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miracles

Discussion in 'Spirituality & Sexuality & Philosophy' started by thagooroo, Nov 22, 2012.

  1.  
    thagooroo

    thagooroo Member

    Since so many seem to struggle with believing miracles with there eyes why does anyone believe what they see in everyday life with there eyes what makes it real what makes what you seeing someone eating dinner more believable than someone who can fly or heal people with thoughts if you see both with the same set of eyes why discount a special thing to see
  2.  
    Heisenberg

    Heisenberg The Glacier

    While I am not sure we should completely discount what we see, I think it is proper to have doubt. The more extraordinary the sight, the more justified the doubt. Seeing someone eat dinner is not out of the ordinary, seeing someone fly is life changing. Healings and levitation can be faked, and when it comes to something as important as that, I think we need to be sure what we are seeing is real before we give it credit.
  3.  
    tyler.durden

    tyler.durden Well-Known Member

    Whenever something seems to defy the known laws of physics, such as unaided flight or healing with thought alone, we must be skeptical. These phenomena would be entirely new forces, and if verified they would add to our view of reality and would be very exciting! Unfortunately, each and every time without exception such a claim has been investigated properly, it has shown to be a fraud. Eating dinner is something each of us do and does not violate known physical laws, so little to no skepticism is necessary...
  4.  
    mindphuk

    mindphuk Well-Known Member

    Your eyes cannot be trusted.

    [video=youtube;vhoSqSHMIAc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhoSqSHMIAc[/video]

    [​IMG]
  5.  
    eye exaggerate

    eye exaggerate Well-Known Member

    ...I think what happens here is that those 'special' things aren't meant for display. They are very personal and from deep within. If a person takes an egoic stance, saying "look what IIIIII can do", it's not real. At that point it becomes illusion, like those in mp's images.
  6.  
    thagooroo

    thagooroo Member

    I understand why these so called miracles are looked at with doubt but what is it that you or whoever reads this knows that gives reason to not except what is seen what do you understand about how our minds work what is known to denie what is possible not what we think or our opinions on it and for those videos looked cool but not what I would call a miracle by any stretch remote healing is a miracle intention that affects matter is kinda a miracle I guess I would really like to understand what gives doubt on what is possible if you don't have experiences or experiments
  7.  
    thagooroo

    thagooroo Member

    What are the laws of physics ,meta and quantum I'm courious since we only know and are aware of I think Neil degrassi tyson head astrophysic at NASA said we know 4% of what makes up the universe and planets stars people I'm still waiting for physics to answer that other 96% of what makes up the universe please explain what you know
  8.  
    tyler.durden

    tyler.durden Well-Known Member

    Well, I know that what we see/experience in the cosmos is a small fraction of what makes up the majority of our universe, which is dark energy and dark matter. These things are mysterious and we cannot detect them directly (hence the term 'dark'), but they are anolgous to black holes in the way that we cannot see black holes but can detect them indirectly by witnessing their effects on matter and energy. It will be exciting to watch science explore and attempt to explain these dark forces, but your subject was why are we more likely to believe things that are explained by the known physical laws than miracles that defy them. I don't see a connection between dark energy/matter and so called miracles that take place on our planet. Labeing something a 'miracle' or 'magic' doesn't explain anything, and does more to stop a conversation than encourage exploration of the subject...
  9.  
    thagooroo

    thagooroo Member

    I understand what you said but it is filled with very little about physics and there laws and how they influence what you know also I'm not looking for others to help me understand what I believe I'm interested in what others know that leads them to what they believe
  10.  
    kpmarine

    kpmarine Well-Known Member

    That's kind of off topic. You asked why people don't believe in miracles. Not for a breakdown of physics. You don't need to know much of anything to realize that if you jump off a cliff, you will fall to the ground. If you see someone do the opposite of that, a.k.a. Flying, then that bears scrutiny, not instant acceptance. I've seen an illusionist fly and walk on water. Just makes him good at illusions, not a miracle worker. That doesn't require a deep knowledge of physics really.
  11.  
    mindphuk

    mindphuk Well-Known Member

    The video was not posted to present a miracle. I specifically said that our eyes can't be trusted. What we think we are seeing is not reality but our brain's interpretation of the signals received from our eyes, and these are based on models that our brains have developed beginning in our early childhood.

    I have done magic for over 30 years. There are countless ways to make it appear someone is floating or flying as well as many other purported miracles. I have never heard of a miracle that has been verified to actually be something that has broken the laws of physics. Most of the 'miracles' I have heard are personal experiences of defying the odds, i.e. a cancer goes into remission after someone prays for them, or something akin to, "I survived after having 8 bullets pumped through me."
    If you know of an actual miracle, I would be interested in hearing about it.
  12.  
    mindphuk

    mindphuk Well-Known Member

    Sounds more like a convenient excuse to explain away why nothing can ever be done under controlled conditions. If someone could actually do something miraculous, it would not have to be boastful or egocentric. In fact, it would benefit all of humanity, very selfless by showing us where and how our physics is wrong.
    kpmarine likes this.
  13.  
    eye exaggerate

    eye exaggerate Well-Known Member

    ...monad, innermost, etc. Nothing's going to change the world beside you changing your own. Humanity wants a quick fix, science can provide that. I am certainly not trying to cheapen the value of science. I think that's been done already :)
  14.  
    cannabineer

    cannabineer Ursus marijanus

    We could have our conversation again about the diff between magic and ... well, magic.
    Or not. ;) cn
  15.  
    tyler.durden

    tyler.durden Well-Known Member

    That's cool, but that wasn't what your OP was about. As far as I've seen, people who start threads wondering about others views, beliefs, and knowledge usually offer theirs first if only as a matter of forum etiquette. IOW, why would others share their personal stuff if the OP isn't willing to share theirs? If you have any specific questions about any physical laws you are in luck, for in this subforum, and in the Science & Technology subforum, you will find very learned folks that are generous enough to share their substantial knowledge with you. Welcome, friend...
  16.  
    eye exaggerate

    eye exaggerate Well-Known Member

    ...maybe it happened already; or it did in another universe when it didn't really happen, then :eyesmoke:

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