Magnetic vs Digital Ballasts.
- Thread starter Carthoris
- Start date
If I were going to buy a digital ballast, I would buy a Lumatek. I have no doubt of that - but I got a 600w HPS ballast for 90 dollars. To buy a Lumatek from HTG, it would cost me 250 dollars + shipping (probably 275), I could of gotten one off ebay used to from a less reputable vendor for 175 probably, maybe less. However, you never know which ones malfunctioned, had RF shielding issues, ect ect. Some are purple, some are blue, dimmable, ect ect. I see a lot of the sub 200 dollar ones are older models - weren't they less reliable?
Paying 150 dollars to save a couple dollars a month wouldn't make sense to me.
Also,
600w Magnetic ballast replacement after warranty expires - $75
600w Digital ballast replacement after warranty expires- $200
Spending the extra on a digital ballast at this time seems like a lackluster investment that is going to net me very little gains overall. Im only running a few degrees over ambient temperature in my grow. I'm not saying that digital ballasts don't perform as well or better if you get a good quality one, but the value(cost vs benefits) doesn't support the cost of a digital to me. Maybe in 3-5 years the price will be right, but by then something new will probably be out, like plasma lights or LEDs(ones that actually work).
Paying 150 dollars to save a couple dollars a month wouldn't make sense to me.
Also,
600w Magnetic ballast replacement after warranty expires - $75
600w Digital ballast replacement after warranty expires- $200
Spending the extra on a digital ballast at this time seems like a lackluster investment that is going to net me very little gains overall. Im only running a few degrees over ambient temperature in my grow. I'm not saying that digital ballasts don't perform as well or better if you get a good quality one, but the value(cost vs benefits) doesn't support the cost of a digital to me. Maybe in 3-5 years the price will be right, but by then something new will probably be out, like plasma lights or LEDs(ones that actually work).
Yep and I agree totally. Bang for the buck its magnetic all the way. Im just saying that my lumateks have been top notch performers. Some have 25,000+ hours of use on them. They do have another advantage too, they are MUCH lighter and much easier to setup on a board on the wall so you don't have any cords of any kind near the plants or the floor. They hold their power output for the life of them, the magnetic ones lose some efficiency over time.They don't make any noise either. The main benefit is the extra light 5% more efficient = 5% more product=about an extra 5 grams per light(low estimate) = about an extra $75 per light. So they actually pay for themselves quite quickly. BUT to get setup on a budget mags are the way to go. You can have great buds without spending much money at all if you just have the knowledge.
Spanishfly
Well-Known Member
Agree totally with that. The very best light of all is completely free, for starters.
dbkick
Well-Known Member
I've been running a 1000 watt digital welthink, I bought it new from a dude that had like 16 of them running and never had a problem, the specs say 20-30 percent less power and also 20-30 precent more lumens produced, the thing runs cool as can be. To each his own but make mine digital.
dbkick, those power and lumens ratings are pretty much made up. Like saying a Prius gets 55 mpg, well, it does, driving 100 miles on cruise control with the ac off, and the windows up. It really gets about 40 mpg. The issue with those numbers are how are they calculating them? Im guessing that they are doing two things.
1) Turning a magnetic on, calculating the spike of startup, running it for an hour then shutting it off. How many of us run out light for an hour at a time?
2) Turning the magnetic on, then checking the lumen output in a way that tilts the balance towards the digital. Either by using it for a short amount of time or checking it every 5 minutes and then taking a median as the number.
I'm not saying digital isn't better if you get a reliable one. I'm saying that the differences are minor at best. If they were the same price, and I felt as comfortable with a digital as a magnetic, Id have no worries. I don't feel comfortable buying something that I don't perceive as being reliable for more money especially when the light output isn't much different.
Anyone here have a lumen reader and a kill-a-watt that can tell me how much electricity their 600w (digital or magnetic) is using?
1) Turning a magnetic on, calculating the spike of startup, running it for an hour then shutting it off. How many of us run out light for an hour at a time?
2) Turning the magnetic on, then checking the lumen output in a way that tilts the balance towards the digital. Either by using it for a short amount of time or checking it every 5 minutes and then taking a median as the number.
I'm not saying digital isn't better if you get a reliable one. I'm saying that the differences are minor at best. If they were the same price, and I felt as comfortable with a digital as a magnetic, Id have no worries. I don't feel comfortable buying something that I don't perceive as being reliable for more money especially when the light output isn't much different.
Anyone here have a lumen reader and a kill-a-watt that can tell me how much electricity their 600w (digital or magnetic) is using?
bajafox
Well-Known Member
Nice edit, but you were the one who got bent out of shape (look 2 posts down and you were quoted with your original message.) You need to read more before you go around calling people fools.
Now I see why you keep using price as part of your argument, you never even bothered to look around. If I were expecting to pay $275 for a Lumatek 600w digital ballast, I would have your mind set too. But they are NOT anywhere near $300. I paid $220 out the door for mine at my local shop even though I could have gotten it for $20 less at a shop 15 miles away. The reason I didn't bother doing the drive was because I had been there before and I stood around like a moron for 20 minutes before I was finally attended. I paid the extra money to get good quality service, have my questions answered and know that if I ever have a problem with my purchase that I have a place to go to that is less than 5 miles away for me to get fixed.
Here you go, $205 shipped to me in California if I really wanted to save the extra $: http://www.greners.com/ballasts/brand/lumatek/lumatek-electronic-ballast-hps-mh-600w-120v-240v-dimmable.html
crud
Member
ordered 2 1000w and 1 400w digital greenhouse systems from htgsupply a while ago and have not had issues at all with heat, noise or the aesthetic beauty of the ballasts.
during the mondo heat and humidity wave we had a few weeks ago, the ability to dim the bulbs saved my ass from the uncontrollable heat/hum swings of day/night. they spark faster too.
even if they did bust down and shit out, htg would bend over backwards to make it right like they have always done for me in the past.
during the mondo heat and humidity wave we had a few weeks ago, the ability to dim the bulbs saved my ass from the uncontrollable heat/hum swings of day/night. they spark faster too.
even if they did bust down and shit out, htg would bend over backwards to make it right like they have always done for me in the past.
Baja, I definitely did price them. I was ready to buy one, I dont mind paying the premium for good service. I am using price as part of my argument, yes. I realize I can get one from ebay for 200 dollars shipped to my door, my HPS was 90 shipped to the door, for 75 I could of made my own ballast. If you look at the other posts besides that one, you will notice that I keep saying 100 dollars more and that they cost 200. If I were going to buy a digital, Id get it at HTGsupply though, because I would of gotten a new reflector with it and you can do a combo deal there to save money on a reflector. I feel more comfortable shopping with HTG because I know they will back their products.
I dont see a 100 dollars of extra value in the digital ballasts. Spend 100 dollars extra for a small benefit or use the 100 dollars to buy something important to your grow. For the new grower who doesn't have thousands to spend (out of 100 growers, how many spend over 500 on first grow?) Wouldn't that 100 dollars buy you something more important? Like carbon filters or exhaust fans. How many people do you see starting with HPS and no carbon filter. This post wasn't directed at growers who have all the money in the world to spend on equipment, it was for the grower wanted to know what the best value is. If you have hundreds of extra dollars to spend on every item, go for it, if you want value, go Magnetic. Like I said before, its like buying a Prius vs a Yaris because of fuel efficiency to save money. You wont save money with a prius, but if driving it makes you happy, go for it. There is no value buying it, however.
Do any of you build your own computers? Would you spend double the money for a 5% increase in power?
I have never worried about HTG's customer service. If you find a cheaper price somewhere for the same item, they will match it for you, though really I have never had to order something they were very far off from. I don't just grow, and the nearest Hydro shop is 50 miles away. I trust HTG to be there for me in a pinch if I need them. Thats a feeling I rarely get at any business.
Its more about having to be down for 3 days or a week with reliability. Saying its under warranty is like saying you don't care if your car breaks down on you cause its under warranty. You want to go a week without a light and have your light cycle interrupted because your ballast went down?
Crud, you could of saved 200 or more going magnetic - couldn't you of cured your heat issues with 200 dollars? If I was going to have a grow not covered by my house air conditioning I would probably buy a 100 dollar walmart air conditioner w/ digital thermostat and run it when the temps got out of control. As it is, my grow is in my bedroom, and I like it cold when I sleep, so I put a room AC to keep it 70 anyway. With a 600 in the closet my grow only goes to mid 70s at the top of the room, and 73 or so towards the bottom. Im running 5-6 degrees over ambient. If my grow was outside, Id probably be running 5-6 degrees over ambient there too. Its 90 degrees here, and I doubt Id be able to grow in the summer without AC.
Db, that sounds like a good deal. What brand is it?
I dont see a 100 dollars of extra value in the digital ballasts. Spend 100 dollars extra for a small benefit or use the 100 dollars to buy something important to your grow. For the new grower who doesn't have thousands to spend (out of 100 growers, how many spend over 500 on first grow?) Wouldn't that 100 dollars buy you something more important? Like carbon filters or exhaust fans. How many people do you see starting with HPS and no carbon filter. This post wasn't directed at growers who have all the money in the world to spend on equipment, it was for the grower wanted to know what the best value is. If you have hundreds of extra dollars to spend on every item, go for it, if you want value, go Magnetic. Like I said before, its like buying a Prius vs a Yaris because of fuel efficiency to save money. You wont save money with a prius, but if driving it makes you happy, go for it. There is no value buying it, however.
Do any of you build your own computers? Would you spend double the money for a 5% increase in power?
I have never worried about HTG's customer service. If you find a cheaper price somewhere for the same item, they will match it for you, though really I have never had to order something they were very far off from. I don't just grow, and the nearest Hydro shop is 50 miles away. I trust HTG to be there for me in a pinch if I need them. Thats a feeling I rarely get at any business.
Its more about having to be down for 3 days or a week with reliability. Saying its under warranty is like saying you don't care if your car breaks down on you cause its under warranty. You want to go a week without a light and have your light cycle interrupted because your ballast went down?
Crud, you could of saved 200 or more going magnetic - couldn't you of cured your heat issues with 200 dollars? If I was going to have a grow not covered by my house air conditioning I would probably buy a 100 dollar walmart air conditioner w/ digital thermostat and run it when the temps got out of control. As it is, my grow is in my bedroom, and I like it cold when I sleep, so I put a room AC to keep it 70 anyway. With a 600 in the closet my grow only goes to mid 70s at the top of the room, and 73 or so towards the bottom. Im running 5-6 degrees over ambient. If my grow was outside, Id probably be running 5-6 degrees over ambient there too. Its 90 degrees here, and I doubt Id be able to grow in the summer without AC.
Db, that sounds like a good deal. What brand is it?
powerslide
Well-Known Member
you keep trying to justify not spending the extra money on a digital by spending it elsewhere... some people need the stealth of the digitals. they produce less heat and they are quiet. If i had a magnetic one i would have to buy an exhaust fan as well. exhaust fans make a lot of noise, and draw attention. i think this needs to be taken into account as well. i also had a friend who had 3 magnatic ballast catch fire....i would say this is from the high amounts of heat they produce. he's got like 8-10 1000w lights going.
bajafox
Well-Known Member
I was thinking the exact same thing as powerslide, it seems like you are trying really hard to justify the amount of money you saved.
You've stated everywhere between $90 to $150 for a magnetic ballast (this is for a 400w), and for a digital ballast you've been around $200 and even $300 in one post (see below). I don't understand what the big deal is between $150 magnetic ballast and a $205 Lumatek Digital w/shipping from greners.com, if you want to save $55 more power to you. I intend to use any income from my extra harvest right back into my grow anyway, saving a few dollars isn't really any of my concern.
I have had all 3 (400w magnetic, 600w magnetic and now 600w digital) in the EXACT same set up in the exact same environment over the last 4 months, there is absolutely no comparison, the Lumatek Digital ballast beats both my old HydroFarm magnetic ballast any minute of the day, usually between 7am and 7pm during my 12 hour daylight period.
I did read every post. The fact is you have way too many variables to really have an accurate answer. You started out by contemplating on purchasing a 600w digital ballast vs. a magnetic ballast and then conducted an experiment using 400w.
You've stated everywhere between $90 to $150 for a magnetic ballast (this is for a 400w), and for a digital ballast you've been around $200 and even $300 in one post (see below). I don't understand what the big deal is between $150 magnetic ballast and a $205 Lumatek Digital w/shipping from greners.com, if you want to save $55 more power to you. I intend to use any income from my extra harvest right back into my grow anyway, saving a few dollars isn't really any of my concern.
You are not going to convince me that a magnetic is better than a digital ballast. I have had both the 400w magnetic and 600w magnetic in my exact same setup. I paid nothing for the 400w hps with hood and bulb because it was donated by a friend and I paid less than $100 for the 600w hps with bulb + hood on craigslist from a guy who had to fire sell because he was leaving the state.
I have had all 3 (400w magnetic, 600w magnetic and now 600w digital) in the EXACT same set up in the exact same environment over the last 4 months, there is absolutely no comparison, the Lumatek Digital ballast beats both my old HydroFarm magnetic ballast any minute of the day, usually between 7am and 7pm during my 12 hour daylight period.
Spanishfly
Well-Known Member
And again.....
machnak
Well-Known Member
I don't think an edit that came three minutes after the post would make much a difference. Especially when the post right after that was an hour and forty-one minutes later.
I'm currently running Magnetic and have no true sense of a difference between digital and magnetic. I can say with fact that my magnetic runs HOT and the thing is a big box. So just the size comparison alone sells me...along with the ability to change between 400W / 600W/ 1000W & super lumens! Again, I'm sold.
At the end of the day, as long as it turns my (your) light on I'd be happy.
Lumatek will be my source as soon as funds can provide it.
I'm currently running Magnetic and have no true sense of a difference between digital and magnetic. I can say with fact that my magnetic runs HOT and the thing is a big box. So just the size comparison alone sells me...along with the ability to change between 400W / 600W/ 1000W & super lumens! Again, I'm sold.
At the end of the day, as long as it turns my (your) light on I'd be happy.
Lumatek will be my source as soon as funds can provide it.
cowboylogic
Well-Known Member
8 pages of the same, same. Justification. I actually think I am just going to dump all of my ballasts and go back to my poster of the sun. Works great.
Magnetic = better value. If you bothered to read the OP, I gave credit where credit was due. There is always trade offs when you buy something. You can get value or you can get performance, usually the reason for buying one over the other is just how much performance gain can be had for how much money. That's going to be based on the individual user. Reliability and Value. They don't make magnetic ballasts better performing than digitals, they just make them a better value. This makes them better to me. Almost everything you buy, you can spend more and get a better product.
"You've stated everywhere between $90 to $150 for a magnetic ballast (this is for a 400w), and for a digital ballast you've been around $200 and even $300 in one post (see below). I don't understand what the big deal is between $150 magnetic ballast and a $205 Lumatek Digital w/shipping from greners.com, if you want to save $55 more power to you. I intend to use any income from my extra harvest right back into my grow anyway, saving a few dollars isn't really any of my concern."
Are you saying 90-150 and 200-300 is an unreasonable price range for the products at hand. Everyone isn't growing to sell, so they don't have income from it. It's not just saving money, its spending money you don't have to for minor gains.
"you keep trying to justify not spending the extra money on a digital by spending it elsewhere... some people need the stealth of the digitals. they produce less heat and they are quiet. If i had a magnetic one i would have to buy an exhaust fan as well. exhaust fans make a lot of noise, and draw attention. i think this needs to be taken into account as well. i also had a friend who had 3 magnetic ballast catch fire....i would say this is from the high amounts of heat they produce. he's got like 8-10 1000w lights going. "
Lots of people run exhaust fans in stealth operations, are you running CO2 then? The heat difference isn't that much and minor compared to the heat of the bulb. If you aren't running CO2, how can you not already have an exhaust and carbon filter? You can stand just outside the door to my grow and hear nothing, and that's with a stanley blower, 600 gph air pump, and 2 fans going. I run the heat into my AC intake, which cools it and redistributes it to the rest of the house.
Cowboy, that's how discussions go when there are 2 alternative viewpoints. Each side tries to justify their position.
In the end its what you are comfortable purchasing. If the extra 100 is worth it for you for the benefits of a digital, then its your money. Just don't make the decision based on the wrong reasons. You won't save money buying a digital, so buy it if the extra money you will spend is worth it for the performance you get.
"You've stated everywhere between $90 to $150 for a magnetic ballast (this is for a 400w), and for a digital ballast you've been around $200 and even $300 in one post (see below). I don't understand what the big deal is between $150 magnetic ballast and a $205 Lumatek Digital w/shipping from greners.com, if you want to save $55 more power to you. I intend to use any income from my extra harvest right back into my grow anyway, saving a few dollars isn't really any of my concern."
Are you saying 90-150 and 200-300 is an unreasonable price range for the products at hand. Everyone isn't growing to sell, so they don't have income from it. It's not just saving money, its spending money you don't have to for minor gains.
"you keep trying to justify not spending the extra money on a digital by spending it elsewhere... some people need the stealth of the digitals. they produce less heat and they are quiet. If i had a magnetic one i would have to buy an exhaust fan as well. exhaust fans make a lot of noise, and draw attention. i think this needs to be taken into account as well. i also had a friend who had 3 magnetic ballast catch fire....i would say this is from the high amounts of heat they produce. he's got like 8-10 1000w lights going. "
Lots of people run exhaust fans in stealth operations, are you running CO2 then? The heat difference isn't that much and minor compared to the heat of the bulb. If you aren't running CO2, how can you not already have an exhaust and carbon filter? You can stand just outside the door to my grow and hear nothing, and that's with a stanley blower, 600 gph air pump, and 2 fans going. I run the heat into my AC intake, which cools it and redistributes it to the rest of the house.
Cowboy, that's how discussions go when there are 2 alternative viewpoints. Each side tries to justify their position.
In the end its what you are comfortable purchasing. If the extra 100 is worth it for you for the benefits of a digital, then its your money. Just don't make the decision based on the wrong reasons. You won't save money buying a digital, so buy it if the extra money you will spend is worth it for the performance you get.
LT1RX7 Drifter
Active Member
wow took me over a week to get my nextgen 600/400 watt ballast back to me, and upon its arrivale it had sticky ass nutrient solution dried on it and the ballast case was scratched to hell with a nice ass dent in it, it works, but looks like a piece of scrap metal, called them and told them what i got and "dwight" ask me does it work, i reply with dont give a shit sent me a brand new one or i will contact the BBB in cali and file a complaint with the fedral fair trade comission, since i told them i did not care about there replacment policy with a refurbished crap, with a s.n. that dates my ballast by over a year , im so done with nextgen ballast, hate to say it but i may step up to a "badass" from AN anyone else have issues with nextgen aka C.A.P. industries
Little Tommy
Well-Known Member
Not I, but I completely rebuilt a used one for $47.00.