Michigan and 29 other states attempt sucession from the union

Not likely to happen.

Do you think after this try the federal government will be more willing to listen to the states at least?

What are they not listening to the states on? it's not a long list mmj, marriage equality etc..
But looking at those being the few issues between the states and Feds from a global perspective taking the entire current relationship between the states and Feds its 98% good. It's just those fringe issues that sit within the small percentage of the relationship that has problems. That's how democracy works though it's a slow moving beast but if something really has a purpose only time and education will allow it to grow and gain momentum it just takes time. Social movements don't happen overnight or even in decades it happens on a much broader scale. Do you really think Obama would have to treat marijuana this way if the conservative machine wasn't sitting waiting for any excuse to try to hurt any liberal or independent politicians career when they take "extreme" positions according to the fear mongering talking heads. When you have an entire federal government to try to run and get everyone to play nice the last thing you need to do is give the opposition who already takes pride in stalling government because they dislike the president and use any excuse to try to rile up support for themselves by using fear to scare people.


The issue is we have a conservitive congress/ infastructure who emphasizes states rights but not when it comes to social issues that they deem not appropriate because of their moral obligations.

Thanks for the view and info on that question. You make good points!

WyoGrow said:

These are petitions started by average joe types.... not by representatives of the states mentioned. This happens all the time but is getting massive exposure this time around. Personally I think even if it were a serious push by the states that it's a chicken shit move. Dig in your damned heels and fight to win your country back. Don't just give up and hand it over to them. Many are pissed that less than 1/10th of the nation geographically is dictating what the other 90% has to do. People from rural areas don't think along the same lines as those from the major urban population areas that have almost all the influence on the voting process. Most people in cities don't hunt, so they only associate guns with crime and violence. So they have no issue with the current administrations aims at disarming the entire population. Welfare in rural areas in a big part is called helping your neighbors out as well as the rural populations tend to be more active church goers and rural area churches do a lot withing their communities for lower income and poverty level families. Where as in the big cities, where 90% of people don't even know their neighbors nor want to could give a shit less if they are starving. The cost of living is also higher in urban areas where the population mass overwhelms the available job and housing market. People from the city could learn a lesson or two from us rural types. On the flip side..... rural America is still rife with racism, sexism and rampant homophobia.... so the majority of us could learn a lesson in tolerance and a little forward thinking.

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If elections in this country were decided by popular vote, conservatives would be up shit creek. The electoral college vastly favors the less densely populated states, and gives each vote in those rural areas more weight. Otherwise, New York and California would decide the potus every 4 years. Also, nobody is coming to take your guns. As Thatguy already pointed out, that 's a fallacy perpetuated by the NRA to keep it's membership large, and frightened. It's ridiculous.

WyoGrow said:

Get up on your current events then. Obama just endorsed a UN moratorium on firearms that will directly affect the import of domestic brand legal firearms (for now at least) manufactured overseas as well as ammunition. While not directly attacking US gun rights this will drastically effect prices on legal weapons in the US. Going door to door and confiscating them is next to impossible. But making them such a bitch or cost prohibitive to buy that most wont bother isn't. This is a two fold tactic he can play off of. Because most gun owning Americans will take this as an infringement on their constitutionally protected rights and given stricter regulation and prices will keep purchasing firearms "under the counter".... garage sales, classified adds.... ect. These too are way to purchase guns that is firmly in the crosshairs of the Obama administration. As soon as the majority of people give up trying to jump through hoops to own a gun and stop buying this off the record means to acquire guns will be all the easier to classify as completely illegal.

Gun laws currently being "looser" has not a damned thing to do with Obama. He has made several attempts to impose extraneous restrictions on gun ownership and has been flatly shot down in Congress. Guns aren't the battle he choosing to fight right now. But as soon as he is done ramroding his tax reforms and Obamacare through Congress with the backing of a noe Democratic majority senate and a Democratic Supreme Court. You can bet it gets close to making it on his "shit I need to get done" list.

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"Democratic Supreme Court"?? There is no such thing. Supreme Court justices do not have a political affiliation. Perhaps you meant "liberal Supreme Court", and it that case you would be wrong as well. Ask any political scholar, and they will tell you that the makeup of this current Supreme Court leans towards the conservative side with Chief Justice Roberts (George W Bush appointee), Antonin Scalia (Reagan appointee), Clarence Thomas (Bush 1 appointee), Samuel Alito (George W Bush appointee), and Anthony Kennedy (Reagan appointee). 5 of the 9 justices were nominated by Republican Presidents.

No reason why people need guns, We are no longer in the wild west, ban them all! Don't give me for personal protection bullshit, there are about 1000x more deaths from assholes with guns and gang members killing innocent people then there are from someone defending themselves with a gun.

linky said:

No reason why people need guns, We are no Slonger in the wild west, ban them all! Don't give me for personal protection bullshit, there are about 1000x more deaths from assholes with guns and gang members killing innocent people then there are from someone defending themselves with a gun.

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Speak for yourself asshole. A gun is a tool I use to provide for my family. Come try to take mine and Ill put one between your eyes...no joke.

Be thankful Im a mod and have to be somewhat nice otherwise Id tell you what I really think about your totally fucking ignorant comment.

linky said:

No reason why people need guns, We are no longer in the wild west, ban them all! Don't give me for personal protection bullshit, there are about 1000x more deaths from assholes with guns and gang members killing innocent people then there are from someone defending themselves with a gun.

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A ban/prohibition simply removes guns from law abiding citizens not criminals. Please look into the recent Washington DC and Chicago gun ban histories and whom that actually benefited and injured ...

linky said:

No reason why people need guns, We are no longer in the wild west, ban them all! Don't give me for personal protection bullshit, there are about 1000x more deaths from assholes with guns and gang members killing innocent people then there are from someone defending themselves with a gun.

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That takes it too far. There are two legitimate uses for guns, imo: 1) Hunting 2) Protecting your castle and your family. I have no issue with people owning guns for the purposes of providing for your family via hunting, and protecting your family and your belongings. If someone tries to gain entry in to your house without your permission, then all bets are off and if that person gets injured or killed then so be it. They shouldn't be breaking in to other peoples homes. BUT, I will never understand the argument that supports a bunch of ass-hats running around with guns strapped to their hip. Bars, sporting venues, schools, churches, malls, etc are no place for people to be packing heat and playing Barney-Bad-Ass. That's where the rub is for me.

linky said:

No reason why people need guns, We are no longer in the wild west, ban them all! Don't give me for personal protection bullshit, there are about 1000x more deaths from assholes with guns and gang members killing innocent people then there are from someone defending themselves with a gun.

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Well we have hunting and we have scum. We need a gun to kill a deer or rabbit. We need a gun to shoot buckshot in the gut of someone on the porch that means to do harm.

We do not need a gun to rob a liquer store. We do not need it to get free crack and no we do not need a gun to silence views. Have you seen the world? The wild west is the past we have the wild world taking place.

TheMan13 said:

A ban/prohibition simply removes guns from law abiding citizens not criminals. Please look into the recent Washington DC and Chicago gun ban histories and whom that actually benefited and injured ...

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I agree completely, we need a government to get their heads out of their asses except for when it helps or profits themselves and laws and courts that will actually get the real scum off the street and to stop wasting tax payers money on putting people away for drugs... of any kind.

stumpjumper said:

Speak for yourself asshole. A gun is a tool I use to provide for my family. Come try to take mine and Ill put one between your eyes...no joke.

Be thankful Im a mod and have to be somewhat nice otherwise Id tell you what I really think about your totally fucking ignorant comment.

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You make the perfect moderator.. nice response to someone's opinion. You sound like the ignorant one to me with that attitude. You do not have to like my views.. just as I don't agree with yours.. but I am not threatening to put a bullet between your eyes for a difference of opinion.

st0wandgrow said:

That takes it too far. There are two legitimate uses for guns, imo: 1) Hunting 2) Protecting your castle and your family. I have no issue with people owning guns for the purposes of providing for your family via hunting, and protecting your family and your belongings. If someone tries to gain entry in to your house without your permission, then all bets are off and if that person gets injured or killed then so be it. They shouldn't be breaking in to other peoples homes. BUT, I will never understand the argument that supports a bunch of ass-hats running around with guns strapped to their hip. Bars, sporting venues, schools, churches, malls, etc are no place for people to be packing heat and playing Barney-Bad-Ass. That's where the rub is for me.

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I agree with this as well, the problem is with millions of guns all over the land and a government doing a shitty job of controlling them and in reality no real need this day in age except for a tiny percent, like less than 1% who really 'need' a gun to live, something extreme needs to take place to control it, either a huge effective effort to get them out of the hands of the criminal or get rid of them all together.

I was driving in GR last week, corner of 44th and kzoo.. a group of people were arguing on the sidewalk.. a guy pulls out a gun.. everyone runs away yelling and shit... a cop is literally sitting 20 FEET from the guy in the parking lot there and just stares and does NOTHING.. the guy with the gun jumps into the car behind me and speeds off like hell around me and turns down 44th... I called 911 and reported it.. even got the license plate of the car.. told them a cop was sitting right there and he did nothing.. they said they would call me back if they needed me as a witness or what not. This was at like 5-6pm. Crazy shit. Every day you are reading someone was shot in gr.. seems to be getting worse and worse also.

hic said:

Well we have hunting and we have scum. We need a gun to kill a deer or rabbit. We need a gun to shoot buckshot in the gut of someone on the porch that means to do harm.

We do not need a gun to rob a liquer store. We do not need it to get free crack and no we do not need a gun to silence views. Have you seen the world? The wild west is the past we have the wild world taking place.

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I agree with all you say except the wild world.. most of the world is pretty civilized at this point and that is why we have a military and a government, the average joe sitting at home or the gang banger isn't going to help with the wild world by having guns. Get rid of the extreme religious fanatics and most of wars will go away.

double post

linky said:

You make the perfect moderator.. nice response to someone's opinion. You sound like the ignorant one to me with that attitude. You do not have to like my views.. just as I don't agree with yours.. but I am not threatening to put a bullet between your eyes for a difference of opinion.

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you called me an asshole because I am a gun owner.. And yes if you came for my guns I would shoot you..

st0wandgrow said:

"Democratic Supreme Court"?? There is no such thing. Supreme Court justices do not have a political affiliation. Perhaps you meant "liberal Supreme Court", and it that case you would be wrong as well. Ask any political scholar, and they will tell you that the makeup of this current Supreme Court leans towards the conservative side with Chief Justice Roberts (George W Bush appointee), Antonin Scalia (Reagan appointee), Clarence Thomas (Bush 1 appointee), Samuel Alito (George W Bush appointee), and Anthony Kennedy (Reagan appointee). 5 of the 9 justices were nominated by Republican Presidents.

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There are very good odds that this current president will be appointing the next two Chief Justices, if not 4. And yes, I mean to say Democratically favorable. If you are going to lable most all Democrats as liberals. Scalia and Kennedy, who are 70 & 76, are the only two "conservatives" on the panel as it is. So Republican appointed or not the majority of the Supreme Court is slanted in favor of the "liberal" end of the spectrum. 2 Obama nominees may not slant the panel totally in the favor of his agenda. But 3 will definitely skew the panel and 4 appointments..... well you have just basically given the Obama administration a punch pass on all Obama originated legislation. It's doesn't make me comfortable at all. AS for your question as to how his backing of the UN mandate can raise the cost of firearms. Less supply + same demand = high prices. Also, you example of "Islamic Extremists" buying guns in the states to ship back overseas is absurd. They caught a handful of domestic wingnuts attempting to ship guns to their "heroes". I've done two tours in Afghanistan and 3 tours in Iraq. Trust me, they can get far more reliable weapons cheaper right in their own countries. They don't need to nor do they buy weapons in the states to ship back to the middle east. Almost 95% of the weapons I encountered overseas originated from Russia and some from China.... not one American manufactured weapon. All the reason you need to be highly alarmed at President Obama having a favorable Senate and Supreme Court are laid out in his own book. Or get your hands on some of his published papers from college. Being in favor of stripping the rights of ownership of property, confiscating inheritance, abolishing the private agricultural industry in favor of government owned "communal farms" and the government take over of the private business sector are not personal convictions and belief I want in the leader of my free, for now, country.

Sorry, I had that post broken out into paragraphs. But the site had other ideas.....

stumpjumper said:

you called me an asshole because I am a gun owner.. And yes if you came for my guns I would shoot you..

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I did not call you an asshole, I called irresponsible gun owners and criminals an asshole for using guns in a manner to hurt and kill innocent people. Now that I understand your mentality, lack of self control and the extreme actions you would be willing to take over a gun I would say we have completely different views on probably most things in this world.