Looking for some cloning help please.

So just before I give up on cloning, I'm going to throw one last attempt at it.
I've got one healthy female that I have been vegging for 2 months. She's actually Showing her hairs quit plentifully now. Don't know if that has anything to do with my failure to produce a living clone, yout tell me.
My basic procedure is as follows:
I took cuttings from the plant, about 5" long to be exact. I cut the stem at a 45 degree angle, but did not split it, I left it whole. I dipped it in water, then dipped in my rooting hormone, see attached photo.
I then stabbed it in a 2" x 2" x 2" rockwool cube that I had soaked in a water/ rooting solution mixture.
I have them in a humidty dome, see attached, and have tried the vents in multiple configurations.
Temps are 75-80, hunmidity is ambient, but probably 50% for sake of argument. I haven't fed any nutes and have not watered them at all, I assume the soaked rockwool is good for that. I have however misted water in on the second cloning attempt, I did not the first time around.
They are on 24 hour light under 6500k cfls.

The only thing I can think of is, and I thought I had it fixed is.... my water is 6.5 ph, and I know that's a bit high, so I used the rooting solution in the water I soaked the rockwool cubes in.
Anyone else have any ideas?
These things just shrivel up and die. The first time, with ho humidity dome it was overnight. At least with the humidity dome they lasted a few days. I pulled the stem of one of the dead ones and it zero, I mean ZERO root growth.
I hate the idea of gowing back to seed grows.

you are taking to big of clones. you only need like one node of new growth and one full leaf and the stem frome there down to the next node.

cableguy said:

you are taking to big of clones. you only need like one node of new growth and one full leaf and the stem frome there down to the next node.

Click to expand...

also keep the humidity high and mist them every day

cableguy said:

also keep the humidity high and mist them every day

Click to expand...

it will probably take a couple weeks you could also put a heat pad under their tray that will help speed things up.
also you may want to try an easy cloner they are easy to make and arent that expencive to buy any way i think they are well worth the $170 i go 25/25 almost every time

Thanks for the input to all.

I'm going to try 2 new ones tomorrow, and will cut them shorter than the previous attempts. I'll mist them daily.

Can someone tell me what purpose the vents serve on the top of the dome? How long are they supposed to remain closed? Is there a target humidty level for the clones?

Hi. My personal opinion rockwool is little bit hard for 1 timer, use jiffy plugs much more easy to clone with them. If RW is to dry is not good, to wet is event worse. So try with JP you will like it.
Regards

i have a question as welll. if the temperature is high do the watts in the light really matter. the light we use goes to the high eighties which we think should be fine for one plant.

I've had a 95% or better success rate with rockwool, but my system is slightly different;
Even more important with big clones - no air on the cut, do the final cut underwater and immediately go to rooting gel.
I use the rockwool plugs ( the ones that fit into the cubes ) which are a cylinder and have a slice on the side. I carefully insert the stem into the center from the top, where the slice ends.
I keep my plugs in a tray that has standing nute solution. The clones, when small need constant contact with liquid, once the first true roots come out ( which you can see thru the cut ), you can back off on the liquid and give the roots more oxygen.

To answer about the dome vents : The target humidity for clones with no roots should be close to 100%, so keep the vents closed. As roots develop, you can decrease the humidity.

From what you wrote it sounds like you have the concept down...could be some variables tho...For starters, if you have had trouble in the past with clones not rooting, check your cloning gel...a common mistake is letting the gel go bad because it wasn't refridgerated. Could be molding or seperated. Another thing is lighting, another common mistake is TOO MUCH light...They don't need much to start new root systems, infact less is more when developing new roots. As long as you have wet rockwool and humidity in the dome with a semi-sterile environment, I don't see a problem with your techniques..

Cool. I started 3 cuttings last night, we'll see how it goes. They appear to be drooping a bit, but they have been holding steady.

I've been misting the inside of the dome every couple of hours. I have a hygrometer that shows it to be in the mid 80%'s pretty steady.

How long should I anticipate it being before I can put a 12" plant into flower? 2 weeks? 3?

Never done this before, obviously.

Thanks.

Step One:Choose a mother plant that is at least two months old and 24 inches tall. Some varieties give great clones even when pumped up with hydroponics and fertilizer to grow fast. If a variety is difficult to clone, leach the soil daily with two gallons of water for each gallon of soil every morning for a week before taking clones. Drainage must be good. Or mist leaves heavily with plain water every morning. Both practices help wash out nitrogen. Do not add fertilizer.Step Two:Older branch tips root easiest. With a sharp blade, make a 45-degree cut across firm, healthy 1/8 – 1-inch-wide branches, 2 – 4 inches long. Take care not to smash the end of the stem when making the cut. Trim off two or three sets of leaves and growth nodes so the stem can fit in the soil. There should be at least two sets of leaves above the soil line and one or two sets of trimmed nodes below ground. When cutting, make the slice halfway between the sets of nodes. Immediately place the cut end in fresh, tepid water to keep an air bubble from lodging in the hole in the center of the stem. Store cuttings in water while making more cuttings.Step Three:Rockwool or Oasis™ root cubes cost a little more than soilless mixes, but are very convenient and easy to maintain and transplant. Fill small containers or nursery flats with coarse, washed sand, fine vermiculite, soilless mix or if nothing else is available, fine potting soil. Saturate the substrate with tepid water. Use an unsharpened pencil or chop stick to make a hole in the rooting medium a little larger than the stem. The hole should bottom out about one half inch from the bottom of the container to allow for root growth.Step Four:Use a rooting hormone and mix (if necessary) just before using. For liquids, use the dilution ratio for softwood cuttings. Swirl each cutting in the hormone solution for 5 – 10 seconds. Place the cuttings in the hole in the rooting medium. Pack rooting medium gently around the stem. Gel and powder root hormones require no mixing. Dip stems in gels as per instructions or roll the stem in the powder. When planting, take special care to keep a solid layer of hormone gel or powder around the stem when gently packing soil into place.Step Five:Lightly water with a mild transplanting solution containing vitamin B1 until the surface is evenly moist. Water as needed.Step Six:Clones root fastest with 18 – 24 hours of fluorescent light. If clones must be placed under a HID, set them on the perimeter of the garden so they receive less intense light, or shade them with a cloth or screen.Step Seven:Clones root fastest when humidity levels are 95 - 100 percent the first two days and gradually reduced to 85 percent over the next week. A humidity tent will keep humidity above 90 percent. Construct the tent out of plastic bags, plastic film or glass. Remember to leave a breezeway so little clones can breathe. If practical, mist clones several times a day as an alternative to the humidity tent. Remove any rotting foliage. Step Eight:Air temperature should stay about 5 degrees cooler than the 75 – 80-degree rooting medium. Put clones in a warm place to increase air temperature and use a heat pad, heating cables or an incandescent light bulb below rooting cuttings. Step Nine:Some cuttings may wilt but regain rigidity in a few days. Clones should look close to normal by the end of the week. Cuttings still wilted after 7 days, may root so slowly that they never catch up with others. Consider culling out cuttings that root slowly.Step Ten:In one to three weeks, cuttings should be rooted. Signals they have rooted include yellow leaf tips and roots growing out drain holes and clones will start vertical growth. To check for root growth in flats or pots, carefully remove the root ball and clone to see if it has good root development. For best results, do not transplant clones until a dense root system is growing out the sides and bottom of rooting cubes.

Sandman45 said:

......
How long should I anticipate it being before I can put a 12" plant into flower? 2 weeks? 3?

Click to expand...

Any size plant will flower given 12/12. Seedlings grown from 12/12 have issues because they haven't reached sexual maturity, but can be forced to do so. New clones can be flowered at any time since they are already sexually mature. Any other plant past the seedling stage can flower at any time, given the light regimen. BUT, plants need a sufficient root system to flower well, where maximum root growth occurs during veg. Clones grown under my conditions 24/0 start to show vigorous growth after 3-4 weeks, indicating good roots, at which time I could start flowering. ( SOG, I suppose )
So, I would say as long as the root system is good and you have a few nodes ( obviously on a 12" plant ) you can go any time.
Just as a side thought : there is an efficiency to growing certain size plants under a certain number of lumens, which is almost impossible to calculate. But through experience with your strain, you can make some guesses to how large the plant should be at each stage. Estimate the full flowered size for your maximum light, and work back a few weeks.
The plant area to light ratio is critical to efficiency : too little plant/light and you waste electricity, $ and the size of the plants cannot support enough flowers to be very productive. Too little light/plant and you get lower flower density and waste time and $ vegging extra. Somewhere in the middle is maximum yield.
So "How long ?" , after all that crap, my answer is I don't know.

Sandman45 said:

So just before I give up on cloning, I'm going to throw one last attempt at it.
I've got one healthy female that I have been vegging for 2 months. She's actually Showing her hairs quit plentifully now. Don't know if that has anything to do with my failure to produce a living clone, yout tell me.
My basic procedure is as follows:
I took cuttings from the plant, about 5" long to be exact. I cut the stem at a 45 degree angle, but did not split it, I left it whole. I dipped it in water, then dipped in my rooting hormone, see attached photo.
I then stabbed it in a 2" x 2" x 2" rockwool cube that I had soaked in a water/ rooting solution mixture.
I have them in a humidty dome, see attached, and have tried the vents in multiple configurations.
Temps are 75-80, hunmidity is ambient, but probably 50% for sake of argument. I haven't fed any nutes and have not watered them at all, I assume the soaked rockwool is good for that. I have however misted water in on the second cloning attempt, I did not the first time around.
They are on 24 hour light under 6500k cfls.

The only thing I can think of is, and I thought I had it fixed is.... my water is 6.5 ph, and I know that's a bit high, so I used the rooting solution in the water I soaked the rockwool cubes in.
Anyone else have any ideas?
These things just shrivel up and die. The first time, with ho humidity dome it was overnight. At least with the humidity dome they lasted a few days. I pulled the stem of one of the dead ones and it zero, I mean ZERO root growth.
I hate the idea of gowing back to seed grows.

Click to expand...

im sorry to hear that you are having trouble with clones.
when i first started i used the jiffy pellets and kept watering them when they dried out slightly, i had some die and some were good cuttings.

i hate starting from seed as it takes too long compared with clones so i bought an aeroponic cloning tank which i swear by, you would have almost no worries with one of these buddy.

i take cuttings from the lowest 4 branches, usually i use the lowest 4 branches themselves as cuttings, if you take them from higher up on the plant then they drop off alot with stem rot where the stem just turns to jello. as soon as you make the diagonal cut, dip them into your hormone gel or powder.

what you are doing sounds right but you must keep the rockwool moist and they may take 14 days to root sometimes even longer.
i would advise getting an aero cloner though, you can even build one cheaply from 2" pipe and push fit elbow joints etc that you fit to a pump and place inside a plastic tote that has a lid with holes cut into the top.

picture 4 is of my own home made pipe that i have used successfully in a plastic tank. ive tried to paste a link to more ideas here

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/8809-variations-home-made-aero-cloners.html

greenyield said:

im sorry to hear that you are having trouble with clones.
when i first started i used the jiffy pellets and kept watering them when they dried out slightly, i had some die and some were good cuttings.

i hate starting from seed as it takes too long compared with clones so i bought an aeroponic cloning tank which i swear by, you would have almost no worries with one of these buddy.

i take cuttings from the lowest 4 branches, usually i use the lowest 4 branches themselves as cuttings, if you take them from higher up on the plant then they drop off alot with stem rot where the stem just turns to jello. as soon as you make the diagonal cut, dip them into your hormone gel or powder.

what you are doing sounds right but you must keep the rockwool moist and they may take 14 days to root sometimes even longer.
i would advise getting an aero cloner though, you can even build one cheaply from 2" pipe and push fit elbow joints etc that you fit to a pump and place inside a plastic tote that has a lid with holes cut into the top.

picture 4 is of my own home made pipe that i have used successfully in a plastic tank. ive tried to paste a link to more ideas here

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/8809-variations-home-made-aero-cloners.html

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to have to figure something out as I don't want to have to mess with sorting out males if I go continually from seed, not to mention running out of seeds.


ON that note, does anyone know the wherebouts of a decent set of plans for a cloner? I've serached a bit for DIY ones, but haven't found anything really effective.

Off the record, I'm a manufacturing/structural engineer by profession and have access to a full manufacturing facility and can pretty much build anything I can think up.

I have zero idea how a cloner works, but I have full intentions of learning now and will build my own in due time.

Thanks again,
Sandman

dude i know it sounds stupid but I have been having tons of problems lately when I used to be able to clone no prob for about a year. The last couple attempts were jiffy plugs and cups of RO water (gallons from walmart) with aluminum foil over the top and a hole in the foil to support the clone. Guess what...2 of 3 jiffy plugs popped roots in about 2.5 weeks but not very big roots and 4/4 cups of water had very, very well developed roots. From now on I am sticking to cups of water. KISS = Keep it simple stupid.

heres a video so u can watch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T07--heDYHc

I personally don't like to use rockwool unless I am intending the plant for hydro.

If planting in dirt or coco I use rapidrooters, no ph adjusting necessary to boot!

I also like to use two different rooting products at once and generally have roots in seven days or less.

Take cutting let sit in cloning hormone solution (dip n gro)

Once I have about 20 cuttings sitting in the cup I leave the room and go smoke a bong load or make myself some food real quick. Once a finite amount of time passes I come back.

I portion out gel into each rapid rooter, plant each cutting gently pushing the stem into the rooter through the hold the facilitate. Rip a small portion off and stick it in the hole to cover the stem.

You notice stems swelling near the soilless pot thing and have first signs of roots in about 6-7 days.

lol crackerjax

thanks for the info. i tend to learn better from others mistakes