My runoff is testing at 4.7 for seedlings

Blitz35 said:

Not to mention..citric acid also helps with the uptake of phosphorus anions that may have become insoluble for one reason or another. These anions will attach themselves to the citric acid molecule and then can be delivered to the plant.

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Cool. Good to know. I've put some on order. Until that time, will a few drops of apple cider vinegar into my water suffice? I've read that its acceptable for a few rounds...but you know how that goes. Read this, read that, two completely different conclusions! @Tim1987 What were you referring to when you said my plants are "praying"? Do you suggest I add 1 cup of Dolomite Lime per 1.5CF of FFOF? That's another thing I've read that helps maintain the PH throughout the entire grow. I know dolomite lime is great for this, but in FFOF?

I just meant it sounds like they're happy
I like gypsum myself. The sulfur and calcium in gypsum, really help keep the soil buffered to 6-6.5.
I dont like lime or, dolomite lime so much. Dolomite's great for magnesium, but generally buffers to 7 or above.
I find using gypsum, if i ever need magnesium, i just feed em some ebsom one watering. You can even sprinkle a few crystals on top, for slow release.
I wouldn't say you'd need much gypsum in a large pot. Only a couple good handfuls.
Limes take several weeks to fully activate as well, good to bare in mind.
Gypsum is fantastic, for removing sodium, and breaking up clay soils too.

As you can tell i love the shit.
Highly recommend it

Tim1987 said:

As you can tell i love the shit.
Highly recommend it

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I hear you, brother! I just picked up my FFOF today, and a bag of perlite thats almost bigger than me I kid you not, lol. 14.99 per bag of FFOF from my local nursery. Hells yeah. And they have the Happy Frog dry fertilizer line ( https://foxfarmfertilizer.com/category/dry-fertilizers.html ) on sale for 8.99/bag. I didn't pick any of that up cause I didn't know much about it. AND the owner offered me some extra work on the side. I helped her a few years ago with her side business, planting for restaurants, businesses, rich people, etc. So you recommend the gypsum as an amendment to the OF? The reason I was thinking lime is because I know it takes a while to work, and I don't want to have PH issues when I go into flowering. Plus, I plan on a 6-8 week veg.

Id recommend the gypsum, because it doesnt affect your ph.
With lime, unless you're adding a ton of organic material, your ph will climb.
Thats why i like gypsum.
I can use manure, mulch etc, outside, and it wont affect my ph. Plus i still get the calcium, and sulphur.
It really is good shit.
Id prefer it in a container myself as well.
You just treat it the same as lime, when you dose.

In the end, if growing in actual clay based soil..dolomite is good, but as mentioned, in soilless mixes (those that contain predominantly sphagnum peat moss), lime will tend to buffer the medium closer to 7, whereas gypsum is neutral in ph and it wont affect your medium's ph ( the calcium and sulfur balance each other out), and in soilless mixtures like peat moss..it's probably a better option, so as to avoid higher ph issues. Depending on one's choice of nutes and amendments already in the soil, they both have their positives. As for the apple cider vinegar..i'd say for the moment, just use straight white vinegar, no need for the additives that are in apple cider..not to mention it can bring on unwelcome bacteria. Praying leaves are what you want..that's their way to tell you they are happy...(praying to the lights in other words), slightly angled upwards, in kind of a loose 'V' shape.

@Blitz35
Im guilty, of using too much lime before.
It was a disaster, worse than charcoal.
My ph was over 8, and i couldnt get it down lol
It was pretty funny shit.
A disaster, id rather not mention hehe.
Apparently bicarb soda has a ph of 9, it was insane.
I may as well, have planted in a container of bicarb lol.
It was fucked.

Tim1987 said:

@Blitz35
Im guilty, of using too much lime before.
It was a disaster, worse than charcoal.
My ph was over 8, and i couldnt get it down lol
It was pretty funny shit.
A disaster, id rather not mention hehe.
Apparently bicarb soda has a ph of 9, it was insane.
I may as well, have planted in a container of bicarb lol.
It was fucked.

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Except baking soda is not only high in ph, but it's filled with sodium..a double killer lol. Ya..I wasn't aware either when starting out years ago that peat moss was not considered to be 'soil', but I treated it as such..it dawned on me afterwards that damn, I've been ph'ing too high for pro mix lol...so I as well am leaving lime out since then...just a small top dress in flower if I've used the bag for a few grows..as peat moss can degrade and turn acidic quickly,

Blitz35 said:

Except baking soda is not only high in ph, but it's filled with sodium..a double killer lol. Ya..I wasn't aware either when starting out years ago that peat moss was not considered to be 'soil', but I treated it as such..it dawned on me afterwards that damn, I've been ph'ing too high for pro mix lol...so I as well am leaving lime out since then...just a small top dress in flower if I've used the bag for a few grows..as peat moss can degrade and turn acidic quickly,

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Ive tried 50/50 peat moss, to coco before.
It was awesome tbh. Kept my ph right around 6. Even when it was dry.
Just the cheapness of coco has steered me away.
But ive been really tempted to try it again, with a heap of chunky perlite.
Ive just never been bothered.
But damn it works.

Well, I was thinking of mixing the OF up today with perlite and EWC. I bought a 5 pound bag last night, so that's a pound per container. I was thinking 75% OF/EWC and 25% perlite. The seedling mix with 60-70% perlite just drains way to quickly and dries out pretty fast. They love it when I water them though.
As far as praying goes, they aren't doing that. I think they are kind of past that stage, their leaves are getting bigger and bigger. I top dressed them with EWC to try and keep some of that moisture in. I also bought a humidifier. It doesn't work very well. In the tent, it only get up to 40. Should have gone with a WarmMist instead of a CoolMist I think. Check out the gnarly one. What's her deal? I'm thinking it's still recovering from that funky soil I was using. She is one of two feminized seedlings (White Gold, WW x Himalaya Gold). The other 3 are doing great but they're just regular seeds (The Church x DeadheadOG). Initially, I had bought 5 feminized, only 2 germ'd. That's why I planted the others. I'm guessing I'll transplant them in about 3 or 4 days. Input would be appreciated! I'll post some pics tonight. My wife has them on her phone. Better camera.

Sounds good mate.
If its drying out too much, you should be able to mulch it a little with some of that soil you bought. Just dont put it right around, their trunks. Give them some room.
It'll keep water from evaporating out the top so fast. I wouldn't recommend any straw, or any shit like that indoors though.
Hear from you soon.

Tim1987 said:

Sounds good mate.
If its drying out too much, you should be able to mulch it a little with some of that soil you bought. Just dont put it right around, their trunks. Give them some room.
It'll keep water from evaporating out the top so fast. I wouldn't recommend any straw, or any shit like that indoors though.
Hear from you soon.

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Well, I think I might have seen a fungus gnat. I bought some sticky tape to check and see if I catch any. I saw something with wings crawling on the gnarly looking plant below. I lost sight of it and haven't seen anything since. Plants are starting to show some weird symptoms. Check out the pictures below. I just transplanted something like 4 days ago, maybe it has something to do with that?

This first pic is the gnarly one. She has really recovered though since the transplant, compared to how she used to look. She has been growing well aside from the disfigurement. The colors aren't accurate here. Plant is actually a darker green.

This next one is her sister. Her color is going weird on me. The camera captured her color pretty accurately. Hope I can get it worked out, whatever it is. She smells like peaches.


This next one is of an entirely different strain, The Church x DeadheadOG. Just noticed this discoloration on her first set of leaves today. Wasn't there last night. I've read it could be nutrient burn. This soil is really low on nutes though. Again, color isn't really representative of her actual color.


This final picture is a group shot of all of them. Despite ongoing issues, they really have come a long way in only 4 days...I feel like these plants are especially finicky/sensitive!


So, do you think I should go ahead and get ready for a transplant to their final pots in a few days? Or should I wait? Any idea about the discoloration on that little seedling? The seedling top center, above, has some curled tips, but it isn't heat stress. usually 77-78 in there and the light is over 2 feet away. Temp is higher in the pic cause I turned the fans off for the pics. If i could get some stable symptom free growth going on for at least a few weeks, I'd be a happy man! That's why I'm eager to transplant them to their FFOF. Slurry tested it with distilled water and leveled off right at 6.5.

Honestly,
I dont think they're too bad. At all.
They're still in recovery.
The soil may be a little hot. But i think they'll grow into it.
Remember too, if it ends up being that they're hungry, just hit em with some liquid shit.
IMHO, they'll be fine in those pots until they're 2-3 times the size.
Gnats are a bit of a pain. They love organics. Generally you get em from over watering. You'd be surprised how dry it can go, before the plants suffer.

The tiny white specks, in the first photo's just lime or something? I see its on the soil too.

Tim1987 said:

The tiny white specks, in the first photo's just lime or something? I see its on the soil too.

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When I first transplanted them I got a good amount of the perlite mix on them when I was filling in around the edges. I flicked them a bit and got the majority of it off. I figured it wouldn't hurt the plant. The stuff in the castings is perlite too, I'm pretty sure. Feels like it. And some cat hair. That stuff will come through walls. She hasn't been outside in almost a year though. Before they go into flower, I'm going to go active filtered air to keep it off the buds. The thing with the watering, is they only seem to grow like they should when I water them. I let it get slightly moist until I water. I've got a fan on the top dressing now though, letting it dry out quite a bit more before I water again. I don't want to have to deal with fungus gnats. Lol, this grow has me on my feet. Thanks for the input. I'll post back 2-3 days.

Tim1987 said:

Ive tried 50/50 peat moss, to coco before.
It was awesome tbh. Kept my ph right around 6. Even when it was dry.
Just the cheapness of coco has steered me away.
But ive been really tempted to try it again, with a heap of chunky perlite.
Ive just never been bothered.
But damn it works.

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Peat can get acidic over time if reusing it. Just a thought for those that recycle soil.

I use peat quit a bit and I've also gotten bad bales of peat that the ph was way out of wack. Had to dump it in my compost.

New soil out of a bag = bad soil

Just an update. I transplanted them to their final pots. 7 gallon FFOF w/ 1 pound of added EWC each, and 25% perlite. They're starting to explode. Question; I find that once I adjust the ph of the water, a day or so later it will climb back up .5-1 point. Is this normal? I would suspect the opposite to happen from evaporation. In any case, I don't let the water sit any longer than three days, but I have PH'd it as many times to keep it at 6.5. Weird.

Looking good. Looking good.

It'd just be the buffers they put in the ffof.

I wouldn't worry too much. If what you're doing is keeping the plants that healthy!!

Rock n Roll

Tim1987 said:

Looking good. Looking good.

It'd just be the buffers they put in the ffof.

I wouldn't worry too much. If what you're doing is keeping the plants that healthy!!

Rock n Roll

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Thanks, Tim.
I was referring to the clean water I keep in a bucket inside the tent as far as the PH goes. I wasn't very clear on that!

Yea. That would be normal depending on the ph solution used .

Mix a little lime and gypsum next time and don't worry about water ph. Good organic soil buffers ph. As the soil dries the ph swings also to allow proper nutrient uptake.


Looking better.