More About LED Lights

bartow

bartow

Well-Known Member
Sometime back I switched from T5 CFL lights to LED both in vegetative and flowering. The results in vegetative have been amazing. Although LEDs in flowering are adequate, the results turn out to be no better or even possibly worse than with the old CFL's. I am putting beautiful almost perfect looking plants into flowering but the end results after finishing flowering are about the same as before.

I have also found that CFL's do better with seedlings.

HPS lights are out of the question. There is no way to deal with the heat in the only place I can grow.

One thing that has helped is using some LEDs as side lights.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

One thought I have is to use a combination of CFLs and LEDs. Has anyone tried that.

I will say this about Chinese led lights. I don't think the wattage or any other numbers are accurate.

I just wonder if there is anything better for flowering than T5 2900k lights?

And, by better I mean within reason for a non-commercial grower.

One of the aspects of making a changing in growing is that it takes a commitment of as much as four months just to see if it works. So, I am always slow to make changes and always put a lot of thought into it.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Not seen anything negative apart from light stress when my plants are either young or too close.
But im not using cheap LEDs and I was previously using HPS.

My mate bought one recently, a cheap blurple, I told him not to, he wouldn't have it, when he saw the growth in veg he was all in my face about how good they were until he got half way through flower. Then he shut the fuck up pretty quick.

More light. Or better lights to start with. That's what you need.

Either build something or add some strips as side lights. Really no point in cfl, though it will work you will be adding more wattage and heat when you could be using a lot less with some strip LEDs. CFL are incredibly inefficient in comparison.

Don't get me wrong, I like a cfl for clones and seedlings, though I am looking to get a few strips to replace them too.

It doesn't take much to add few hundred watts of white strips these days.
 
bartow

bartow

Well-Known Member
I appreciate that. I am bombarding these plants with LED light. The temperature always stays around 70 degrees.

I will eventually will upgrade to some better lights to the degree I can determine that they are actually better.
I learned years ago that just because something is expensive doesn't automatically mean it is better.

My technical knowledge is minimal. I would not upgrade just because someone told me something would work well, not even if it was based on science and research.

When it is verified that folks are getting good results over and over, then I will change. What I am wondering now is if there is something inadequate about my lights that makes them work in vegetative but not so well in flowering. The technical jargon is over my head so I don't get bogged down in it.
 
R

Ryante55

Well-Known Member
bartow said:
I appreciate that. I am bombarding these plants with LED light. The temperature always stays around 70 degrees.

I will eventually will upgrade to some better lights to the degree I can determine that they are actually better.
I learned years ago that just because something is expensive doesn't automatically mean it is better.

My technical knowledge is minimal. I would not upgrade just because someone told me something would work well, not even if it was based on science and research.

When it is verified that folks are getting good results over and over, then I will change. What I am wondering now is if there is something inadequate about my lights that makes them work in vegetative but not so well in flowering. The technical jargon is over my head so I don't get bogged down in it.
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If you research and think about everything so much how in the world did you end up with some cheap blurple lights? And you have no clue how much power it draws? There's tons of proven led but they are expensive there's no getting around the price I would call $800 cheap to fill a 4x4 if that sounds expensive to you just go back to cfl
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
LED changes a grow completely. Your leaf temps will be much lower so you need to increase ambient temps. 70F is to dam low for one with LED 80-83F should get you where you need to be. Also the plants seem to demand more calcium. How about you show some pics so people can look for issues and help you dial it in. Idk how you expect to change a light source and intensity and expect everything else stays the same. I different that switching from dirt to hydro or vice versa
 
bartow

bartow

Well-Known Member
Ryante55 said:
If you research and think about everything so much how in the world did you end up with some cheap blurple lights? And you have no clue how much power it draws? There's tons of proven led but they are expensive there's no getting around the price I would call $800 cheap to fill a 4x4 if that sounds expensive to you just go back to cfl
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The question I have for you is, how much research did you do to determine just how bad cheap blurple lights are? The problem I have with people telling me things is determining whether or not they know what they are talking about. That is why I depend on trial and error more than anything else. As far as the cheap blurple lights, on which you are an expert I am sure, as bad as cheap blurple would indicate they do. And as for $800, it is your money and you can spend it any way you please.
 
R

Ryante55

Well-Known Member
bartow said:
The question I have for you is, how much research did you do to determine just how bad cheap blurple lights are? The problem I have with people telling me things is determining whether or not they know what they are talking about. That is why I depend on trial and error more than anything else. As far as the cheap blurple lights, on which you are an expert I am sure, as bad as cheap blurple would indicate they do. And as for $800, it is your money and you can spend it any way you please.
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About 6-7 years ago I started with g8led bought a few of those moved on to platinum led thinking it was an upgrade about 5 years ago started building cob lights then tried cmh for the last 3-4 years it's been quantum boards and similar mid power diode boards
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
bartow said:
I appreciate that. I am bombarding these plants with LED light. The temperature always stays around 70 degrees.

I will eventually will upgrade to some better lights to the degree I can determine that they are actually better.
I learned years ago that just because something is expensive doesn't automatically mean it is better.

My technical knowledge is minimal. I would not upgrade just because someone told me something would work well, not even if it was based on science and research.

When it is verified that folks are getting good results over and over, then I will change. What I am wondering now is if there is something inadequate about my lights that makes them work in vegetative but not so well in flowering. The technical jargon is over my head so I don't get bogged down in it.
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The 70 degrees is probably a major factor. Like aqua man said most run 80s, some claim really high temps but my plants are happy at 76-84 range.

I would need to know exactly what lights you have to know if they are adequate, if you link them I will look.

Technical knowledge is not really needed. Outside of some simple math like amps times volts and checking the voltage and current and wattage capabilities of drivers it really is just poking a wire in a hole and wiring a plug. With a bit of aluminium and a hacksaw or angle grinder for the frame.

Anyhow you have seen what @Way2-High has done with just some screw in household LEDs, there are a few others on here have done the same thing and get outstanding results considering the simplicity and low cost. There is one guy who has a 5x5 tent using only screw in LEDs , though his name escapes me right now.
Seems rather than adding some cfl you could just use those same bulbs.

I would look at your temps first though.
 
It's not oregano

It's not oregano

Well-Known Member
As @coreywebster said, household led bulbs can grow great plants. These 2 auto plants were grown in a 28” wide x 15” deep by 32” high stealth cabinet with just over 150w of household leds in total. Temps were low 80’s mark, running 20/4
Both were Mephisto Sour Livers autos. Plant 1 yielded 97g dry, plant 2 was 112g dry, so 209g total, just under 7.5 oz of nice dense buds.

ABBAA66C-E938-4606-8A5A-40B847C22563.jpeg C60C9DE4-30BF-492D-A1C1-6DDC56B45120.jpeg
 
M

mr. childs

Well-Known Member
It's not oregano said:
As @coreywebster said, household led bulbs can grow great plants. These 2 auto plants were grown in a 28” wide x 15” deep by 32” high stealth cabinet with just over 150w of household leds in total. Temps were low 80’s mark, running 20/4
Both were Mephisto Sour Livers autos. Plant 1 yielded 97g dry, plant 2 was 112g dry, so 209g total, just under 7.5 oz of nice dense buds.

View attachment 4346741 View attachment 4346742
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you forgot to mention that mephisto are the best autos around, sweet seeds being second...
 
bartow

bartow

Well-Known Member
coreywebster said:
The 70 degrees is probably a major factor. Like aqua man said most run 80s, some claim really high temps but my plants are happy at 76-84 range.

I would need to know exactly what lights you have to know if they are adequate, if you link them I will look.

Technical knowledge is not really needed. Outside of some simple math like amps times volts and checking the voltage and current and wattage capabilities of drivers it really is just poking a wire in a hole and wiring a plug. With a bit of aluminium and a hacksaw or angle grinder for the frame.

Anyhow you have seen what @Way2-High has done with just some screw in household LEDs, there are a few others on here have done the same thing and get outstanding results considering the simplicity and low cost. There is one guy who has a 5x5 tent using only screw in LEDs , though his name escapes me right now.
Seems rather than adding some cfl you could just use those same bulbs.

I would look at your temps first though.
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What I would like to figure out first is why lights which do a tremendous job in vegetative do not do a tremendous job in flowering? If there is a reason for that, not just with my lights but with lights in general, I would like to have input on that.

There is a good reason why I don't give a lot of specifics. That is to avoid food fights and dealing with people who are convinced that cheap Chinese blurples are always bad and that I need to spend a fortune to get something better. I may replace the lights but it won't be today.

Intuition says that lights that work in vegetative should work as well in flowering. Intuition also says if 70 degrees is great in vegetative it should be good in flowering also. I am guessing that lights are not the problem. If they are then I will look at replacing my lights.

As a general question, why would a set of lights work in one tent but not the other? If there isn't an answer then I will drop it. The lights do work well enough but the CFLs they replaced did also.

I need to find out
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Way2-High said:
Veg likes more blue in the spectrum and flower likes more red it’s just like how sun in the fall and sun in the spring are a bit different spectrum.
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^^^ 4000-5000K Veg 3000K flower. If i were to choose 1 it would be 3000k you may get a little more stretch in veg but there are ways to compensate.
bartow said:
Intuition says that lights that work in vegetative should work as well in flowering. Intuition also says if 70 degrees is great in vegetative it should be good in flowering also. I am guessing that lights are not the problem. If they are then I will look at replacing my lights.
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Plant needs change from veg to flower and in veg plants are a lot more forgiving.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
bartow said:
What I would like to figure out first is why lights which do a tremendous job in vegetative do not do a tremendous job in flowering? If there is a reason for that, not just with my lights but with lights in general, I would like to have input on that.

There is a good reason why I don't give a lot of specifics. That is to avoid food fights and dealing with people who are convinced that cheap Chinese blurples are always bad and that I need to spend a fortune to get something better. I may replace the lights but it won't be today.

Intuition says that lights that work in vegetative should work as well in flowering. Intuition also says if 70 degrees is great in vegetative it should be good in flowering also. I am guessing that lights are not the problem. If they are then I will look at replacing my lights.

As a general question, why would a set of lights work in one tent but not the other? If there isn't an answer then I will drop it. The lights do work well enough but the CFLs they replaced did also.

I need to find out
Click to expand...
Plants can veg fine on very little light and lower red balanced spectrum.
They veg even faster with more light.
But you need a lot more light to flower.
Then there is co2, again when in flower your kicking plants into high gear and they need more co2 and light for photosynthesis and with that also comes higher temps. The higher the air temp the greater the metabolic rate and that also requires more light and co2.
Its a triangle that all needs to be balanced to get the most out of those plants, when air temps are lower the whole process is reduced, when light isn't enough to keep up then bud density suffers, when co2 isn't enough then growth is slowed due to the inability to fix carbon and glucose production (plant food) is reduced

In short veg is 2nd gear, flowering is 5th gear.
 
GBAUTO

GBAUTO

Well-Known Member
bartow's question about why one type of lamp works fine for veg but maybe not so much in flower is valid. Folks posted up plenty f examples growing flower using everything from incandescent to plasma discharge-they can all do it but the yield will be the difference. The plant is primarily concerned about the quantity of usable light energy it can collect over the day so it helps if you can determine how 'MUCH' light a fixture can produce. This where comparing fixture types is challenging-efficiency at converting watts of electricity into photons on light varies GREATLY so having some idea of the lamps efficacy at converting watts into photons is needed. This the one area of lighting were your research will be rewarded-it will make thing clear.
 
R

Ryante55

Well-Known Member
GBAUTO said:
bartow's question about why one type of lamp works fine for veg but maybe not so much in flower is valid. Folks posted up plenty f examples growing flower using everything from incandescent to plasma discharge-they can all do it but the yield will be the difference. The plant is primarily concerned about the quantity of usable light energy it can collect over the day so it helps if you can determine how 'MUCH' light a fixture can produce. This where comparing fixture types is challenging-efficiency at converting watts of electricity into photons on light varies GREATLY so having some idea of the lamps efficacy at converting watts into photons is needed. This the one area of lighting were your research will be rewarded-it will make thing clear.
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What does "works fine for veg" really mean? Does it mean the plant isn't dead? Maybe with more light it would grow twice as fast. I always hear people say blurple works great for veg then they show a tiny little plant that's a month old I never see anyone doing a veg side by side
 
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