Most disorganised, last minute grow ever!

I can't believe how much the widows have grown, they're so big and bushy and lush! They're coming on pretty well. I top dressed them yesterday with bone meal mixed up in coco, I wanted to add more coco anyway as it seems to have shrunk somehow as it's been completely filled with root growth, so I mixed the bone meal in for an extra phosphorous and calcium boost for flowering since we're using Canna Coco A&B for both veg and flower phases. It was pretty gross, and the dog wouldn't leave me alone, so hopefully the girls will appreciate it! The plant that I used to practise LST on is looking pretty good too, I've got it on a bucket so it's as close to the lights as the others and it's got so many tops on it, it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the others when we harvest. I've just been in and tied it all back down where it had grown out, but the pic is from this morning. Her name is Lester.

The little cheeses are just monsters, I repotted them on Saturday into medium sized square pots out of the little round ones as they were getting a bit root bound but I needed them small enough that they'd still fit comfortably in the veg closet. They're already showing root out the drainage holes. I love those plants! I've FIMmed them and I'm trying to keep the bonsai style one growing how I want it, it's good to practise training them, I figure, and it's just a great plant, lovely shape on it, I've become rather attached. I wanted to keep it as a mother plant to take clones from cos I really didn't want to have to chop her down, I thought I could just keep her forever as a miniature but the other half didn't appreciate the idea. We shall see. I've named them Thelma and Louise, cos they're awesome.

And my clone attempts are doing nothing at all. They're not dying, they're not growing, their leaves aren't yellowing, they just sit there day after day and I still see no sign of roots so no idea what's happening there but I wasn't expecting anything from them anyway. I thought they'd be dead by now.

Geeze they are looking good!! Way to go don't worry about the clones, they can be a bugger to get started. The only other advice I can give on the clones would be to slowly get them out from under the humidity dome. Every time I use domes I regret it. I think the high humidity slows down root formation. This might be due to the fact that the plants don't need water because of the high humidity, no need for water, no need to grow roots quickly. I have cut the dome out completely. If you cut he clones properly, and mist them a few times a day for the first two days you shouldn't have any problem with them. When I started the no dome regimen I freaked out because an hour after I cut them they were all laying on their sides, and looking like they died. After many years of playing around I figured out a few things that imo cause this. Improper cloning technique, and not misting soon enough or frequently enough. Here is my method, which is only one of thousands out there, but has got my clone success rate to 99% survival and 7 days for root formation, 10 for full blown root growth. First and most importantly, never let the clone cut end remain in air. I trim all my clones on the plant (cut off excess branches, leaves, and cut the remaining leaves half way back from their tips). Once the clone is ready to go, I use scissors and cut it a couple cm below where my final cut will be. Dip it immediately into a cup of water so there will be no chance of air embolism. Once the stem is saturated, I take a clean, sterile razor blade, and recut the stem to the desired length. Make sure to cut at a 45 degree angle or greater, and dip it imidiatly into your rooting hormone (I've had the best luck with clonex, or Olivia's clone gel) so that it seals the wounded end. You can then put it into whatever medium your using, and mist the leaves with plain water, top and bottom. Mist 2 or 3 times an 18 hour day for the first couple days, and you should have no problems. This works even in our low humidity winters where the humidity is rarely over 15%. Sorry for the long post, but if anything I said helps you, them my mission is accomplished

Abucks said:

Geeze they are looking good!! Way to go don't worry about the clones, they can be a bugger to get started. The only other advice I can give on the clones would be to slowly get them out from under the humidity dome. Every time I use domes I regret it. I think the high humidity slows down root formation. This might be due to the fact that the plants don't need water because of the high humidity, no need for water, no need to grow roots quickly. I have cut the dome out completely. If you cut he clones properly, and mist them a few times a day for the first two days you shouldn't have any problem with them. When I started the no dome regimen I freaked out because an hour after I cut them they were all laying on their sides, and looking like they died. After many years of playing around I figured out a few things that imo cause this. Improper cloning technique, and not misting soon enough or frequently enough. Here is my method, which is only one of thousands out there, but has got my clone success rate to 99% survival and 7 days for root formation, 10 for full blown root growth. First and most importantly, never let the clone cut end remain in air. I trim all my clones on the plant (cut off excess branches, leaves, and cut the remaining leaves half way back from their tips). Once the clone is ready to go, I use scissors and cut it a couple cm below where my final cut will be. Dip it immediately into a cup of water so there will be no chance of air embolism. Once the stem is saturated, I take a clean, sterile razor blade, and recut the stem to the desired length. Make sure to cut at a 45 degree angle or greater, and dip it imidiatly into your rooting hormone (I've had the best luck with clonex, or Olivia's clone gel) so that it seals the wounded end. You can then put it into whatever medium your using, and mist the leaves with plain water, top and bottom. Mist 2 or 3 times an 18 hour day for the first couple days, and you should have no problems. This works even in our low humidity winters where the humidity is rarely over 15%. Sorry for the long post, but if anything I said helps you, them my mission is accomplished

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Thanks for that, I might go take the dome off them actually cos that makes a lot of sense. I trimmed them all still on the plant and put them straight in water so they didn't get air bubbles in them, I pretty much did it like you said, the only thing is I had no rooting hormone so made do with honey lol, maybe that hasn't helped!

Cannacat said:

Thanks for that, I might go take the dome off them actually cos that makes a lot of sense. I trimmed them all still on the plant and put them straight in water so they didn't get air bubbles in them, I pretty much did it like you said, the only thing is I had no rooting hormone so made do with honey lol, maybe that hasn't helped!

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I don't know if it hurt or helped. I know of people using honey like molasses, it's only sugar, so I can't see it harming them. I've rooted with and without gells, and I have to give credit to the gells for at least a 25% increase in survival rate, and a good week quicker then when I don't use gells. But like I said, and you already know, this is only one of thousands of cloning techniques. It works for me, and I don't have the humidity dome hassle! I figure if the little buggers die, then they were not mentally to be always take twice as many as you intend to use, I take three times as many. It's a lot of work, but it gives you a bigger, better choice at flowering time. When you take the dome off, make sure to do it in stages. I propped my dome up so air could flow freely around the clones. Leave it like this until the dome is dry, or the clones start to droop. Try to acclimate them to ambieant humidity slowly. No shock= happy babies!

I just found a really interesting thread where this kid has experimented with loads of nutrients and compared all the results in his own study. Made for interesting reading: http://www.420magazine.com/forums/indoor-soil-cultivation/114640-top-nutrient-study-best-produces-most.html

How are the babies doing?

We've been trying to figure out a way of getting more space in the grow area cos the girls are really going for it and they're starting to look a bit squashed up although the light still seems to be penetrating ok and they get spun 25% every day or so anyway so they're not like, getting deformed or anything. We decided that when we get paid we're gonna get a few more of the storage boxes that we use to stand them on, they have holes drilled in the lid for drainage, I reckon with some careful rearranging I can fit another 4 boxes in there so we'll be able to spread them all out a little more.
I'm watering them once a day with the Canna Coco A & B at 3ml a litre, every few days they get a water only. I thought they'd be drinking loads more by now but they don't seem to be, although I do get less run off now I think. I've been looking into getting some bloom supplements too, I think I fancy the Advanced Nutrients BudBlood + Overdrive and I want to get some Botanicare Cal/Mag in too so I'm prepared for next time as I know calcium can be an issue in coco and I've just about got away with it by the skin of my teeth so far but I need some in if I'm going to keep using coco, which I am cos I like it.
The little cheeses are just busting out roots everywhere, they're out the drainage holes, out the top of the pot, they're insane, they're just desperate to be big cheeses! I'm going to have to get some bigger pots for them but they can't go into full size pots yet cos they won't fit in the veg closet which is a bit of a pisser cos they could really do with it. I don't know, maybe I could fit 2 3gallon tubs in there and then repot them again before they go into the flower room. I've ordered some 5 gallon fabric pots but they're coming from like Hong Kong or China or something, so they're gonna be a while! I'm thinking of mainlining the smallest one, that's something I fancy a go at and it seems the right kind of shape to do it with, I don't know yet. It's cool that I can play with the cheeses cos they're staying in veg for so long that it doesn't matter if I do anything that stunts their growth for a few days or whatever.
One of my clones is finally turning yellow at the tips of its leaves, I dunno if it's finally rooting or just dying but it was good to see some change!

Day 15 of flowering and I could not be more chuffed! When I think how I started, potting up an extra 5 clones cos I figured I'd kill half of them, then I look at them now, I have to say I think I'm doing ok at this growing lark

I'm running out of space so we're gonna have to expand the grow area very soon but that is literally my only issue right now so I'll take that.
So yeah, I'm pretty chuffed right now

Finally got root on two of my clones, buzzing, I didn't think one would get this far! Just potted them up in coco with Plant Magic potting granules. Hope they make it

The little cheeses look great and are really taking to their training. It's a shame they stink so badly cos I'd love a full crop of them, they're lovely to work with. Maybe one day when I've got a better setup.
And lastly, day 17 of flower and I'm chuffed to bits with them, the white widows

Lovely. Simply lovely

I've noticed some of the white widows have got yellowing on the older leaves at the bottom of the plant. Having done some reading and had one of those "solving the mysteries of the universe" moments while I was stoned last night, I've come to the conclusion that my pH is low which is preventing the plants absorbing nitrogen properly. I'm sure I read somewhere that this can happen in coco as it holds onto the potassium or something. I've already ordered some Vitalink Silicon Max and CalMag anyway so I'm hoping that the silica will raise the pH enough that the plants can get what they need again. I don't have a pH meter but I know I have soft water and apparently coco likes a lower pH so I'm hoping that once I get the N K Ca & Mg balanced back out the plants will thrive again in time for the end of next week when I'll start using the bloom boost stuff that I'll order Tuesday.
I had this moment last night while I was reading and noting stuff down where I suddenly realised what "dialled in" means lol, like it clicked what I need to do to dial in my nutrients and get it all just right for the plants and I know now exactly how to treat my next lot from start to finish so I'll do even better with them.
I'm gonna try to remember to get some pictures at lights off tonight, we forgot this morning, I want some proper pictures in decent lighting cos you can't really tell properly how they look with the distortion from the ballasts.

Still not great pics cos the battery was dead so it wouldn't use the flash after the first few... White Widows Day 18 Flower

Just given them some silica and calmag with their water at 1ml a litre and I'm hoping it'll clear up what appears to be a nitrogen deficiency. The silica seems to have a lot of benefits anyway: http://www.stonerhaven.com/topic/1214-silica/ I'm gonna use it at every watering now but I'll only use the calmag regularly on the vegging plants.
All the plants are looking really good. The gnats are doing my head in again, there aren't that many and the fly strips get them all in the end (as well as chunks of my hair every day!) but they just annoy me flying round my face as I water the plants!

Cannacat said:

Just given them some silica and calmag with their water at 1ml a litre and I'm hoping it'll clear up what appears to be a nitrogen deficiency. The silica seems to have a lot of benefits anyway: http://www.stonerhaven.com/topic/1214-silica/ I'm gonna use it at every watering now but I'll only use the calmag regularly on the vegging plants.
All the plants are looking really good. The gnats are doing my head in again, there aren't that many and the fly strips get them all in the end (as well as chunks of my hair every day!) but they just annoy me flying round my face as I water the plants!

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Looking good make sure you add your silica first I am sure you know but I always like to make sure people do give it a good mix wait 10mins then add everything else silica is a carrier and needs to be well mix to help do its job in helping the plant up take all that good food most people say you dont need to flush coco when in flower but you do as you are using the same as me canna its a very salty nutrient and flushing is highly recommended I grew in coco for 2 years before changing to 100% perlite and I always needed to flush atleast every 2 weeks in flower or I would get a lock out if you are getting a good run off around 20% each run you should be fine coco should only be used in a run to waste system and there is no need to use canna boost till day 21 of flower its just a waste of money I noticed no change in yield and only ever used it at 8ml per gallon

gnats are a pain you can use a product from your local hydro store called gnatsnixs or something its like a sand you put that over the top of the coco

Remember coco holds a lot of water and gnats like moist areas so if you really want to get rid of them

Give the plants a good water place the sand stuff in time around 1-2 inches
Then let them dry out for 4 days most of the gnats adults will get stuck to the yellow traps and the ones that don't should die in around 3-4 days with out water then its done also when you water next just go easy as that sand stuff is light and moves around when watering

DirtyNerd said:

gnats are a pain you can use a product from your local hydro store called gnatsnixs or something its like a sand you put that over the top of the coco

Remember coco holds a lot of water and gnats like moist areas so if you really want to get rid of them

Give the plants a good water place the sand stuff in time around 1-2 inches
Then let them dry out for 4 days most of the gnats adults will get stuck to the yellow traps and the ones that don't should die in around 3-4 days with out water then its done also when you water next just go easy as that sand stuff is light and moves around when watering

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DirtyNerd said:

Looking good make sure you add your silica first I am sure you know but I always like to make sure people do give it a good mix wait 10mins then add everything else silica is a carrier and needs to be well mix to help do its job in helping the plant up take all that good food most people say you dont need to flush coco when in flower but you do as you are using the same as me canna its a very salty nutrient and flushing is highly recommended I grew in coco for 2 years before changing to 100% perlite and I always needed to flush atleast every 2 weeks in flower or I would get a lock out if you are getting a good run off around 20% each run you should be fine coco should only be used in a run to waste system and there is no need to use canna boost till day 21 of flower its just a waste of money I noticed no change in yield and only ever used it at 8ml per gallon

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Thanks for the tips, much appreciated. It seems to go in phases with the gnats, I only ever see one occasionally but it annoys me to know they're there! I don't flush, as such, as my plants were really sensitive to stress early on so I've been really careful with them ever since. I do give them water only every 3 or 4 days. I wish I'd known about the silica before I mixed it, lol I've read loads about silica in the last few days and never seen it mentioned that it reacts with other nutes like that until after I'd already fed mine. It wasn't too bad, I did dilute it in a gallon of water before adding it to the nutes that were already mixed up but it still went cloudy. I'm not worried though, I swear by the old gods and the new, at least one of those plants was 1 1/2 inch taller at lights out than when I fed them this afternoon! Can't wait to see how they look at lights on, I'll have to get pics but I really wish I'd taken some today to show the difference side by side. I've got bloom nutes coming at the end of the week, I'm in no rush to start them though, I've always kept a light feeding schedule and my plants are looking fucking brilliant so I know they're not lacking anything so I won't use the bloom stuff until the plants get later into flower as I've read that they naturally start to slow growth after the 5th week and I want to encourage them to keep working it for me

Day 21 flower -
This morning's pictures, I don't know if you can tell the difference cos they've all evened out since yesterday so the freakish extra inches aren't as obvious but I'm very impressed. I've decided I'm going to twice daily feeing now as I only have a 10 litre bucket to mix and store the nutes and they're drinking it a lot faster now. I wondered whether I should make up a weaker nutrient solution if I'm feeing them 2x a day or maybe I should give a normal strength feed once a day and just water with silica at the other feed. I thought this might help avoid salt buildups and I'd rather not have to mix the silica in with the nutes cos it's a pain.

Cannacat said:

Still not great pics cos the battery was dead so it wouldn't use the flash after the first few... White Widows Day 18 FlowerView attachment 3648068 View attachment 3648061 View attachment 3648062 View attachment 3648063 View attachment 3648066 View attachment 3648067

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did you count 18 days since flipping to 12/12? or since flowers appeared?
thanks!

onkulas said:

did you count 18 days since flipping to 12/12? or since flowers appeared?
thanks!

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I'm counting the days since we flipped. Thanks for stopping by

Cannacat said:

I'm counting the days since we flipped. Thanks for stopping by

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then they are well developed
good job!!!