a week before harvest.. 7 to 14 days before.. 4 to 6 days if you have a clearing solution

Click to expand...

i dont have a cleaning solution.

i only have a 2 gallon water container... are you saying give them 2 gal every morning? I have 4L of soil in each... or are you saying give them 8L of water everyday that makes no sense.

i am so lost right now...

what will happen if I use tap water that hasn't sit yet?

I know I am supposed to run 2-3x the voulume through them...

Tap water should be fine for flushing.

save your time and trouble and jus use water the last 2 weeks. if you dont have a salt build-up in your soil then theres no need to leach.

There are conflicting beliefs, including evidence to support them, in regards to flushing and if it is good or bad or needed or not, sometimes depending on how you grow.

Do you need to flush or not?
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One controversial aspect of Marijuana growth is "flushing". In regards to this discussion I think we need to clearly define what exactly it is we're talking about. Flushing for our purposes typically implies using an unusually large amount of pH balanced water to essentially leach salt and/or nutrients from our medium, and hence our plant. Simply feeding your plant pH balanced water is not quite the same thing - allowing for excessive run-off, prior to harvest, is the real purpose. Many of us flush. Why? Obviously, because we like the results - cleaner smoke, a more natural flavor and healthier product are just some of our reasons - or excuses. What we need to do to is to develop a better understanding of what exactly the "flush" is accomplishing and really how healthy for the plant and our selves it may be. In researching this, one conclusion after the next led me to believe in it's irrelevance and then again, it's importance.

First I looked into how many regular crops are "flushed" prior to harvest. The practice is really not adhered to. I primarily looked into Tobacco crops as that plant also, will be smoked. Very little information showed up, in fact most commercial farmers will apply only the nutrients and water needed, never any extra - it's a matter of economics. Excessive run-off in those conditions means food is washing away. It should have been more obvious to me initially, that tobacco companies are absolutely not worried abut removing excessive any thing from they're product. I did find and interesting comparative study however, and will link the post at the end. In any case, It's important to understand what things we are trying to remove from the our plant. Most of us agree that primarily slowing photosynthesis, and hence eliminating chlorophyll will make our smoke taste smoother. This is where things get confusing however, or I should say they become clear.

Lets consider some general science to the plant we are growing, and then discuss our influences over it. Marijuana is an Annual, this means in it's natural environment it will grow to maturity and if pollinated, will drop seed in a single season. Next season, it's seed will guarantee reproduction. Outdoors this process occurs year after year given environmental conditions are typical. We all see this occur under the sun, season after season and typically never really consider why and how this can have influence over our indoor Marijuana crop. All Annuals experience an internal process triggered from what most believe to be primarily light cycle, called Senescence. An Annual plant will begin to concentrate it's efforts into producing fruits and/or seed to insure future generations. This process is typically hormonally induced and begins when the light cycle begins to diminish. Eventually, under conditions related to senescence, the plant will slow photosynthesis on it's own and naturally draw nutrients from fan leaves to relocate energy into reproduction. So consider that out doors, under natural light deprivation, Annual plants will essentially "flush" themselves, basically to death, all to develop healthy seed. It is a natural and predictable process. I had some very interesting conversation regarding this subject and was given a basic example of how plants choose they're time to go, regardless if we flush or not - under some conditions. If we had some heavily amended soil outdoors in our garden. We could easily grow multiple types of veggies and plants including Marijuana in the same garden, in the same soil. Even with the different nutrient demands of the various plants they all thrive given the right food is in the soil. This is a perfect example of a plant choosing which and what nutrients it absorbs and when it absorbs them. This happens because the plant is reacting with the soil microbiology. Microbes like bacteria and fungi build relationships with plants and essentially trade nutrients for carb rich substances and various fluids assisting in microbial growth. It's known as a symbiotic relationship, one relies on the other. So if an Annual plant, interacting with soil life, chooses it's own uptake gathered conditions are correct, how much influence can we really have? The answer is easy, we have no influence in some conditions. Using some grow methods however, we have all the influence. Remember, adhering to strictly a plants natural and proven method of finishing it's life cycle is important to understand, however, Marijuana itself has no intention of being smoked. Adding this unnatural process of flushing may result in a product more friendly to our purpose. We don't wait for apples to fall on the ground, we pick and eat them before the plant has given them to us. Many agricultural crops, grown under the strictest organic conditions are altered in the natural process to better provide us with product. Product that at times is tastier, more nutritious and generally healthier with human intervention.

Microbial life binds to organic matter. Under organic conditions - real bio-dynamic organics where all organic matter is added to soil prior to growing a plant, and microbial life is our priority. Flushing seems irrelevant. I said it. Irrelevant. We are relying on microbial interaction and our feedings consist of typically water only in the first place. In fact, rich, organic soil will filter your water - run-off will literally be cleaner than the water added. I've flushed enormous amounts of water through organic soil, and indeed, I washed away soil life and plants showed stress. But stress was exactly it. I was now eliminated the plants known form of absorption. Yes this resulted in yellowing leaves, and the results indeed mimic senescence but what was I really accomplishing. I was forcing the plant to look to itself for food before her time, and really starving her to maturity rather than allowing her to naturally mature under normal conditions. The eventual results hypothetically should be the same. I starve the plant through excessive watering, or the plant starves itself through Senescence. With that theory in mind under strict organic conditions, in my opinion it is always wise to let the plant follow it's natural cycle when ever possible. Indoors, in controlled environments, when we switch our light cycle to 12/12 senescence essentially is triggered to begin. We do have some control however, seeding for example, is usually avoided. A plant will prolong growth when pollination does not occur. We can add growth hormones, things like sea weed and algae based additives which contain numerous growth hormones such as cytotoxins and gibberellins. Both contribute to extended growth and delayed Senescence. Many tricks of the trade can lead to larger yields and at times and extended harvest times. It is a soil food web that feeds our plants, a symbiotic environment that naturally harmonizes. Destroying the harmony, disrupting the balance can indeed induce stress and typical deficiencies, but regardless of what we add or take away, under organic conditions, the plant and it's relationship with microbial life dictate when maturity has arrived and when she is ready for harvest - not a flood of water. It should be noted that there can be exceptions to the above, such as smaller pots for example.

Do you need to flush or not?
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How about soiless mediums under organic conditions, ie. Bio-organic. The majority of my grows are Bio-organic. I mix very little nutrients into my medium, and rely on weekly soluble, organic teas to feed my substrate. Feeding the substrate is important here as well as the above mentioned methods. Mediums like peat, pear-lite, coco, rock-wool and many variations of this style of grow still can maintain flourishing numbers of microbial life. The symbiotic relationship applies under these circumstances as well. However, remember microbial life actively binds itself to organic matter - plant roots included. How applicable would a flush be here? There is not nearly the same density of organic matter as most Bio-dynamic grows. The mediums included here are indeed more sensitive to flushing. My plants will react more quickly, yellowing faster and maturing quickly. Microbial life here has less matter to bind to, and although healthy root systems are intact we are more able to wash some of this life away. Plants can absorb nutrients in a multitude of ways. For this discussions purpose, lets consider the symbiotic relationship with microbial life as one and the plants ability to absorb nutrients directly (as in chelated nutrients) as another. Both are effective ways a plant will feed. One way however, allows us more influence in regards to flushing. Plants will rely more upon microbial life in soil and more on it's own means of absorption in hydro type environments. We still can and do use microbial interaction in hydroponic conditions but typically applied nutrients are plant ready. Bio-organics is a blend of hydroponics and soil in many ways, including nutrient absorption. Plants actively use both methods of absorption. Flushing does have it's place here, but timing is everything. Remember Senescence will occur displaying signals of maturity and plants will begin to essentially eat themselves. Under Bio-Organic methods, I find flushing when the beginning of visual Senescence symptoms occur will greatly assist in producing cleaner smoke. Why? It's easier to dilute the available nutrients under these conditions. The substrate becomes less nutrient rich as we flush, microbial life is easier to literally wash away and the plants food source becomes more limited. Although this again can be viewed as stressing the plant, realize Senescence is eliminated nutrients at this point also, we simply are helping it along and indeed have the ability to, as our mediums provide less included organic matter to which microbial life would bind. I've directly compared this scenario - using peat based Pro-mix and results for me are the same time and again. Plants use they're supplies up more slowly relying on Senescence alone. They simply take longer to reach the stage and level of maturity I'm looking for. I actually find weight is temporarily increased with a flush. The buds swell, although after drying, production was almost identical as the unflushed plant. I see results flushing under Bio-organic conditions and make it a regular practice. Smoke is smoother and the buds take on a more mature, swollen look in my case. For the record, the unflushed plant received little nutrients the last feedings, which turned out to be only one extra. Non the less, I recommend flushing under these conditions - at the right time - to help the plant draw nutrients from herself and eliminate chlorophyll more efficiently.

In my experiences with Airoponics, DWC, Hydroton ebb and flo tables, and the more extreme forms of hydroponics that utilize loose, unstructured mediums flushing also has benefits. Although microbes can indeed live on root sytems and in reservoirs, the frequent flow of water makes it difficult for microbial life to bind to these mediums. Typically, under these conditions there is also a general lack of bio-mass. Lacking in bio-mass contributes to a lack of symbiotic life. Algae and bacteria can form "mats" and clog flow but that does not imply a thriving rhizosphere, visual populations of build up is not the same as a balanced, prolific environment. This general style of grow responds well to a flush. When growing organically or chemically nutrients can be washed away, and again timing is everything.

In almost any scenario, growing Marijuana with chemical and synthetic based nutrients flushing has it's benefit. Most of us agree on this. Nutrient salts will build in many mediums and in plant tissue, specifically when plants are confined to a small area and leached frequently with salt based nutrients. I don't use chemical fertilizers and these days even avoid chemical blends, however, I've tested them many times and with solid results. In every instance when I would feed instead of flush in late flowering plants would remain deep green and retain excessive amounts of chlorophyll creating harsh smoke, as I usually put it - head ache weed. Any one who has bought a bag of Beasters (Canadian commercial herb), knows how quality slides with chemical fertilization programs that have no regard for a flush. Many chem based fertilizer programs can increase flowering time and weight with minor application changes. Nutrients do have a role in senescence and we can prolong the symptoms with proper or improper feedings, depending on our goals. The results of flushing are most apparent when using this method of nutrient application. Chemicals and synthetic salts will and do leach from the substrate rapidly. This is made clear by our ability to quickly improve or flush pH issues out mid cycle if necessary. Chems simply respond clearly to a flush. Even blended programs promote flushing. I believe as one example, Advanced Nutrients sells flushing additives that assist in salt removal. There is simply no denying that if you grow under theses conditions flushing is well practiced for good reason.

Which method will lead to healthier smoke has yet to be scientifically tested. Perhaps the effective flush we can give chemically fed plants draws more harm-full substances from the plant than not flushing an organic one. We have to consider the smoke. What happens to these nutrients when we burn them and what levels of items in the plant lead to harsh smoke or even worse, unhealthy Marijuana. We all generally agree eliminated chlorophyll is a goal in flushing, (even the plant will try to do this on her own) but what other items do we want out of our plant at harvest time. I've heard people say weed will crackle when burned with excessive nutrients, specifically Nitrogen. I'm more prone to believing the herb may just be a little more moist than anticipated. Like wet wood. Others claim they can taste the chemicals - which I too have been guilty of. I've read that excessive amounts of Phosphorus can be harm-full when smoked, and even more so magnesium. Marijuana smoke also has high ammonium and alcohol numbers. It should be noted that THC burns at lower temperatures than the actual plant matter. If you want to truly eliminate many things from your smoke, Vaporizing your herb will probably be more efficient than actually flushing the plant prior to harvest. The point is to ultimately create healthier and smoother smoke. The color and carbon residues of smoke more dictate what may be left in our herb, and without scientific analysis we all are simply speculating here. The only real proof we have is results and our preferences. There is science to the flush that cannot be ignored, but the majority of us practice the technique. Its time however, that we all take a clear look at what it is doing for our smoke and when its applicable. Flushing is system and style dependant. I believe too many growers rule out flushing or adhere religiously to it with-out stopping to think about it's effectiveness and what we are trying to accomplish.

Sources : Urban Gardener - The Indoor Gardener - Maximum Yield - Susheng Gan : Senescence Processes in Plants - Charles Manning Child : Senescence and Rejuvenesence

Pre-harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavor, by breaking down chlorophyll's and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and improper drying/curing.