My first 60 days growing- bagseed to AK-48 & Afghan, ff soil, Microkote experiments

I tried to grow three rounds of bagseed (nearly four dozen seeds), and I grew all runts but two, which grew to plants - but then one died when a light fell on her. So after 46 seeds I had one plant growing. But the girl that did grow almost drowned, her story is at post #2.


Got started on April 21 by germinating 12 bagseed.

DAY 1 Bagseed round 1 [12 seeds, all runts]
Germinated 12 seeds in little grow plugs that expand with water (those starter kits often found near the cash register when paying). Moved best eight to 5inch planters without holes (built in tray) using standard potting soil. Grew a batch of stretchy runts. All tossed.


DAY 10 Bagseed round 2 [24 seeds, 22 runts, 1 plant stille going a big girl, hardy bagseed plant]
Germed 24 in moist paper towels, moved to egg carton (saw it in a book), then to 18oz solo cups once viable. Upcanned the best 8 too soon into 2.5 gallon pots (still using only cheap soil). Gave 'em probably too little light, than moved to HID and gave too much.


















DAY 33 Bagseed round 3 [10 seeds, all runts]
Germed 10 in papertowels, moved to cups and they were all runts. Tried to revitalize best three of them, and got them to grow, but they’re now just runts that are growing . . . Put ‘em outside a few days ago under the longest days we got here and a sun that will amost certainly bake them to death in coming months.

The one in back in green pot - actually two days older than the six genetic plants in front.




Again, older sisters by two days are in green pots, compared to genetic seeds growing like lettuce-weeds.





Finally kicked them outside with the gnat ridden cheap dirt in which they sat (couple of days ago under sun, around 4 weeks from germination).




DAY 35 Genetic seeds round 1 [AK-48 and Afghan, 6 seeds, all thriving - finally found and bought some foxfarms soils on Day 34]

DAY 49 Bagseed round 4 [6 seeds, all thriving]
Germinated in cup of water for 12-18 hours. Using only seeds that sank when soaking in cup of water (6 of 20 sank right away), and using the Light Warrior/Ocean Forest soil mix (around 70/30) made a huge difference in bagseed growth a couple of weeks after germination. Still using moist paper towels, but the worst possible tweezer (from a mini-pocket knife) makes for poor handling of these fragile, delicate, barely seedlings.




Yes, these really are bagseed. Amazing.





DAY 51 Genetic seeds round 2 [6 seeds, 5 thriving, 1 MIA]


Conclusion: two changes made a difference like day & night to my bagseed grow efforts: using quality soil, and only seeds that sank. My first 46 seeds might have been floaters and were planted in run of mill mediocre soil; my last 6 were all sinkers, that grew their first 2 weeks in very good starter soil. Also, having the 23w CFLs closer improved the results (earliest rounds used too little light, too far away).

One out of 46 ain't bad, it's awful. But try as I could I've been unable to kill this (hopeful) girl, hardy plant.

After 3 rounds of bagseed, one plant grew.

I overwatered, overheated (a foot from 400w MH before ready), poorly FIMmed, transplanted to smaller pot (and lost bottom layer of roots in the process, I'd used styrofoam nuggets for bottom 2 inches for drainage (again, saw it in book) and as I scooped out the rootball, that bottom mess of mud, roots, and styrofoam was going nowhere). Oh, and the water I used was largely "softened" water that had high salt content and most of the cal/mg removed.

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The major mistake (aside from too big a pot, at 2.5 gallons as a small seedling) was misinterpreting a yellowing bottom leaf. It was water stress from too much, not a nitro def. I added more water, and almost certainly made mud. Did my best to dry it out, poking chopstick holes to help speed evaporation (probably butchering a few roots). Five days later I took drastic action of down-canning, into mostly dry ff oceanforest, and some rooting .

Five days later she was thriving (in the middle there she got five hours of direct sunlight).

30 days from germination.



When I tried to FIM her, all I really did was cut off some leaf, cut most of that sprout sticking up at apical meristem. [she's in 2.5 gallong pot]




41 days from germination. Signs of life returning. She's in her 2 gallon, with new soil to replace the mud that filled her previous 2.5 gallon house (at the time was smallest I had to downsize her into).






[TO RIGHT] 50 days from germination. She's thriving, but not much plant, I know, for her age (even excluding the week or so lost to stress). Her genetic cousin next to her is only 25 days from germination.




Here's some overall grow data:

Soil: Scotts and some other brand “premium potting soil”. By the time I planted the genetic seeds (AK48, Afghan, and a hybrid) I’d bought Foxfarms OF and LW having read up a bit. Solo cups 18oz full of 70/30 of foxfarms LW/OF. Upcanned into soil of the opposite ratio (30/70). All the OF was first cut to achieve 70/30 of OF/perlite.

Water: usually mix half tap with half bottled (purified) water. My tap is hard water, comes from a limestone aquafier, pH is around 7.2 to 8.0 unless the reader is wrong (7.2 from tap, but after sitting it creeps up). “Hard” in simple terms means has higher Cal and Mg, so I hired a company to install soft water filter. Big mistake, gotta fire them now that I’ve since learned they use salt to soften (i.e. bind to and reduce quantities of Cal/Mg.) the water making it a waste of money. So I’ll try half bottled and half hard water (damned bottle water delivered is 20 gallons for $28 a month -industrial bottles, I’ll later try to wean off it). The salty soft water was ignorantly used for nearly two weeks (day #s 39-50). It costs $50 a month for softener -thank god I rented- so I’ll cancel it, screw the soap issues (hard water doesn’t break down soaps as well as soft).

Light: a lot of 24/0 to start (but at barely sufficient wattage). Since June 1 (starting day #40) it’s been 18/8. light supplied by a growing number of 23w CFLs (initially 3500K, then 5000K when I could find them, and recently found some 6500K finally; output is 1600 lumens per bulb and they say “100w equivelent”). A few at first and it’s grown to 16 sockets total (eight doubles, using shop lights and Y splitters). By the time plants are a 1 inch sprout and 4 tiny leaves they each have a 23w CFL within 1-2 inches. I’ve also used some CFLs after I moved the plants to HID as a little supplemental perimeter lighting. HID: 400w MH (but I have HPS bulb too that fits ballast, and another 400w to allow for an expanded footprint if enough turn out to be chicks). Second HID will be added as HPS during veg (when they’re upcanned) with some testing which has better growth (some mostly under the MH and others under the HPS).

Temps and RH (pretty much ideal): lows of 65 degrees 35%RH, and highs of 85 degrees and 70RH (the latter probably for just a few hours in the wee hours when the AC turns off). All the lights-on hours so far have run 40-55RH. But temps got up to 95 for a brief while as I got up to speed, it all hasn’t been roses.

Food: not much. Since they feed off the cotys the first couple of weeks, then transplanted to cheap “premium” soil (later FF Ocean Forest). Each of the few times I transplant I’ve used ¼ to 1/3 food a day before I upcan, and again to settle the plant into its new home. With the Genetic seeds, after 2 weeks in the solo cups saw some yellow starting at the bottom leaves and cotys so I fed in response. Seemed a good time to transplant a day later, but they haven’t needed much food. To tide me over I’m using MG general plant food 24-8-16 which is cheapest of all my ingredients, whether water soil or air (I’m using AC). Have some better plant nutrients on the way for when their hunger exceeds my desire to upcan into more new rich soil (heh).

DAY 35 Genetic seeds round 1 [AK-48 and Afghan, 6 seeds, all thriving - finally found and bought some foxfarms soils on Day 34]

Genetic seeds from BDS, all these seeds are day to night compared to my bagseed grow efforts.

Finally germinated some genetics that I’d patiently waited a couple weeks to plant, I bought from Buy Dutch Seeds, using paper towel germination on May 25.

I bought (got 10 seeds each):
Afghan
AK-48
Free Hybrid

3 days after germination: planted taproots/seeds into 18 oz solo cups (around 70/30 foxfarms LW:OF, although I was careless about ratio)

~13 days after germination
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16 days after germination: [moved to HID 400w MH full time, eased in over 5 days]

Around 16 days after germination, just before transplant up to either 1 gal Microkote, or 2 gal untreated pots.

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I transplanted three plants into 1 gal Microkote (here's an idea of how I got a quick transplant), to see how it contrasts with sister plants put into 2 gallon untreated. Tried to use similar soils, and similar level of wetness. I added a little mound of soil at bottom of hole, and then a dusting of MG rooting powder. Watered half/half with some superthrive water/half-strength MG food 24-8-16 after upcanning to settle them into new homes.



Transplanted three on a Wed. as above (they were the three first showed signs of yellowing cots and bottom leaves so they were fed 1/3 strength MG a day earlier), and then Friday transplanted the other three - this time without superthrive (still some weak mg food) and without the rooting powder at bottom of molded hole. Instead I added 1.5 tbl of myco fungi grains (at the time hadn't learned it took at least a couple weeks after watering to get going). Will report observations if any of these differences mattered in retrospect.



23 days after germination, a few days after transplant (a few bagseed stragglers in green floodpots) and the big girl homegrown from my second post to far left.

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25 days after germination, day of decapitation for three of them ("4-cola method," probably fucked it up though).

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26 days after germination

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DAY 51 Genetic seeds round 2 [6 seeds, 5 thriving, 1 MIA]

I just germed another six seeds and 5 are growing great after a week (I dropped one, or lost it or it was a dud).

10 days from germination


A couple of experiments I'll try to monitor: yield from topping for 4 cola vs yield unmolested. Size/yield of plant with middle pot coated with copper paint. Both will end in untreated pots, but the Microkote will end in a 3 gal when they've outgrown their Micro. 1 gal pots they're in now, while non-Micros will likely go 18oz to 2 gal (presently) to 4 gal.

~13 days after germination



Around 16 days after germination, just before transplant up to either 1 gal Microkote, or 2 gal untreated pots.

View attachment 2709545

23 days after germination, a few days after transplant (a few bagseed stragglers in green floodpots) and the big girl homegrown from my second post to far left.



25 days after germination, day of decapitation for three of them ("4-cola method," probably fucked it up though).



26 days after germination

When I topped my 3 genetic plants (AK48, Afghan, and hybrid) I also tried to root the tops as clones (three sprouts). And I cut three 'suckers' from the bottom of the big girl to make the cloning experiment more worthwhile (three sprouts).

Cloned in light warrior, with dynagro rooting gel, using methods described in common in several posts at various forums online. Maybe a chapter or two in the books, so: cut under water or tweak stem to avoid embolism, score (slice into, vertically) bottom 1/2 inch of stem with exacto knife to facilitate root development, coat in root gel. So tried to wet the FF LW soilless medium, pack a layer down in cup, placed stem inside and surrounded with more moist FF-LW, pressed out air/packed down, watered till nice drain flowed, put in my 'propogator' (cardboard box with platic cover) and have kept misted & moist for 2 days now.




May all flop, but I'll give it a try and report noteable results.

Just noticed that I have to invite comments o/w members can't post in the thread.

My whole point in posting is to learn and let others benefit if I have anything useful to share.

Please, any and all comments are welcome !

Next week will probably be time to up-size the plants.

Those in 1 gal Microkote will go to 2.5 gallon (3 plants). [5 g.]

Those in 2 gal untreated will jump to 4 gal pots (4 plants). [7.5 g.]

The seedlings (5 genetic seeds, 6 bagseed that grew big, 11 total) will need 1 gal Microk. or 2 gal untreated homes soon too. [15 g.]

So I need around 28 gallons of soil.

Have a bag of OF (~9.5 gal.) and a bag of Happy Frog (~13 gal.) and I made around 10 gallons and I'll mix em up (w a bit more perlite or maybe a small bag of vermiculite). So I have total around 32 gal that tomorrow will go into pots, moistened a bit more to prime it a little.

Should have found some Kelp Meal (have tried unsuccessfully for a month and over a half dozen places), but otherwise got most of what should be needed.

Here's the mix I made (~10 gal. or a bit over 1.5 cubic ft.):

5.5 gal. Can. Sphagn. Peat
2.5 g. Perlite
2 g. worm castings
mixed it up thoroughly

1.1 cup Bone Meal
.8 c. Blood Meal
1 cup "Rocket Fuel" (see below)
1 cup Epsom salt
1.5 cup dolomite
1.5 tsp. Azomite

Sprinkled it down with a couple of pints of tap (hard, limestone aquifer, public) water that runs a little alky (around 7.2-.

Shook it and mixed it and shook it (peat absorbed most of the water) sprinkled a bit more and shook it and now it's settling in for a day or a week (depending on when I set up the pots).

Wish I'd had some Kelp per most of the recipes I've found (still at very beginning of learning curve) so I wanna stick to script unless I've some reason to deviate.

The "rocket fuel" was the potassium jolt to make up for missing weeds from sea all the recipe's called for - it's 2-6-1, and has lots of good sounding stuff:



Better than the Muriate of Potash I have (suspect it's way too much sodium).

And I got the wrong Alfafa, should have got pellets but cannot find this either. It's basically like hay (still rabbit food, but the wrong form). So I have it soaking in water and I'll poke at it as it decomposes, and maybe in some weeks I can put it to some use.


Tooks some pics of the girls a day or two ago and they're growing pretty well -around 28 days from seeds, and 4 days after topping. The ones that were topped (UB's 4 cola method) reacted differently - the Afghan, as advertised (somewhere, if not actually part of the BDS description) didn't react as well to topping as the AK48 which seems to have responded best of the three (the other was just called sativa-indica "hybrid").



The clones are standing strait (not wilting) but don't show new growth (only a handful of days). Keeping 'em in high-humidity environment.