My poor seedlings

I started some seeds in peat pellets in a germination station on Jan 8, 2014. I used tap water with 2ml humbolts roots to start. I moved the seedlings to beer cups and fed 1/4 strength nutes (earth juice grow, microblast, catalyst) after they grew their first true leaves. The seedlings started off good but then began turning yellow with some brown spots on the bottom leaves. I removed the seedlings from the peat pellets and transplanted them into 2 gal pots and trimmed off the lower/dying leaves. I also flushed the promix hp with straight water thinking I over fed them. After a couple weeks there was no new growth up top so I moved them back to beer cups and fed half strength nutes to help the promix dry faster for better root growth. I then placed them about three feet under my mh light. The seedlings are now showing some new top growth and appear to be rooting better too. Here's my setup.

4x4 grow tent
Sun System Blockbuster reflector w/ 600 watt hortilux blue bulb (duct (outside tent)-hood-duct-hydrofarm 6" fan (outside tent)-duct to outside room.
humidifier
earth juice nutes
promix hp medium

I have been doing a tremendous amount of reading here and on other sites. I know I've made a number of mistakes but I am learning from them. I'm having a hard time typing because of lag so I'll stop here for now. I appreciate your thoughts and advise. Here are some pictures of my babies.

From what you have described it sounds like a lack of nutes, are there any in the soil already? If not, then by feeding them you've given them the nutes they need. If there are no nutes in the soil to start with then the plant can't get them from nothing.

They look like they are doing ok now, but go steady on the nutes as they are still quite small. Have you been checking the PH levels?

Like all newbies you are loving your plants to death. Put them back into the 3 gallon pots and leave them alone for at least 3-4 weeks while the roots fill the pot. Only water them when they are dry (not quite droopy) and they will do fine. If you keep doing things to them that will upset their normal growth you will kill them, stunt them, or force a hermie if it is genetically unstable.

plz dont listen to neo's post, your plants still have cotyledons no feeding nutes just let them grow. younger plants devote all their time to establishing a good root network

Do not listen to briccksquad!

Once plants have their first or second set of true leaves is when you want to start feeding.

What is the pH of the water and or nute solution.

It should be kept between 6.0 and 6.5

You're probably stressing them out with the repotting. I'd leave them alone for a while

Buzz'd said:

I started some seeds in peat pellets in a germination station on Jan 8, 2014. I used tap water with 2ml humbolts roots to start. I moved the seedlings to beer cups and fed 1/4 strength nutes (earth juice grow, microblast, catalyst) after they grew their first true leaves. The seedlings started off good but then began turning yellow with some brown spots on the bottom leaves. I removed the seedlings from the peat pellets and transplanted them into 2 gal pots and trimmed off the lower/dying leaves. I also flushed the promix hp with straight water thinking I over fed them. After a couple weeks there was no new growth up top so I moved them back to beer cups and fed half strength nutes to help the promix dry faster for better root growth. I then placed them about three feet under my mh light. The seedlings are now showing some new top growth and appear to be rooting better too. Here's my setup.

4x4 grow tent
Sun System Blockbuster reflector w/ 600 watt hortilux blue bulb (duct (outside tent)-hood-duct-hydrofarm 6" fan (outside tent)-duct to outside room.
humidifier
earth juice nutes
promix hp medium

I have been doing a tremendous amount of reading here and on other sites. I know I've made a number of mistakes but I am learning from them. I'm having a hard time typing because of lag so I'll stop here for now. I appreciate your thoughts and advise. Here are some pictures of my babies.

Click to expand...

Well the good news is you're not burning them. The bad news is they suffer a deficiency and there could be a few things causing that. First lockout: you can flush with ph'd water and no nutes and watch plants for a week. Second not enough food, Feed them. Or it could be something else and a little cal/mag will help. Also transplant them to bigger pots.

My guess is it's lockout. The soil you have them in is already hot and then you went and fed them so what I would do is flush with ph'd water and no food for a week and report back. Btw you keeping the water at 6.5ph?

I myself have done many soil grows. I will not buy premix as it just causes problems. Make your own and then you know what's in the soil. That stuff you got them girls in looks like a coating of brown sugar on top ewww.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/751139-how-do-you-think-there-23.html#post10217423 I got two grows in that thread. If you think I can help just ask.

Should be kept between 6.0 and 6.5 pH

In soil I always pH'd my water and my nute solution between 6.0 and 6.3

As plants feed,EC drops and pH rises allowing optimal uptake of all macros and micros.

Neo12345, I'm growing in Promix HP. I fed once with 1/4 strength Earth Juice when I put them in red cups initially. I thought they were experiencing nutrient toxicity so I flushed them when I put them in the 2gal pots. Then, when I moved put them back in the cups I used ph'd water only. They weren't showing any signs of growth so I watered them this past Sunday with 1/2 strength nutes. I was using the general hydro ph text kit, but I've since invested in a Oakton EcoTestr pH2 digital tester. I realized by testing the nutrient solution and the run off water that the root zone ph is too high. So, this next watering I will be working to lower the root zone ph.

CaretakerDad, I agree 100%. I definitely don't want to stunt their growth, or hermie, or at worse kill them.

Briccksquad, all the cotyledon leaves are gone. I'm growing in promix hp so there are no nutes except what I give them. I just started feeding nutes this last watering. Next two waterings will be with ph'd water only.
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Ou8aCracker2, the ph was too high. I tested the nute solution before watering and it was 6.2. The run off water was 7.0. So I know the root zone ph was too high. I'm working to bring it down within range. Also, I'm growing in Promix HP.

Wait, what?, so you think I should wait a while before putting them back in the 2 gal pots? I was going to wait at least another week. I agree, I have really stressed these poor babies.

Popcorn900, I'm using Promix HP so it's definitely not nute burn as I initially thought. I realized the root zone ph is too high, I've stressed them out from the beginning, and just hope I haven't caused any long term problems. Oh, that coating on top is the water/nute solution. I'm using Earth Juice grow, microblast, and catalyst. Also, I added 2ml of humbolts roots. That's what your seeing. I know...ewwww. Next two waterings will be just ph'd water.

So, what you guys think. Should I leave them alone for another week or so before putting them back in the 2 gal pots? Also, when I move them to bigger pots, should I bury the main stem to the bottom lobe or plant them as they stand now? Thanks for your hospitality folks. Time to smoke!

briccksquad said:

plz dont listen to neo's post, your plants still have cotyledons no feeding nutes just let them grow. younger plants devote all their time to establishing a good root network

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You obviously did not read the original post? Buzz said he was getting no growth after the first couple of sets of leaves, so he gave them some nutes and they perked up and are now growing well as we can see from the pictures. That to me says it was lack of nutes?

So really he has answered his own question, but I was trying to help him find the reason why. The Pro Mix HP is a soiless mix and may not contain any nutes which would have been my guess to the problem.

I would still suggest only a 1/4 strength for now rather than half as you don't want to burn them Buzz.

I would also agree with the other posters about keeping on repotting, stop stressing them out!! lol

A Word About pH and Nutrition

Ideal pH: The starting pH range for most PRO-MIX products is between 5.4-5.9. After watering and using fertilizer, the pH of the PRO-MIX is fluid and can change. Ideal pH for most crops is 5.5-6.2. If pH is higher, micronutrients become unavailable to the plant causing yellowing or distortion in new leaves. If the pH of the growing medium is lower, micronutrients are more available and if taken up in excessive quantities can cause leaf edge burn on the lower leaves.

Testing the pH of a crop: pH is best measured using the saturated media extract method (growing medium is removed from the root ball, distilled water is added to saturate the growing medium sample and the pH and salts are tested from the mud after 30 minutes). Some growers use a pour thru method, where a measured volume of distilled water is applied to the growing medium and the leachate (run-thru) is collected, but it is only as accurate as the amount leachate that comes out from the bottom of the container. If too much comes out, the pH and salts will be diluted and will not accurately reflect the levels in the growing medium. If too little comes out, the salts are concentrated and the pH is often unreliable, too. To avoid fluctuations, make sure the procedure is done the same way each time and measured accurately.

Maintaining the pH of PRO-MIX : There is a lot of misconception about the effects of ‘water pH’ on the pH of PRO-MIX. The truth is that the pH of the water has no bearing on the pH of the PRO-MIX. In other words, if the pH of the water is 5.5, that does not mean the pH of the PRO-MIX will be 5.5 overtime. So what influences the pH of the PRO-MIX?

1. Bicarbonates: Think of the bicarbonates in the water as dissolved limestone. If it is low (<50 ppm HCO3), then the pH of the PRO-MIX will not change much because there is little limestone supplied at very watering. If the bicarbonates are high >180 ppm HCO3, the media is being limed at every. This causes the pH of the PRO-MIX to rise to unacceptable levels (above 6.5), even if the pH of the water is 5.5. Ultimately the goal is to match up the fertilizer with the bicarbonates within the water.

Many companies recommend using water that has passed through a reverse osmosis unit. Often this is an unnecessary step, but it will filter out most of the bicarbonates from the water as well as beneficial calcium and magnesium. If the unit works properly, it will reduce the bicarbonates in the water to undesirable low levels. If you use a R.O. unit, it is best to blend the water R.O. water with some (505) of the source water to achieve a desirable bicarbonate level.

1. Fertilizer: Fertilizer elements that are absorbed by plant roots have an electrical charge. The plant root zone has to maintain its neutral electrical charge. For plant roots to uptake electrically charged nutrients, the root system must give off and exchange elements of the same charge. Therefore, for the plant’s roots to absorb positively charged ammonium, potassium, calcium or magnesium, the roots must give off hydrogen. Hydrogen is acid and will reduce the pH of the growing medium. If the root systems absorbs nitrate, phosphate and/or sulfate, it will release off negatively charged alkaline hydroxides – which increases the pH of the growing medium.

Of these elements, nitrogen is the only one that can have an acidic (ammonium and urea) or alkaline (nitrate) reaction with the plant roots. The ratio of these nitrogen forms within the fertilizer dictates whether the fertilizer is potentially acidic or alkaline, depending on how it is absorbed and reacts with plant root systems. As a guide, many fertilizer manufacturers will list the fertilizer’s “potential acidity” or “potential basicity” which indicates how much acid or base is added to the growing medium by the plant roots. Most growers will have their water tested and then match the fertilizer to the water quality. This matching will minimize pH fluctuations within the growing medium.
Having said all this, if the water has been processed through a reverse osmosis unit it most likely will have a slight change effect on the pH of the growing medium. However, any fertilizer will have a significant influence on the pH of the PRO-MIX. The fertilizer used should supply all 13 elements (N, P, K, Ca, Mg, SO4, Fe, Mn, B, Cu, Zn, Mo) and the fertilizer’s should provide potential acidity or potential basicity. Without this information, it is difficult to determine where the pH of the growing medium will go long term.

Common Nutritional Problems

New leaves are yellow or distorted: This is often caused by some type of micronutrient deficiency. Not all micronutrient deficiencies are caused by high pH. Many times there is fear in over-applying fertilizer so less is applied, which leads to nutrient deficiencies. Also many organic fertilizers contribute to this problem as they take up to 1-2 months to breakdown and become available to the plant in a soilless media. Calcium deficiency could be the cause of the problem too if leaf expansion is distorted. Other causes include air drafts or exposure to very bright light over long periods.

Old leaves are yellow: Most likely this is from nitrogen, potassium, sulfate or magnesium deficiency. If this is occurring, pH is not the issue. It is simply lack of application of these elements. Look at the fertilizer application rates, it may be too low. Organic fertilizers often cause this problem as it takes up to 1-2 months to breakdown and become available to the plant in a soilless media. Lower leaf yellowing could also be caused by lack of light, cold air draft or watering problems.

Plants don’t grow: Likely cause is from lack of fertilizer. Fertilizer, especially nitrogen, is like the gas pedal in a car. The high the nitrogen rate, the faster the plant grows (assuming the salts are not too high). If the fertilizer levels in the growing medium are too low, the plant will not grow. This is a common problem especially when using certain organic fertilizers. PRO-MIX contains a starter fertilizer that is for initial plant development, so you need to apply fertilizer to what the plant needs. If the product is aged (9-12 months after manufacturing date) the small amount of fertilizer in the product may be used up from microbial activity, therefore you will need to apply fertilizer from the beginning.
Other common causes of nutritional problems can be caused by growing environment and include cold growing medium and/or cold air temperatures, keeping plants too wet, root disease, over fertilization, etc.

neo12345 said:

You obviously did not read the original post? Buzz said he was getting no growth after the first couple of sets of leaves, so he gave them some nutes and they perked up and are now growing well as we can see from the pictures. That to me says it was lack of nutes?

So really he has answered his own question, but I was trying to help him find the reason why. The Pro Mix HP is a soiless mix and may not contain any nutes which would have been my guess to the problem.

I would still suggest only a 1/4 strength for now rather than half as you don't want to burn them Buzz.

I would also agree with the other posters about keeping on repotting, stop stressing them out!! lol

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Neo, so you would NOT repot them now? I agree on the nutes too. I'll use 1/4 strength next time I feed them and keep a close eye on them. I know they will tell me when they are hungary. They have been screaming at me for a few weeks. I'm a slow learner I guess. Having fun though and hoping for some "dank" weed. lol

neo12345 said:

A Word About pH and Nutrition

Testing the pH of a crop: pH is best measured using the saturated media extract method (growing medium is removed from the root ball, distilled water is added to saturate the growing medium sample and the pH and salts are tested from the mud after 30 minutes).

Click to expand...

Thanks neo12345. I will use this method next time I water them.

That article should tell you everything that you need to know about Pro Mix, especially the parts about PH and nutrients.

It's a learning curve for everyone, it can just start as a bit of a roller coaster! We tend to panic and over compensate things. Give them a week to recover if you've just repotted them, then they should be healthy enough to go in your final sized pots. I hope your grow goes well too, there is nothing more satisfying about smoking your own home grown weed!!

We're supposed to smoke it? I was going to give it away to elementary schoolers who can't get a MJ card

Wait said:

We're supposed to smoke it? I was going to give it away to elementary schoolers who can't get a MJ card

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lol

The only card we have over here is used for roach material!!

LOL *cough*

Neo....thanks. Getting ready to read it again, and again, and again lol

hi, ive spent 2days searching on forums now can't find an answer to a problem i have...... ALSO I CAN NOT FIND A WAY TO START MY OWN THREAD/QUESTION. ???

I germinated "4" purchased seeds (good company). I put them between wet kitchen towel etc.... all 4 sprouted a long tail within 48hrs. i planted them in good purchased soil 1/4 inch below surface Soil was 5.5-6.5ph thats what it said on the bag. 2 have sprouted tiny green stalks with 2 little leafs. BUT shriveled and died within 12hours i have a 400w hps in cupboard with a fan on them, the light is on 18/24. It was 10inches above the pots but ive raised it now to a good 15inches above. Have i lost these 2 plants now ? the first one that came through the soil was ok for 12hrs then it leaves just fell off and it drooped the other 2 haven;t showed up yet either.... it all smells like a very expensive failure to me (they have been in soil only 3 days thou). they are eager little seeds germinating in just 48hrs then popping out of the soil the next day LOL. BUT 2 died. 2 haven't shown yet (maybe died in the soil). Oh and i used a little bit of tomato feed too. I'M IN BITS TRYING TO GROW MY OWN (IN THE UK ITS EXPENSIVE).

Luwigy said:

hi, ive spent 2days searching on forums now can't find an answer to a problem i have...... ALSO I CAN NOT FIND A WAY TO START MY OWN THREAD/QUESTION. ???

I germinated "4" purchased seeds (good company). I put them between wet kitchen towel etc.... all 4 sprouted a long tail within 48hrs. i planted them in good purchased soil 1/4 inch below surface Soil was 5.5-6.5ph thats what it said on the bag. 2 have sprouted tiny green stalks with 2 little leafs. BUT shriveled and died within 12hours i have a 400w hps in cupboard with a fan on them, the light is on 18/24. It was 10inches above the pots but ive raised it now to a good 15inches above. Have i lost these 2 plants now ? the first one that came through the soil was ok for 12hrs then it leaves just fell off and it drooped the other 2 haven;t showed up yet either.... it all smells like a very expensive failure to me (they have been in soil only 3 days thou). they are eager little seeds germinating in just 48hrs then popping out of the soil the next day LOL. BUT 2 died. 2 haven't shown yet (maybe died in the soil). Oh and i used a little bit of tomato feed too. I'M IN BITS TRYING TO GROW MY OWN (IN THE UK ITS EXPENSIVE).

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Sounds like one of two things or both, you may have damaged them transplanting and your light is way too close and powerful for seedlings. They need a warm gentle light, not popping up in front of the sun!

Have you thought about using jiffy pellets or rockwool cubes to germinate in, then transplant the whole thing into soil?

Keep that light well away from them, and keep temps at a reasonable level.

Well, thanks to you guys and member "Bucees" my seedlings are doing much better. Last Thursday I watered them and then transplanted them into their final 2gal pots. On Sunday, I used 1Tbsp Earth Juice Grow, 1tsp Catalyst, 1tsp Microblast, and 2ml Humbolt's Roots per gallon of water that had been mixed up in a five gallon bucket and aerated with an air stone for 24 hours. My tap water is 245ppm and after mixing and aerating my nutrient solution it measured around 350ppm. I should have wrote down the final ppm, but I know it was a little lower than Bucees advised in his thread about ph/ppm. I then measured out 1qt of nutrient solution for each 2gal pot.

Is it really necessary to aerate my nutrient solution prior to using it?
How can I determine what the "bicarbonate" ppm is of my tap water is?
Should I use the Microblast with every watering? I remember reading somewhere it's only used a couple times during Veg.

Here are a few pictures of my seedlings today.