Lollipopping ( Any Scientific Evidence? )

Doer

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of valid reasons dude. The light intensity drastically is reduced the further away from the buds are from the light. So, one of the reasons i do it is to avoid having any bullshit, immature, undeveloped popcorn bud. Not doing it has the plant wasting energy, it could be sending to the top, primo buds, on those, again, shitty little popcorn buds. Dont have any scientific evidence for you, just my own experience. My yields are the same regardless, but again, by lollypoping, the amount i get is all good shit, and no undeveloped buds
No. Yields are not the same and you have a scale, can do the tests and should know better.

Plants do not "waste" energy. The entire argument is a specious Ganja Myth, Light is used by the entire plant, not just the part it falls on. The leaves lower down are bigger so their PAR efficiency is the same. Leaves don't block PAR, etc.

The reason my buds are dense down low and green, etc, is because I don't withhold nitrogen. If you feed correctly and don't take leaves you get more THC. So, your ideas are all commercial about the looks, only.

Did you even read this thread?

You too, are suffering from 6 assumptions that don't fit the Botanical Science of this.

I posted all that a few pages back, Please, do keep up. Thanks.
 
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Doer

Well-Known Member
I read a few pages back about someone saying led lights cant grow a+ weed only B+. I can say light is 1/4 what it takes to grow them right. you must have all in play. Lights are what is needed to finish your style environment. If heat is an issue led's could be the cure. I think fluorescent can do it as well as hid and led. Dont blame the lights when it fails, blame yourself. If you read what they say you will get it.
Light Watts is 3/4 of the need, if I want to grow A+ pot. Light alone makes the THC. It can grow with a very low light but will not produce the Meds. The other part 1/4, is me getting a plant Vegged up, that can take a lot of light.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Pot calling the kettle black. Whew, where in hell do these people come from? Washington D.C.?

It's a (natural) reaction. Someone needs to check their own nasty and arrogant posting decorum out.... witness your FIRST post in this thread. --> "
Wow, seems uncle ben still hasnt figured out that you get better, bigger, more fully developed buds when theres light getting to them. Youd think a guy with a head of knowledge like he has would be able to look at a cannabis plant and see how poorly the bottom buds turn out on some genetics and concede. If you grow big canopies indoor youll see light green underdeveloped scraglies where theres a lack of light. Same thing with pruning a tomato plant. Its common sense. Proper pruning produces better quality more uniform fruits. Fact."

You, a hypocrite, come in a here like a bull in a china/crystal store full of forum folklore and hearsay and void of botanical fact. Expect to be corrected by those who are willing to take the time to help - Chuck, Doer, Caretaker, me, and others.

And to correct you again, I never said that topping was my invention. Topping to get 2 - 4 main colas is/was, about 15 years ago. I introduced it before there was Vbulletin type forums, while you was still messin' in your drawers and I was experimenting with cannabis until there was no tommorrow. :)

Lollipopping is not only wrong, it's stupid. Regarding SOG or SCROG (which I'd never do) if the leaves are yellowing, obviously not productive, then yank them. If they are green, leave them alone. Let the plant drop them on it's own accord. Needless to say they are not as active (productive) as their newer counterparts but they are still involved in the overall functioning and welfare of the plant - they are transpiring and act as food storage units aka resources for the plant. Like I said, via a CO2 flag the plant will drop them (first pulling the metabolites from the leaf tissue) when the leaf's CO2 processing activity falls below a certain level.

UB
The way we do this in CA is via commercial grading. We have top, middle and bottom shelf, all by LOOKS. So weird, since it is all Assayed for THC concentration also. But, it is not sold that way.

You commercial guys will make more money if you offer grades. If you sell a Cola oz for $300, you can sell popcorn for $150 and it will probably have slightly more THC than the Colas, but don't say that. You still want to sell the Colas. And your cola production will not suffer. It will improve if you let all that carefully laid leaf pattern, live it's natural PAR life.
Ever run out of Cola Zs? Sell the popcorn.

Think about this, No one is around to pull the leaves off landrace strains in Tibet or keep it seedless. Yet, by all accounts, it is the strongest, and best stuff. Hand rolling hash, there, is simply to get the seeds out. So, that is real. Even seedless does not increase potency. Yet Another Myth.
 
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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
All here is a flower for peace on a great sunday. Now this is day 25 under fluorescent lights and I have not seen this as much under led/hps/cmh which i have them all and have used them all to grow this strain.
enjoy your fresh flower all. oh yeah click on it to zoom.
Looking good!

You mention light sources and then there's W./s.f., another myth I busted 15 years ago when there was no pot forums, only newsgroups to talk pot - ADPC. A few folks were bragging about 100W/s.f., the "more light the better"..... totally out of control macho stuff. I brought the facts, that every plant and that includes cannabis, has a light saturation point. Man, you'd thought I shot their dog. It's all relative - NO ONE has the same type hood, efficiency, lamps, lamp age, etc. I got flamed for not going along with the herd, and that was like 15 years or so ago! Nothing's changed.

For the record, I grew my avatar from start to finish with HPS only. So much for all the spectrum hype. As long as there's blues, a plain Jane HPS is fine and yes it has blues. I have never grown a plant that had such a rock hard cola as the one in my avatar.

Many ex RIU members got fed up with this place and are posting at the Riddle site, that includes you and me. It's pretty cool to see Cruz doing the Dalat I gifted him, going on 8' now. It's gonna be a monster. I only did it indoors so journals like that is pretty damn exciting for me!

UB
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
Doer I dont want to argue.Light isnt 3/4 seen a kessil 150 grow 4 small plants and produce 1.5 grams per watt of good meds.That was GOD's scrog grow and he yielded 2 oz on his best grow but got 1.5 oz allot. I do like the big lights but my fav right now is my t5ho 648 watt with ati bulbs.
Thank you UB. I do love how we dont argue over at riddle. I do admit when i have been beet and you all beet me up enough on removing leaves, so I will not unless they are dead or dam near dead.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Looking good!

You mention light sources and then there's W./s.f., another myth I busted 15 years ago when there was no pot forums, only newsgroups to talk pot - ADPC. A few folks were bragging about 100W/s.f., the "more light the better"..... totally out of control macho stuff. I brought the facts, that every plant and that includes cannabis, has a light saturation point. Man, you'd thought I shot their dog. It's all relative - NO ONE has the same type hood, efficiency, lamps, lamp age, etc. I got flamed for not going along with the herd, and that was like 15 years or so ago! Nothing's changed.

For the record, I grew my avatar from start to finish with HPS only. So much for all the spectrum hype. As long as there's blues, a plain Jane HPS is fine and yes it has blues. I have never grown a plant that had such a rock hard cola as the one in my avatar.

Many ex RIU members got fed up with this place and are posting at the Riddle site, that includes you and me. It's pretty cool to see Cruz doing the Dalat I gifted him, going on 8' now. It's gonna be a monster. I only did it indoors so journals like that is pretty damn exciting for me!

UB
You just have to burn a few to understand this one. My first run of WW I did that. I let them grow up into a 1000w water cooled HPS hood. Not good. It bleaches the leaves, but what do I know? White Widow? But, It burned the tricomes and made it taste weird. It cured to a spongy cardboard consistency and was not smoke-able. It just sat in the jar, 9 ozs, until I got it together to extract, only 9 grams. That is a pitiful yield.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Doer I dont want to argue.Light isnt 3/4 seen a kessil 150 grow 4 small plants and produce 1.5 grams per watt of good meds.That was GOD's scrog grow and he yielded 2 oz on his best grow but got 1.5 oz allot. I do like the big lights but my fav right now is my t5ho 648 watt with ati bulbs.
Thank you UB. I do love how we dont argue over at riddle. I do admit when i have been beet and you all beet me up enough on removing leaves, so I will not unless they are dead or dam near dead.
No argument my friend, just my experience. Remember, I never said a word about quantity,

Light is quality.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
.
Thank you UB. I do love how we dont argue over at riddle. I do admit when i have been beet and you all beet me up enough on removing leaves, so I will not unless they are dead or dam near dead.
I wait until when I touch them, they come right off. It it just a brown crispy by then. Before that the girl is still draining back feed from that leaf.
 
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DCobeen

Well-Known Member
right on bro. I am learning indoors and UB has helped me. I trust him and it took a bit so i know i want to take some off it but wont till they either fall off or like you said are crispy brownish
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Lollipopping isn't a defoliation method. It should be thought of more like topping, only at the lower end of the plant. You're supposed to leave the leaves!

Lollipopping doesn't mean butchering a giant Christmas tree into a stick. That's the noob way to lollipop, and it is a waste of energy to cut off giant branches. They spent an enormous amount of their food(sugars) building those long bottom branches.. That would be like cutting off the top half of your plant and calling it topping. It's not true lollipopping.

Real lollipopping is a technique used by SOG growers meant to go with low to no veg time. Side shoots are cut off immediately as soon as they're big enough to cut off, but DO NOT CUT THE LEAVES. They will come off on their own if they aren't getting enough light!
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
my cutting privileges have been revoked so i am shutting up. UB took my snips till they are ready to chop. Now to blow you mind. I can dry cure on the plant. done it already with my last c99. Wow how great it was. So all you choppers can chop and loose allot of quality. But as far as removing anything nope unless its a plant to take a clone from.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
my cutting privileges have been revoked so i am shutting up. UB took my snips till they are ready to chop. Now to blow you mind. I can dry cure on the plant. done it already with my last c99. Wow how great it was. So all you choppers can chop and loose allot of quality. But as far as removing anything nope unless its a plant to take a clone from.
this guy said "loose quality." Wake up friend, quit living in fantasy land. Please know your garden is not the best. Can tell by how much cock you've smoking. "UB took my snips".... Wtf.......
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
*Excess red and far red, penetrate.

Yes, it does, but to varying degrees. And this then causes specific effects and/or reactions in the parts of the plant receiving different (and perhaps insufficient) amounts and wavelengths. I've been doing research for what i consider to be a significant amount of time now (especially since i'm in the LED camp, where we have increased incentive to take note of spectral differences and specific wavelengths, since eliminating "wasted light" is one of the efficiency benefits of LED...). How much useful light actually passes through a nearly opaque top leaf? Two nearly opaque top leaves? Three? According to my own visual assessment: not very damn much! When i see wilting under-leaves, but everything else looks great, this tells me those under-leaves are Not getting enough useful light, despite the granted fact that certain wavelengths do indeed pass through. At some point, all the useful photons have been snared by leaf material; if any leaf material remains beyond this point, they are not getting enough light, which is where my previous comment comes from: spend energy to grow under-leaves which will never get enough light to contribute effectively, or snip them before the plant spends energy to grow something that cannot contribute (and thus causes detriment via wasted energy)?

Also there is the issue of insufficient horizontal space, in which case 'lollipopping' becomes more relevant. If your lamp can only penetrate, say, 2 layers of canopy... you don't need to spend harnessed energy to grow a third layer of canopy, because they won't get enough light to develop properly, and will therefore spend more energy than they contribute (and on insufficient development, for that matter). That third unlighted canopy is terribly inefficient, because it takes energy to grow something suboptimal, but is also unable to contribute as much as it spends or "sucks." It is a negative sum-total. An unlighted leaf consumes more than it makes, which is both inefficient and possibly detrimental to overall plant health. If you're burning ~90% efficient electricity to grow a <50% efficient plant... that seems not good, to me. I want as much of the energy as possible to be used as effectively as possible. Plus i like being able to access my soil, whether for watering or just poking around, so anything between the top of the soil and the screen, or perhaps my lowest useful canopy level (method depending), is really just causing problems and reducing efficiency overall.

And then we can head on over into mainlining territory, where, apparently, it actually matters which flowers come from which nodes. If you have a 2ft skinny branch with shaded leaves, which will likely only produce a "popcorn" bud, does that seem good to you? I'd rather have 32 colas branched from the lowest node, than a bunch of stem-spaghetti and popcorn everywhere.

It seems kinda ridiculous to get worked up over a useful technique, used by Others, just because you feel it's not helpful in YOUR situation.

If you have enough light in all the right places, keep everything! But most of us don't have that. So some of us try to maximize the efficiency of our configurations, by eliminating what WE feel is "wasted" energy. Yes, that energy "is consumed," but that is not the point: what is produced as a result of that consumption, is the point. If the energy my plant is receiving, is only being half-effectively used, that is inefficient, and is an insufficient efficiency rating, in my book.

If i couldn't read, and hadn't done research, i wouldn't even have an opinion on this matter. I'm only here BECAUSE i Can read, and Have done research, and have directly observed factors and results, related to this topic.

It's easy to see why some people would want to prune the inferior parts, which are expected to remain inferior, due to insufficient lighting for 3rd or 4th+ level canopies. Those photons don't just continue infinitely, they get harnessed. Below that, leaves aren't receiving light, and can't contribute, and can't develop, but still consume energy to be maintained. Eliminate that useless energy consumption, preferably before it ever grows, and what is effectively and efficiently harnessed by the rest of the plant, can be put to better use. Makes plenty of sense to me. ^^
You covered almost everything. Thanx. Another intelligent reader. Few of us here. Now to finish your thread. The tricoms with their ball on top of a clear stem act like fiber optic collectors the redistribute the light. But they magnified and direct it towards the bud. Bud photosynthesis too. And if you noticed they ate darker them the leaves. Because they do it more efficiently then leaf. About 3 to 6 times more. So once you have three weeks worth of bud growth it can do all the work. Also the pants reaction to stripping leaves is to increase resin and put more on the smaller leaves you didn't take to keep them from being removed. Plant doesn't know we exist. A million years of ingrains. To them were just another animal eating the non resigned leaves. So if that's all were taking the plant react by putting more resin to stop the eating.
Those that leave all leaf harvest a pound of bud and over a pound of leaf. Take the leaf and harvest all bud. Plant still makes the same weight total. Just like lollipopping doesn't take away weight, just distributes it towards the tip of the branch where the plant has an easier time growing then down low.
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
You covered almost everything. Thanx. Another intelligent reader. Few of us here. Now to finish your thread. The tricoms with their ball on top of a clear stem act like fiber optic collectors the redistribute the light. But they magnified and direct it towards the bud. Bud photosynthesis too. And if you noticed they ate darker them the leaves. Because they do it more efficiently then leaf. About 3 to 6 times more. So once you have three weeks worth of bud growth it can do all the work. Also the pants reaction to stripping leaves is to increase resin and put more on the smaller leaves you didn't take to keep them from being removed. Plant doesn't know we exist. A million years of ingrains. To them were just another animal eating the non resigned leaves. So if that's all were taking the plant react by putting more resin to stop the eating.
Those that leave all leaf harvest a pound of bud and over a pound of leaf. Take the leaf and harvest all bud. Plant still makes the same weight total. Just like lollipopping doesn't take away weight, just distributes it towards the tip of the branch where the plant has an easier time growing then down low.
First, learn how to spell and form proper sentences, BEFORE you try telling us how intelligent you are. You lose a lot of credibility if you can't even spell.
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
First, learn how to spell and form proper sentences, BEFORE you try telling us how intelligent you are. You lose a lot of credibility if you can't even spell.
Those that point out grammar, spelling and punctuation have lost the argument already. So I stone type on a iPad. I don't proff read. Sorry your so sensitive to it like a bitch..
 

DarthBlazeAnthony

Well-Known Member
View attachment 3263414 View attachment 3263418

very lightly, ill chop here and there as i go instead of just lopping off 50% at once just take a leaf here and there if its too crowded until it starts lookin real clean then ease up but it just depends on how your growing ive done 50% lops in the past with little ill effect its kinda strain dependent too. if your growing a purple urkle clone or a cross of urk then i would never suggest taking too much off at once (shits supe slow) but this strain shoots up fast so lopping is fine.
I believe your plants stretched a great deal. Did you consider scrogging?
 
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