MUST Winterize for Hard Shatter?

Steele_GreenMan

Steele_GreenMan

Well-Known Member
hey guys, just wondering,

have any of you been able to pull off hard, breakable shatter without winterizing?

im assuming it could be strain depenedant as well but, gennerally speaking is it possible?

im super busy and dont have the extra time/ and i prefer the terps/ medical effcets to remain.

only gotten pull n snap so far
 
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Steele_GreenMan

Steele_GreenMan

Well-Known Member
SnapsProvolone said:
Its possible with fresh, non aged (decarbed) material, key is to extract with super frozen tubes leaving a lot of garbage behind that would otherwise be dropped during winterization.
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cool thanks snaps, glad to hear from ya.

i just ordered up a closed column pressurized open blaster from EE so ill def try throwin it in the freezer while its loaded.

now when you say decarbed, do you mean relativly fresh, non cured, and thrown in the oven at 200 for 15 mins or?
 
Steele_GreenMan

Steele_GreenMan

Well-Known Member
butsack said:
did you buy the purge kit?:roll:
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i have a vac purge kit already bruh.
have made a couple runs with it and a glass tube with metal filter, but the pic in my avatar was my latest most sucessful batch.

I used to just blast into pyrex and heat purge before i knew any better, did that like ten or so times over the last decade lol, usually ended up pretty hrash after a long slow heat purge....almost wished i just used ISO extraction but i never really grew anything of high enough quality to pull off anything decent up until a couple years ago.

But Dont worry homie i did plenty of homework and subsequently a few shitty trial runs ;)

I have made pull and snap consistancy bho on my last run using my vac, just looking to up my yeilds and my quality so i can enjoy and share more with my friends :)
 
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SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Steele_GreenMan said:
cool thanks snaps, glad to hear from ya.

i just ordered up a closed column pressurized open blaster from EE so ill def try throwin it in the freezer while its loaded.

now when you say decarbed, do you mean relativly fresh, non cured, and thrown in the oven at 200 for 15 mins or?
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I dry to about 55% (just dryer than curing, leave a bit of moisture to help freeze up chlorophylls) then tubed, frozen and run. Any aging or heat looses terpenes and decarbs and that's very anti shatter. Aim to purge no higher than 100f film temp for best terpene retention and least decarboxylation.
 
jdubwetherell1988

jdubwetherell1988

Well-Known Member
Yield is usually 10-15 %

18-24 hour under a fan with a nylon stocking around the pyrex dish to keep floaters out. Yup no heat except to scrape it off the pyrex dish 105-110° F

This is what it looks like after about 10-14 hours. The white is leftover water since iso evaporates faster than water
20141016_191618.jpg
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
jdubwetherell1988 said:
Yield is usually 10-15 %

18-24 hour under a fan with a nylon stocking around the pyrex dish to keep floaters out. Yup no heat except to scrape it off the pyrex dish 105-110° F

This is what it looks like after about 10-14 hours. The white is leftover water since iso evaporates faster than water
View attachment 3293004
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The white water has oil suspended. Let it evap too before you scrape. ;)
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Steele_GreenMan said:
hey guys, just wondering,

have any of you been able to pull off hard, breakable shatter without winterizing?

im assuming it could be strain depenedant as well but, gennerally speaking is it possible?

im super busy and dont have the extra time/ and i prefer the terps/ medical effcets to remain.

only gotten pull n snap so far
Click to expand...
Cannabis creates the diterpene cannabinoids in their carboxylic acid form, which is hard and brittle at room temperature.

It is made softer by the inclusion of plant waxes and retention of monoterpenes and sesquiterpenes.

The Carboxylic Acid forms lose their carboxyl group (COOH) with aging, and they become a Phenol. The phenolic forms are softer and are not shatter at ambient temperatures.

Aging also allows the monoterpenes to evaporate away, and as they are alcohols, ethers, aldehydes, ketones, esters, etc, which are acting as a solvent, some curing/drying also can harden up aromatic taffy, if they are retained in their carboxylic acid forms.

Removing the waxes through winterization will also harden up the extract, if you don't decarboxylate it removing the alcohol, but removing the alcohol also allows more of the monoterpenes to exit, which are the dominant smells and tastes of cannabis concentrates.

Extracting BHO at ultra low temperatures doesn't dissolve as many of the plant waxes, so winterization may not be required, thus preserving more terpenes.
 

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Steele_GreenMan

Steele_GreenMan

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Cannabis creates the diterpene cannabinoids in their carboxylic acid form, which is hard and brittle at room temperature.

It is made softer by the inclusion of plant waxes and retention of monoterpenes and sesquiterpenes.

The Carboxylic Acid forms lose their carboxyl group (COOH) with aging, and they become a Phenol. The phenolic forms are softer and are not shatter at ambient temperatures.

Aging also allows the monoterpenes to evaporate away, and as they are alcohols, ethers, aldehydes, ketones, esters, etc, which are acting as a solvent, some curing/drying also can harden up aromatic taffy, if they are retained in their carboxylic acid forms.

Removing the waxes through winterization will also harden up the extract, if you don't decarboxylate it removing the alcohol, but removing the alcohol also allows more of the monoterpenes to exit, which are the dominant smells and tastes of cannabis concentrates.

Extracting BHO at ultra low temperatures doesn't dissolve as many of the plant waxes, so winterization may not be required, thus preserving more terpenes.
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very informative, thanks !

its good to know the science behind it.
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Steele_GreenMan said:
very informative, thanks !

its good to know the science behind it.
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Welcome; I believe that the fish trap exists only because of the fish, and it is always good to understand the reasons (fish) for rules and laws of science, so we can violate them properly and bend them to our will. Hee, hee, hee..................

It is relatively easy to extract our targeted compounds using any number of different processes, but the test of a process is purging the solvent used, without giving up the monoterpenes or decarboxylating the carboxylic acids.

Butane and propane work well because of their low boiling points, when used in conjunction with enough heat to liquefy the essential oil mixture in a thin film, and under vacuum to assist the butane's breaking the remaining surface tension.
 
Steele_GreenMan

Steele_GreenMan

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
Welcome; I believe that the fish trap exists only because of the fish, and it is always good to understand the reasons (fish) for rules and laws of science, so we can violate them properly and bend them to our will. Hee, hee, hee..................

It is relatively easy to extract our targeted compounds using any number of different processes, but the test of a process is purging the solvent used, without giving up the monoterpenes or decarboxylating the carboxylic acids.

Butane and propane work well because of their low boiling points, when used in conjunction with enough heat to liquefy the essential oil mixture in a thin film, and under vacuum to assist the butane's breaking the remaining surface tension.
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yeah ive heard this philosophy before:" don't break the rules until you fully understand them". Lmao im still trying..

But honestly thanks to you and @SnapsProvolone and @Fadedawg everyone else.

I've learned an assload, but have alot more to learn still im sure

also my shitty mistakes in the first place made me learn as well.lmao

Ive been sharing my last batch that happened to turn out nicely with everyone i can, trying to spread the love because extracts are super hard to come by around here
 
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