My doc says things aren't going to happen....

To back up the ops,physicians conclusion. The college of doctors in Quebec have already turned down the program and are not taking place. This is already a violation to patients in quebec, if this was deligated as a provincial program then fine for quebec but its not, its canada wide, all for 1 and 1 for all.

Small scale licensed growers won't be able to compete with the big corporate growers...It's just not possible, they have economy of scale which the little guy does not.

Add to this, the pretty small market for medicinal marihuana, and, it's going to be dog-eat-dog in that space.

I think her point was that patients are going to be going to their physicians thinking that they are going to sign them up and her position was that drs. Don't want anything to do with it. Patients are going to have just as much trouble getting papers signed as they did before.

ThirstyRoss said:

Small scale licensed growers won't be able to compete with the big corporate growers...It's just not possible, they have economy of scale which the little guy does not.

Add to this, the pretty small market for medicinal marihuana, and, it's going to be dog-eat-dog in that space.

Click to expand...

I mentioned that I may start looking into becoming an LP and her response was not to waste my time because it is large corporations that will be doing the growing. she said she didn't see small scale operations being able to afford the costs associated and no I didn't get specifics.

How do you figure small scale licensed growers wont be able to compete against big grows.

How does one know the economies of scale for large growing vs small grow shows?

Whether its 50 lights vs 500 light shows
1) The program is just starting - Meaning everyone is at the same point and has to find customers
2) commercial grade electricity is charged pretty much the same rates
3) Just because you can produce say 50,000 pounds of product can you sell all of that vs a small show that may produce 5000 pounds of product.
4) In business Push/Pull strategies work best, meaning as inventory lowers new product is coming along.
5) Most people would rather get from mom and pop boutique style then say Major Corps.

and its a large market?

FROM 50,000 people say one has 50 - 100 patients
@ 1 gram a day or 1 oz per month
Selling rate of $5 gram
30 grams x $5 = $150
$150 x 50 people $7500
$150 x 100 people $15,000

So 100 oz where sold or 6.25 pounds of product.
My point at bare minimum,
Your selling at health Canada's rate $5
1 gram a day value for 50 - 100 patients.

Now what if you have patients that have 3 grams per day or 5 grams per day @ $5 selling rate?

that now turns into
90 grams x $5 = $450
$450 × 50 people = $22,000
just based of 3 grams per day x 50 people.

NOW what it cost to produce those pounds there is more then doable, and if you cant make a profit, you shouldn't enter this business venture.

So come again with another argument besides economies of scale, because your cost are not mines and this is more then doable.

ThirstyRoss said:

Small scale licensed growers won't be able to compete with the big corporate growers...It's just not possible, they have economy of scale which the little guy does not.

Add to this, the pretty small market for medicinal marihuana, and, it's going to be dog-eat-dog in that space.

Click to expand...

If their patient base is local, small grows might have the edge in shipping costs, but I am clueless as to how significant that would be.

Serve your country, get free healthcare for life. I'm not going to pay for any insurance during my lifetime and won't even be asked to. I don't pay for prescriptions, glasses, etc. I can even go to a nursing home for free, if needed. (Hope they don't find my grow in my little room.)

Do you guys think we should put in renewals this year just in case their new system is flushed down the shitter?

my renewal is going in at the end of this month for January. if the MMAR gets extended I would be covered. if the MMPR takes effect March 31, 2014 I am preapproved to purchase from a LP (not that I would) and wouldn't need a new signature from a doc.

user hidden said:

my renewal is going in at the end of this month for January. if the MMAR gets extended I would be covered. if the MMPR takes effect March 31, 2014 I am preapproved to purchase from a LP (not that I would) and wouldn't need a new signature from a doc.

Click to expand...

How do you figure that will work out for you? I understand that you have to give your dr note to the LP in order to get you meds. If you don't..you don't get meds. If you don't get an LP how would you explain your possession, should that ever come up?

Nocollins2k said:

How do you figure small scale licensed growers wont be able to compete against big grows.

How does one know the economies of scale for large growing vs small grow shows?

Whether its 50 lights vs 500 light shows
1) The program is just starting - Meaning everyone is at the same point and has to find customers
2) commercial grade electricity is charged pretty much the same rates
3) Just because you can produce say 50,000 pounds of product can you sell all of that vs a small show that may produce 5000 pounds of product.
4) In business Push/Pull strategies work best, meaning as inventory lowers new product is coming along.
5) Most people would rather get from mom and pop boutique style then say Major Corps.

and its a large market?

FROM 50,000 people say one has 50 - 100 patients
@ 1 gram a day or 1 oz per month
Selling rate of $5 gram
30 grams x $5 = $150
$150 x 50 people $7500
$150 x 100 people $15,000

So 100 oz where sold or 6.25 pounds of product.
My point at bare minimum,
Your selling at health Canada's rate $5
1 gram a day value for 50 - 100 patients.

Now what if you have patients that have 3 grams per day or 5 grams per day @ $5 selling rate?

that now turns into
90 grams x $5 = $450
$450 × 50 people = $22,000
just based of 3 grams per day x 50 people.

NOW what it cost to produce those pounds there is more then doable, and if you cant make a profit, you shouldn't enter this business venture.

So come again with another argument besides economies of scale, because your cost are not mines and this is more then doable.

Click to expand...

I am one of those patients with a prescription for 450g/ month and you are insane if you think I would spend that kind of money on my medication. I think I would rather go to jail! This is where this program will fail!! Sick people do not have substantial enough income to be able to afford the prices lp's are going to charge. This is not reasonable access by any stretch of the imagination.

Without a doubt, having to purchase your meds will be far more expensive than growing them yourself. But purchasing them from an LP, and the receipt you will receive, will allow you to claim your meds as a medical expense.

10 medical tax deductions that can save you money - Business - CBC News

when the MMAR/MMPR exemptions expire at the end of March 2014 anyone holding a pink paper for possession just has to show that to an LP. no new Dr not required until renewal next time.

WHATFG said:

How do you figure that will work out for you? I understand that you have to give your dr note to the LP in order to get you meds. If you don't..you don't get meds. If you don't get an LP how would you explain your possession, should that ever come up?

Click to expand...

I had some friends looking into becoming a commercial op. They said they were looking at a $5,000,000 startup cost, minimum.

Some crazy shit about needing to sterilize shit with an autoclave, and absolutely insane security protocols. You need to be equipped like a Pharmaceutical laboratory.

redi jedi said:

Without a doubt, having to purchase your meds will be far more expensive than growing them yourself. But purchasing them from an LP, and the receipt you will receive, will allow you to claim your meds as a medical expense.

10 medical tax deductions that can save you money - Business - CBC News

Click to expand...

That math still will not work for most patients because they don't have substantial income. Even at $5/g I don't have a spare $27,000 of disposable income. Just because I can write it off, doesn't mean I get it back. That is a lot of money. I may go to WCB,but that will be a fucking nightmare in and of itself.

I assume you ment 500,000 but made a typo.

You're only going to get refunded from the taxman what you paid to them in taxes. So if you had to pay an LP $7 a gram say on 10 grams a day...that's $70 per day X 365= $25,550. I doubt you'll get that much of a refund from the tax man. So consider finding my thread about the email from John Conroy and donate some money to continue the legal battle against this idiotic program. It's on this canadian patients page. Do we continue to complain and do nothing about it or do we put our jerseys on and grab out sticks and say Game on as reasonable canadians should? Let's fight this bastard in court through John Conroy.

Of course smokes didn't have the black market to contend with and weed does. I really have a hard time seeing prices rise to 12-18$/g and stay there as many would just hit the black market. Plus it's still extremely profitable at 5 or $6/g's.


Edit: Nevermind. This was a response to someone who deleted their post after I responded lol.

user hidden said:

my renewal is going in at the end of this month for January. if the MMAR gets extended I would be covered. if the MMPR takes effect March 31, 2014 I am preapproved to purchase from a LP (not that I would) and wouldn't need a new signature from a doc.

Click to expand...

They aren't accepting any renewals or applications anymore. I know someone who recently got their renewal and it was only until Dec 31st, 2013. They can fuck you if they want to it seems and the only recourse you have is a lawsuit which you probably can't afford.

redi jedi said:

Without a doubt, having to purchase your meds will be far more expensive than growing them yourself. But purchasing them from an LP, and the receipt you will receive, will allow you to claim your meds as a medical expense.

10 medical tax deductions that can save you money - Business - CBC News

Click to expand...

How much taxes do you pay? Exemptions only go so far for most people.