n00b with darkening spots on leaves

This is in reference to my first plant that's approximately 2 weeks into growth. It was originally in soil, I just transplanted it into a makeshift hydro system I put together yesterday. The medium I just gathered real quick today after I almost gave up and threw them outdoors in the wild. It is just normal rocks I found near the road. I "cooked" them in boiling water for 10 minutes and washed off everything. It's not in rockwool or any paper or filter or anything of that nature. I have an air pump pushing air through a hose to the bottom of the coffee container that bubbles up to the "net pot" I made out of a washed sour creme container that I drilled 1/8" holes all around (apprx 25 total scatter from bottom to 4/5 up) I have little faith in this one surviving though.

It's growing indoors under 3 CLFs all 26 watt and one "plant light" that's 75 watts, I think maybe a Philips (it's shit i've noticed). Every now and then I put them (3 plants total, 2 I believe I'm abandoning that are currently outdoors) outdoors during the hottest/brightest 2 hours of the day. I was spraying them with a water bottle 4 or 5 times a day with about 5-10 sprays and I added water directly to the soil in small moderation (1 or 2 oz every three days) as I learned that the nutrients in MG can burn the plant.

Like I said, it was in Miracle Grow Moisture Control soil for about 15 days and they were germinated in a paper towel for a few days. And I would assume it's in a vegetative stage of growth if it's not dying.

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(additional photos and information added after original post. new photos after first two with yellow tone)

Here are some pictures I took today. This is maybe half a day after transferring the one from soil to hydro. I turned the CFLs off to take these pictures because I thought the camera flash would give a more accurate representation of the coloring. The two in the soil were left outside overnight. I think the temps were in the low 50s. Again, they are basically being abandoned, I just wanted to show the differences between the healthiest and the others. Out of curiousity though, I would like to know what causes the leaves to get holes in them and turn dead brown around. I have been told that it can be caused by the cold and also have heard that a fungus can do this and is treatable with a garlic water. I have so much to learn, but I am not rushing it. Thank you for your time and efforts.

What can be seen are tiny dark, reddish or rusty spots on the top of the leaves, the bottom two little round leaves are almost entirely yellow while the upper/older leaves are as well (the newer little ones seem all green thus far). I also have a small fan circulating air through the small space. It is not blowing directly on the plant but I can see that it is shaking from the airflow.

I forgot to mention that the temperature generally ranges from 71 degrees to 77 depending on where the fan is pointing.

They look nutrient burn to me.

Nice effort on the ghetto hydro. But you need to research things like ph, nutrients, feeding schedules ect. Takes more than just waer and rocks.

Thanks for the input, guys. Is it even possible at this stage of it's development, or poor development I should say, to transfer into a hydro system (a ghetto one at that)? I have an idea of what should be ideal for hydro systems once they have sprouted with roots. The clay pellets would have been great for inside the net pots but this was just a last minute resort to save.

When you mention feeding schedules I get confused. I don't know what the food would consist of and when it's a good time to start. And would you recommend any difference in the lighting?

Today, they are looking slightly better. I brought the two I had outdoors back in and cut all the dead leaves off near the stem. I was watching the temperature more closely also and saw that it reached up to 81 degrees as what appeared to be the hottest. The plant in the "hydro" system still appears unchanged thus far. I thought i had noticed that the dark spots on the tops of the fanned leaves are starting to fade or become lighter, but this could just be wishful thinking.

they look beautiful...like a finished plant a few days after the final flush. they're autumning off as a seedlings lol...nute lockout or overload, 1 of the 2. (which could be caused by a few things, PH being 1 of them)

It's hard to gather what you're saying for me. If I'm correct in understanding you're saying that this is an acceptable state for the plant(s) to be in? I was originally fearing that it was nute overload from the MG soil because I would water the soil maybe twice a day. That being the case, I changed the soil of one to just something I found in a pot outdoors from a flower perhaps earlier, it looked mainly like just plain dirt. And the other obviously is just in water and rocks, which hasn't proved to be either hurtful or helpful. The last of the three, to attempt to change the pH of the water, I flushed with approximately 25 ounces of ozarka with a half teaspoon of baking soda mixed in (which I let mix for maybe 2 hours). Aside from the baking soda / water mix, there was nothing else done to it.

radioOFF said:

It's hard to gather what you're saying for me. If I'm correct in understanding you're saying that this is an acceptable state for the plant(s) to be in? I was originally fearing that it was nute overload from the MG soil because I would water the soil maybe twice a day. That being the case, I changed the soil of one to just something I found in a pot outdoors from a flower perhaps earlier, it looked mainly like just plain dirt. And the other obviously is just in water and rocks, which hasn't proved to be either hurtful or helpful. The last of the three, to attempt to change the pH of the water, I flushed with approximately 25 ounces of ozarka with a half teaspoon of baking soda mixed in (which I let mix for maybe 2 hours). Aside from the baking soda / water mix, there was nothing else done to it.

Click to expand...

"like a finished plant a few days after the FINAL FLUSH" now that you've said how much you're watering them I understand. YOU'RE FLUSHING THE NUTES OUT!!! lol

the 1 in the rocks looks completely drained of all nutrients. the ones in the soil look like they were burned...THEN completely drained of all nutrients, hence the yellow Calytdons (round first seedling leaves)

My ultimate recommendation is to:

1. flush 1 more time with some clearex or peroxide.
2. THEN...let them drain out, tons of runoff (let them sit for a minute or 2).
3. THEN water with nutes right over and MARK THAT DAY DOWN. DO NOT...DO NOT add nutes to ur soil again until 1-2 weeks from that day depending on what improvement you see.

4th RECOMMENDATION.: Let your soil dry out BEFORE YOU WATER AGAIN, and water with PLAIN WATER, just enough for a tiny tiny bit of runoff, any extra and you're eroding nutrients out of your soil.


(I dont know what to tell you about the one in the rocks lmfao that 1 tripped me out)


the hydrogen peroxide will give your roots some extra oxygen...they'll really need it to bring your plants back, bad start but recoverable!

Ha yeah like I said, I made due with what I had at the very last moment. I'm going to look into flushing and how to do it correctly. The idea of putting peroxide in it doesn't sound like a A+ idea honestly, but I will look into that further as well. I appreciate the advice and guidance either way though

What I've ultimately decided to do with the plants is put them all in soil. The one I had in the dro system was not developing well in the roots for whatever reason. I can only assume that it wasn't getting enough oxygen, but I couldn't be sure. So they are all in soil now. Before today I only had *one* in the MG moisture control soil, and it was surprisingly doing the best even after being left in the bitter cold one night and nutrient burnt several times. The last plant was in another soil that I just found in a pot left in the sun from how knows long ago. I eventually found that it had little to no nutrients. I put parakeet poop in that and to no avail... nothing. So AS you can see now. I have no idea what I'm doing.

Like I said they are all in MG moisture control soil now. And I think I will be watering them approximately every week and only then. After all, the one that was doing the greatest was practically being ignored since it was brought back in. So what I think I'm learning is that they just want to be left alone. Please any advice would be appreciated. I will provide pictures later because I'm not near my camera at the moment.

NoobGrower416 said:

"like a finished plant a few days after the FINAL FLUSH" now that you've said how much you're watering them I understand. YOU'RE FLUSHING THE NUTES OUT!!! lol

Click to expand...

Over-watering, excessive amounts of moisture over a period of time in soil, will inhibit a plant's uptake of nitrogen, especially in seedlings. Many people confuse it with burn/too much nitrogen, but its a deficiency due to inhibited uptake of nitrogen.

It sound's like those plants are in bad shape from all the back and forth you have been doin' and not listening to advice given. For example going against the Hydrogen Peroxide advice. hydrogen Peroxide is H202. That is 1 Water molecule with an extra oxygen molecule attached. You then point out that you think they don't have enough oxygen. then you plant them in MG moisture control? wtf dude? Don't water that for a month or so.

Well it's not that I'm going against any advice that's been given to me. I simply don't have a quality of hydrogen peroxide that I would even consider putting it in. I said that I thought it didn't sound like a great idea, but after further inspection it would be a fine option *if* I had a good quality h2o2--alas, I don't, and I don't have a lot of money to do buy 35% h2o2.

And then you act as if MG moisture control is the worst thing I could have possibly done. I don't know if it's that that is upsetting or is it that I've n00bed out and overwatered the moisture control soil in the beginning. After all, I bought the soil for in case I *over*watered--which I find out later, doesn't really apply in this case because of the time released nutes in the crystal balls you find in the MG soil. I've still found that soil to be an ok option compared to the spent soil I found outside.

I never claimed to be an expert and it's not like I haven't learned anything from what I've been told by other growers in this thread & I've also been rather receptive, I consider, to much of the advice I've been given.

I've been told that one looks nutrient burnt, which I looked into and decided was probably right, so I cut back on the decidedly excessive watering which I learned causes a nutrient surplus from the MG soil. I was told that what I had as a hydro system could have been maybe worthy had I put it in a better medium with nutrients and h2o2, I don't have that so I let it stay in the rock medium for another couple days (to limit any stress from multiple transplants), its state didn't improve, so I was put to transplanted it again after I couldn't balance what I agreed was a combination of a nutrient lockout and pH problem. So that's another piece or couple pieces of advice I took to heart. All this and from the beginning I was being told to stop watering so much, which I did. So I took that advice. I'm not seeing how your coming to this conclusion that I'm just sloughing off all advice I'm being given. I'll admit that one of the plants has been put through a lot of stress from being transplanted from soil to hydro and back to soil. This first transplant only happened because it wasn't looking like it was going to last. However, it's still alive, whether it's still able to end up healthy or at least repairable is still debatable but it doesn't look like a total loss to me yet.

And as a side note, I don't even see why I would be posting on this forum and asking for advice unless I was willing to be receptive to thoughts and ideas, which I thought I was doing up until the point which you informed me I was actually doing the exact opposite. Now that my eyes are open though I see that I need to actually open my ears too and give attention to each and every bit of advice I'm given from everybody and not give any second thought on any matter and just follow it all to a T immediately... LOL I'm not being serious, man. It just sounded a little like you may have misunderstood my strategy here.

So this is an update. I had to spend a couple days away from them so I was just relying on the elements (albeit a man created "natural" environment) in the soil to take care of them and hopefully put some new color and life into the failed hydro project. So that didn't happen, but the other two are looking much better than they were. To think that I was going to scrap these and just work with the hydro plant. That would have been a FAIL but it's not over yet. I'm sure there will be plenty more opportunities for me to fuck it up. Here are some updated photos. I'd like to know what you think and if I could do anything better with the lighting set up. I don't have a lot of money so I don't want to be dishing out hundreds of dollars for a legit set up, but I could probably dole out up to a hundred dollars. Please hit me up and tell me what I'm doing wrong or what I could be doing to improve the current situation (two plants in soil under 3 26 watt CFL and one 75 watt POS on a 18-6 cycle). I am no longer adding water several times a day. I am just watering once every so often, seemingly about 6-10 oz of water will last a few days.

First those babies are streching like hell. u got those cfl's how far away?and gow old are the bulbs? Also another thing I notice they are gonna out grow those pots real fast. U should be able to order a decent mh 2 bulb setup for a lil over 100. For starters pick up a hydrometer.

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