thisusernameisnottaken
Well-Known Member
2 different lights with hps you burn the top before bleaching if you dont have cooltube/hood with led it's bleaching before they touch the led and burn the top.
Looking Into LED - No Clue Where To Start
- Thread starter noxiously
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jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Ive been using 1000w HM/HPS since they came out in 1977-78.
1000w HID has always been advertised to use in a 4 x 4 area. They may work in a 5 x 5 area, but that is not the original amount of sq/ft that manufactures suggest. Even Hortilux recommends to use in a 4 x 4 area. And when Gavita came out with the 1700e, they recommended it as a direct replacement for a 1000w HID in a 4 x 4 area.
Given that a 1000w HID is 62.5w sq/ft. The Gavita is about 42.5w sqft.
I myself would look into the Mammoth Mint White Series. They have the newest Samsung EVO Diodes, plus a mix of 310H, and 301B. Also have 720nm far red. Mammoth is 4750k temperature, which is like the combination of both MH/HPS. Is also very strong in Green, which has recently been found to be extremely beneficial.
Mammoth comes in 680w, and 880w, and have an efficiency rating of 3.1, about as good as it gets for now.
The 880w Mammoth, has 2711umol. Very few lights put out 2711umol at 880w. The 680w puts out 2100umol, which is the same as a DE HPS.
Mammoth is also really cheap compared to other lights, using similar components. The 880w Mammoth, is $800USD, and when they first came out this year, they were $1000.
thumper60
Well-Known Member
9x6 is weird set up go 9x5 an hang 2 700 watt led light bars 1400 watts be killing it! I went from 2k of hps in a 10x 5 to 1400 watts of led my cost is down 30% my yeild is up 20%.
noxiously
Well-Known Member
I'm U.S., and would prefer something from a U.S. company/builder. Nothing against Chinese products but they don't seem to have the best track record with things. I've heard of some of the Chinese ones catching fire or getting extremely hot, and some that won't turn completely off when the timer goes off.
I've read some reviews about Mars Hydro and the people were saying their customer support is horrible, just a voicemail that doesn't even say anything about Mars Hydro and since they are built over seas it's cheaper to buy a new one than send it back. Could have just been a disgruntled customer, or even a rep from some other company leaving those reviews. I'd rather talk to the people who actually use these products, they have the best knowledge on them.
noxiously
Well-Known Member
It's definitely an odd size, the way it got to that was it's in the basement, the basement has a cinder block wall that runs down the middle with a doorway to the other side. Each side of the basement is about 12-15 ft from center wall to foundation wall. I just built a wall across, going from center to foundation wall based on duct work, other wiring, etc. and did it in a way so I didn't have to do a lot of extra drywalling and such to get around those things.
From back to front of the room is about 9 ft. I don't use the first 2 ft of the room for anything other than being able to move around. Door opens outwards, so if I get rid of the nft and flood table, move n cool I would up my usable area to close to the full 9 ft. To me there is a lot of wasted space and light; not as efficient as I could get it. I'd like to remove the two systems, fill the room with flood and drain buckets, get about 24 in there, have the res on the other side of wall, have two large LED's hanging in the center, front to back, or 4 smaller lights, one for each quadrant to get maximum coverage. It bugs me how inefficient it is and it's one of the driving factors as to going LED, it gives me a reason to scrap everything and start fresh.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Go to Instagram, and check out Mammoth Lighting. They have all kinds of photos of their grows, other peoples grows, tests.
And NO, I dont wrk for them, and have no affiliation with them. I did buy 2 of the 880w Mint White, to give to my buddy, and hes not used them yet.
More than 1000 posts, and 18.5k followers.
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Samsung’s newest EVO chip has landed with Mammoth and a revolution in plant lighting has arrived. Using a differentiated spectrum, trials show larger and heavier growth….even under the same ppfd conditions.
Samsung’s innovative plant-centric spectrum LED dramatically boosts photosynthesis over existing horticulture lighting solutions and results in better, more holistic plant growth. Its 437 nm spectral peak, a shorter wavelength than that of conventional horticultural white LEDs, also stimulates secondary metabolites, such as phenolics and flavanols, to improve plant’s nutritional quality.
Moreover, this newly engineered spectrum effectively inhibits the growth of microorganisms like bacteria and fungi, leading to longer-lasting storability. Lastly, its industry-leading PPE consumes minimal energy, contributing to long term energy-savings and reduced operational costs for indoor farms.
On to Green: Many believe the plant reflects this color. The facts are - green is photosynthetic although less so than other colors at low ppfd levels but MORE so at higher ppfd levels due to its deeper leaf penetration properties. See the graphs - With cannabis requiring high ppfd - wouldn’t it make sense to include a good portion of green in the spectrum like nature? We have now!
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Phytoplankton
Well-Known Member
HLG, US made, GREAT customer service, they also sell refurbished units at a good price, and they have a 1 year warranty. I bought a refurbished 550rspec three years ago, NO issues, grows great weed.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Go to Instagram, and check out Mammoth Lighting. They have all kinds of photos of their grows, other peoples grows, tests.
And NO, I dont wrk for them, and have no affiliation with them. I did buy 2 of the 880w Mint White, to give to my buddy, and hes not used them yet.
More than 1000 posts, and 18.5k followers.
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View attachment 5331541
Samsung’s newest EVO chip has landed with Mammoth and a revolution in plant lighting has arrived. Using a differentiated spectrum, trials show larger and heavier growth….even under the same ppfd conditions.
Samsung’s innovative plant-centric spectrum LED dramatically boosts photosynthesis over existing horticulture lighting solutions and results in better, more holistic plant growth. Its 437 nm spectral peak, a shorter wavelength than that of conventional horticultural white LEDs, also stimulates secondary metabolites, such as phenolics and flavanols, to improve plant’s nutritional quality.
Moreover, this newly engineered spectrum effectively inhibits the growth of microorganisms like bacteria and fungi, leading to longer-lasting storability. Lastly, its industry-leading PPE consumes minimal energy, contributing to long term energy-savings and reduced operational costs for indoor farms.
On to Green: Many believe the plant reflects this color. The facts are - green is photosynthetic although less so than other colors at low ppfd levels but MORE so at higher ppfd levels due to its deeper leaf penetration properties. See the graphs - With cannabis requiring high ppfd - wouldn’t it make sense to include a good portion of green in the spectrum like nature? We have now!
Both these brand have the same features: a blue spike that hits both 437-450nm which seems to work by activating 2 separate chlorophyll systems.
On the extra green in the new mammoth:
Id like to see a little bit more than just screenshots with no links in order to believe this fully, it kinda runs counter to what many other light makers with horti-research division are doing. But happy to see someone doing something new, just as long as its not just another colored diode on the light.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
This is from 2017, and has no connection, to Mammoth.
Don’t ignore the green light: exploring diverse roles in plant processes
- Chlorophyll and other photoreceptors allow the plant to sense and use green light The photosynthetic pigments in higher plants are chlorophyll and carotenoids. ...
- Green light distributes energy among leaves and canopies Green light makes a unique contribution to photosynthesis on both a leaf and canopy level. ...
- Green light is a shade signal Like chlorophyll, whole leaves do not exist in isolation. ...
Publish Year: 2017
Don’t ignore the green light: exploring diverse roles in plant ...
academic.oup.com/jxb/article/68/9/2099/3857754
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Very nice article
noxiously
Well-Known Member
So I ended up purchasing a ViparSpectra KS5000. Amazon had it listed for $469, had a $100 off coupon, and I used an additional promo code for another 10% off. In total, with taxes it was under $400, so I might buy another one once I get it up and running for a few days.
Specs from Coco For Cannabis:
Power Draw - 488w
Usable ePPF - 1186
Usable ePPE - 2.43 umol
Supposed Coverage - 18 sq ft.
Listed Specs from ViparSpectra:
Samsung LM301H Diodes w/ osram 660nm diodes
Power Draw - 500w
Average PPFD - 979 at hanging height of 13 inches
2.48 umol
Recommended Coverage - 4x4 area 16 sq. ft.
Meanwell driver
Should be a good enough unit to replace a 600w hps, possibly the 1000w hps.
Specs from Coco For Cannabis:
Power Draw - 488w
Usable ePPF - 1186
Usable ePPE - 2.43 umol
Supposed Coverage - 18 sq ft.
Listed Specs from ViparSpectra:
Samsung LM301H Diodes w/ osram 660nm diodes
Power Draw - 500w
Average PPFD - 979 at hanging height of 13 inches
2.48 umol
Recommended Coverage - 4x4 area 16 sq. ft.
Meanwell driver
Should be a good enough unit to replace a 600w hps, possibly the 1000w hps.
PopAndSonGrows
Well-Known Member
Gonna agree with watching the MIGRO youtube channel. Everything from ideal spectrum, intensity, wattage for plant growth, comparison of media for growth rates, etc. Tons of great info to help you decide on a light.
PopAndSonGrows
Well-Known Member
That'll work really well. Generally speaking, I believe the KS fixture leans more blue/white than something like SpiderFarmer which leans a little more red overall. Still a great one-n-done fixture
noxiously
Well-Known Member
Yea, since this will be my first LED fixture it will be a good way to experiment and learn it. It will stay solely in the flower room so I won't use it for veg, unless it does really well and I buy more later on. Either way, I think it's a decent middle of the road LED to get my feet wet and start getting away from HID lights.
PopAndSonGrows
Well-Known Member
That thing (and this goes for the Mars/Spider fixtures too) is like the Toyota Camry of lights; it'll certainly get you to work on time, and reliably
on that note HAVE U SEEN a Camry in the last few yrs or so?? They're frickin insane, lol
grotbags
Well-Known Member
there is nothing in either of those papers that suggests adding additional green light to a "typical" white led spectrum is a good idea.
the first paper mammouth quotes from is using halogen as the white light source not led, halogens spectrum is extremely red heavy with medium/moderate amounts of green and very little blue, its nothing like the typical white led spectrum used by growlight manufactures, mammoth included.
in that context its not unreasonable to suggest once saturation occurs from high intensity halogen light that adding additional red light would have no benefit but adding additional green light will have an effect via deeper leaf/canopy penertration.
the second paper quoted by jimihendrix1 is using led as the main light source but they are using 450nm and 660nm mono's (think burple) which has no green light present at all in the base spectrum, so again sounds totally reasonable to say once saturation has occured from the 450nm + 660nm light that adding any amount of additional green light will be beneficial and will continue to drive photosynthesis via deep leaf/canopy penatration.
the problem with this is typical white led grow lights already have sufficient amounts of green and by the time you reach red light saturation levels in the surface of the leaves using white leds there is an abundance of green light present.
typical halogen spectrums...comparatively low green light levels.
typical burple spectrum...more or less zero green light.
typical white led + 660nm spectrum... loads of green.
mamoths original mint spectrum... even more green than standard "white" led.
No, that's a white LED. It has nothing to do with horticulture. You take a blue LED, add phosphor and that converts it to longer wavelengths with a small loss of energy, giving you a mix of green and red light plus the blue of the pump diode.
The EVO series is just different in that it uses a 430 nm pump and not the usual 450 nm.
Plants dont really care what spectrum they get, within reason. And while white light grows great plants and is nice to work under their main advantage is that they are incredibly cheap.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Sorry, i thought i was clear. I talk about its spectrum, blue spike as in the combined blue peak of the two white diodes. Its photon pump is at 437nm iirc , in any case the point is both hlg and mammoth does this, and its a definite value adding feature imo it covers better both cholorophyll A and B;
Chloro A is scarcely covered using a standard HE spectrum while B is very well covered. It also covers better the stomatal aperture action spectrum.
But i kinda agree on photons are photons generally; we tried many, many different whites and whites + red. And most grows they pretty much did the same. Sometimes whites and reds win and yield sometimes whites, seems to be somewhat strain dependant.
Adding another lower blue pump, in our case 400nm, in generous amounts has changed the dial on the grow.
I like more 660nm red than vipar offers on spectrum especially for flower.
noxiously
Well-Known Member
That thing (and this goes for the Mars/Spider fixtures too) is like the Toyota Camry of lights; it'll certainly get you to work on time, and reliably
Great analogy
. Some of those Camry's are nice as some "luxury" sedans anymore, they have came a long way. If I wasn't so stuck on GM I'd consider buying one lol.