Lighting for Mothers

I picked up a decently sized tent to replace my small veg box/create room to house mothers. My vision for this space is mothers on one side and vegging plants/cuttings on the other. I have a 6 bulb T5 from my old veg space currently setup on the 'veg side' of the tent.

So my question is, what would provide sufficient and even lighting for 6-8 mothers? I would imagine a fixture such as my T5 would provide uneven lighting, as these girls are sure to grow at different heights. Maybe there is a single CFL fixture option available. I could run a few of those, but I can't find info on the ideal CFL wattage for mothers, or even how many would be sufficient (one per plant necessary?). I doubt CFLs above a large mother will be enough to reach those lower branches.

I have a 600w hps/mh setup hanging around. I have heard MH is great for growing mothers and could effectively provide for different sized canopies, but I would like to avoid that unless a fluorescent option exceeded 600w. That might also require a fan for heat control (further spiking wattage), which will not be necessary with cooler running bulbs.

Yes LED would be the most ideal, but the price tag is not.. Certainly a great investment, but not feesible at the moment. Someday..

Slightly unrelated side question, should mothers be topped?

Any input is appreciated.

a t5 can do 2 maybe 3 mothers a 6 bulb 4 foot set up ...............6 bulb 2 foot set up u are looking at 1 good one maybe 2 decent ones


for 6 mothers yes the MH 600w in a cooltube is your best chocice

justugh said:

a t5 can do 2 maybe 3 mothers a 6 bulb 4 foot set up ...............6 bulb 2 foot set up u are looking at 1 good one maybe 2 decent ones


for 6 mothers yes the MH 600w in a cooltube is your best chocice

Click to expand...

I have no experience with MH bulbs, can I expect heat production similar to an HPS?

Tranquileyes said:

I have no experience with MH bulbs, can I expect heat production similar to an HPS?

Click to expand...

MH is alot less IR and heat then HPS

it is about the same tho.............u turn it on 2 mins and it at full power.........if u need to turn it off u wait 10 to 15 mins before u relight it (do not turn off and 45secs later turn on does damage)

MH bulb is somewhere in the 35-40% IR range (that is what makes u feel the heat on skin) a HPS is in the range of 70% iIR

justugh said:

MH is alot less IR and heat then HPS

it is about the same tho.............u turn it on 2 mins and it at full power.........if u need to turn it off u wait 10 to 15 mins before u relight it (do not turn off and 45secs later turn on does damage)

MH bulb is somewhere in the 35-40% IR range (that is what makes u feel the heat on skin) a HPS is in the range of 70% iIR

Click to expand...

Ah gotcha, thanks for the explaination.

I really didn't want to put that kind of cash into this setup at the moment, mostly because my flower can use some upgrades which might be a more worthy investment, offering a greater return..

I feel like as though it would be unwise to pay for the energy involved in running a 600w + fan 18-24hrs a day, versus grabbing a few LED's and eating the cost up front.. you seem to be quite knowledgable in regard to lighting, an area in which I am completely ignorant, so maybe this isnt a 1+1=2 type of situation, so please don't hesitate to tell me if my logic is flawed.

Do you have any thoughts on several independant 4' T5's/T8's suspended above the plant canopies?

Tranquileyes said:

Ah gotcha, thanks for the explaination.

I really didn't want to put that kind of cash into this setup at the moment, mostly because my flower can use some upgrades which might be a more worthy investment, offering a greater return..

I feel like as though it would be unwise to pay for the energy involved in running a 600w + fan 18-24hrs a day, versus grabbing a few LED's and eating the cost up front.. you seem to be quite knowledgable in regard to lighting, an area in which I am completely ignorant, so maybe this isnt a 1+1=2 type of situation, so please don't hesitate to tell me if my logic is flawed.

Do you have any thoughts on several independant 4' T5's/T8's suspended above the plant canopies?

Click to expand...

i only know from the exps i have run here i started with CFLs and T5s .........moved to Hids and Leds

4 foot bulbs are good ............the bulbs are 5000 lumens each and u have a choice of 5 different kinds to use 2 made for growth 2 for flower and a UV bulb
for the plants to grow they needs a min of 15 000 (for decent growth) for crazy growth u want something in the range of 100,000 to 150,000 lumens


with the MH bulb and a cool tube the fan fills 2 parts ...........1 it removes the heat made by the light ........2 it replaces the air in the tent (u already have to do this i seen a direct link between air flow amount and over all amount of ending with ) buddy did the same strain ,feed,light,soil,water timetable as me i pulled 4 oz off my plant he only got 1 and half .............the only different was the air flow his was replaced tha air once every 4 mins mine replaces every 30 secs in veggie and 17-20 secs in my flowering tent ..............my starting tent is like once every 10 secs

justugh said:

i only know from the exps i have run here i started with CFLs and T5s .........moved to Hids and Leds

4 foot bulbs are good ............the bulbs are 5000 lumens each and u have a choice of 5 different kinds to use 2 made for growth 2 for flower and a UV bulb
for the plants to grow they needs a min of 15 000 (for decent growth) for crazy growth u want something in the range of 100,000 to 150,000 lumens


with the MH bulb and a cool tube the fan fills 2 parts ...........1 it removes the heat made by the light ........2 it replaces the air in the tent (u already have to do this i seen a direct link between air flow amount and over all amount of ending with ) buddy did the same strain ,feed,light,soil,water timetable as me i pulled 4 oz off my plant he only got 1 and half .............the only different was the air flow his was replaced tha air once every 4 mins mine replaces every 30 secs in veggie and 17-20 secs in my flowering tent ..............my starting tent is like once every 10 secs

Click to expand...

For the time being, I will grow out my mothers alongside my vegging plants under the t5 fixture and see how that goes. I culled a few under performers yesterday so I now have room to do so.

As for the air flow, here's the thing.... I know it probably shouldn't be done for cross contamination reasons, but when I setup the tent I realized my flower room exhaust ducting was right above one of the tents vent holes. Just for the fuck of it, I stuck the exhaust duct into the tent's vent hole, figuring it might serve as a temporary ventilation system to prevent stale air. Enough airflow was created to feel more than sufficient pressure coming out of the tents exhaust. Might I add that my flower room is equipped with a very intense carbon filter and a fan that clears the room out several times a minute, the tent is about half the size. I'm not too worried about cross contamination because the air is pulled into the flower room through a filtered opening using negative pressure, which happens to be within feet of the tent.. and as mentioned it is filtered once more on the way out of the room, the air being in the flower room no longer than 15-30 seconds, so I see no harm in that. I've also observed that the controlled temp in my flower room is transferred to the tent, that could mean a great savings in the colder months if the heat is transferred as well.

Anyways, that was a great experiment you and your buddy conducted, its good to know my overkill of a fan might not be a waste after all! Thanks for all the information!

Tranquileyes said:

For the time being, I will grow out my mothers alongside my vegging plants under the t5 fixture and see how that goes. I culled a few under performers yesterday so I now have room to do so.

As for the air flow, here's the thing.... I know it probably shouldn't be done for cross contamination reasons, but when I setup the tent I realized my flower room exhaust ducting was right above one of the tents vent holes. Just for the fuck of it, I stuck the exhaust duct into the tent's vent hole, figuring it might serve as a temporary ventilation system to prevent stale air. Enough airflow was created to feel more than sufficient pressure coming out of the tents exhaust. Might I add that my flower room is equipped with a very intense carbon filter and a fan that clears the room out several times a minute, the tent is about half the size. I'm not too worried about cross contamination because the air is pulled into the flower room through a filtered opening using negative pressure, which happens to be within feet of the tent.. and as mentioned it is filtered once more on the way out of the room, the air being in the flower room no longer than 15-30 seconds, so I see no harm in that. I've also observed that the controlled temp in my flower room is transferred to the tent, that could mean a great savings in the colder months if the heat is transferred as well.

Anyways, that was a great experiment you and your buddy conducted, its good to know my overkill of a fan might not be a waste after all! Thanks for all the information!

Click to expand...

well i made this for myself but i been telling ppl about it might help u
powered intake filter box .............just make sure u get a lvl 10 filter pollen smoke mold virus all that stuff is cleaned out

like u said u tied into yours i did the same thing ..........,my veggie tent is running off a intake filter box the top of the tent i ran 6 inch ducting to the flowering tent and a second 6 inch ducting to the intake of the AC (that is in my window )

the veggie tent runs a positive pressure ................the flowering tent has a filter box too but since the power on the exhaust is double that speed it alls sucks some air out of the veggie tent ..............what ever the veggie tent can not pass to flowering is dumped out infront of the AC intake

i did this because i use Co2 from mash buckets............with that over powered system the CO2 is not all getting used up from the time in the tent so it dumps into the flowering tent and into the main air of the room to increase the usefulness (during our test run i did not brew for 2 months but i had 6 gallons of shine for july 4 so did not need too )

justugh said:

MH is alot less IR and heat then HPS

it is about the same tho.............u turn it on 2 mins and it at full power.........if u need to turn it off u wait 10 to 15 mins before u relight it (do not turn off and 45secs later turn on does damage)

MH bulb is somewhere in the 35-40% IR range (that is what makes u feel the heat on skin) a HPS is in the range of 70% iIR

Click to expand...

Are you sure that the MH bubs create less heat, than the hps? I've never read any factual information on it, but I always FELT that it was hotter, maybe because the bulb is bigger? Or the aforementioned infrared heat? And for the record, i'm not arguing, I just thought the MH was a less efficient bulb in converting energy into lumens as opposed to BTUs.
I absolutely LOVE using a 2/1 ratio of hps bulbs to MH, though, the mixed spectrum makes the biggest difference (plus the extra UV). And I'm a firm believer that a MH helps "prepare" the plants for the higher lumens of the flowering lamps, than a t5 does, always seems to have bigger stems and less space between nodes. I wouldn't change my MHs for the world, I consider it my "secret" weapon, some of my buddies have the same strains as I do, and I swear they look totally different at the end. Now... granted I'm solely organic also, so the difference is substantial, organics+soil &mixed HPS/MH lamps, and you could see why it looks so different. They are hydro guys with typical 1000w HPS setups...

greasemonkeymann said:

Are you sure that the MH bubs create less heat, than the hps? I've never read any factual information on it, but I always FELT that it was hotter, maybe because the bulb is bigger? Or the aforementioned infrared heat? And for the record, i'm not arguing, I just thought the MH was a less efficient bulb in converting energy into lumens as opposed to BTUs.
I absolutely LOVE using a 2/1 ratio of hps bulbs to MH, though, the mixed spectrum makes the biggest difference (plus the extra UV). And I'm a firm believer that a MH helps "prepare" the plants for the higher lumens of the flowering lamps, than a t5 does, always seems to have bigger stems and less space between nodes. I wouldn't change my MHs for the world, I consider it my "secret" weapon, some of my buddies have the same strains as I do, and I swear they look totally different at the end. Now... granted I'm solely organic also, so the difference is substantial, organics+soil &mixed HPS/MH lamps, and you could see why it looks so different. They are hydro guys with typical 1000w HPS setups...

Click to expand...

yes sir i am 100% positive that MH makes less heat/ IR then a hps

IR is inferred light .............that is in the spec of a HPS ..............but MH they are lower then that they are in a blue range with only a little in the IR spec

if u want a weapon i know of 10k lights they are UV and deep blue for finishing off the plants
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh10k.html

that is made to finish them off and make the resin glands swell up before u cut them ..............but it is very high in UV so if u need to work in the area u need glasses to protect your eyes otherwise u will be blind in a few years


here is the MH
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh6k.html

here is the HPS
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/hps.html


u can look at the graphs and see what i am talking about ................heck the only reason u feel heat from a LED is because they put IR leds in the system

justugh said:

yes sir i am 100% positive that MH makes less heat/ IR then a hps

IR is inferred light .............that is in the spec of a HPS ..............but MH they are lower then that they are in a blue range with only a little in the IR spec

if u want a weapon i know of 10k lights they are UV and deep blue for finishing off the plants
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh10k.html

that is made to finish them off and make the resin glands swell up before u cut them ..............but it is very high in UV so if u need to work in the area u need glasses to protect your eyes otherwise u will be blind in a few years


here is the MH
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh6k.html

here is the HPS
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/hps.html


u can look at the graphs and see what i am talking about ................heck the only reason u feel heat from a LED is because they put IR leds in the system

Click to expand...

Slightly unrelated, but do you know how bad are HPS lights for your eyes?

greasemonkeymann said:

Are you sure that the MH bubs create less heat, than the hps? I've never read any factual information on it, but I always FELT that it was hotter, maybe because the bulb is bigger? Or the aforementioned infrared heat? And for the record, i'm not arguing, I just thought the MH was a less efficient bulb in converting energy into lumens as opposed to BTUs.
I absolutely LOVE using a 2/1 ratio of hps bulbs to MH, though, the mixed spectrum makes the biggest difference (plus the extra UV). And I'm a firm believer that a MH helps "prepare" the plants for the higher lumens of the flowering lamps, than a t5 does, always seems to have bigger stems and less space between nodes. I wouldn't change my MHs for the world, I consider it my "secret" weapon, some of my buddies have the same strains as I do, and I swear they look totally different at the end. Now... granted I'm solely organic also, so the difference is substantial, organics+soil &mixed HPS/MH lamps, and you could see why it looks so different. They are hydro guys with typical 1000w HPS setups...

Click to expand...

Organics is the secret weapon

But seriously, lighting is the one aspect of growing that gives me an instant migraine, but you guys are certainly helping me gain an understanding, and for that I am quite thankful

Greasemonkey, I've heard great things about vegging and maintaining mothers under MH to maintain tight internodes, plus the more flexible distance from the canopy/penetration to the lower branches is very appealing to me.

I think ill keep my T5 setup going until I run a pack or two and find some keeper moms, then I'll pick up a MH bulb and put that spare hood collecting dust to good use. It seems like I might be able to run my ducting from my room to my tent, saving some cash that would be spent operating an additional fan. How many watts is the MH setup you're running?

Tranquileyes said:

Slightly unrelated, but do you know how bad are HPS lights for your eyes?

Click to expand...

it depends on who the bulb maker is ...............the ones i linked u are the New digital pulse bulbs they have a higher lumen output and the glass is a lower iron to change the lightwaves some

u are talking to a redneck kid i can not rem how many times brother and i had a sun contest (who can look at the sun longest with out blinking) .......last time i had it check it was 20/40 (but one eye had cleaner sprayed in it)

Tranquileyes said:

Organics is the secret weapon


I think ill keep my T5 setup going until I run a pack or two and find some keeper moms, then I'll pick up a MH bulb and put that spare hood collecting dust to good use. It seems like I might be able to run my ducting from my room to my tent, saving some cash that would be spent operating an additional fan. How many watts is the MH setup you're running?

Click to expand...

no organics only help some ........... when u flip into heavy flowering chemical feed like tigerbloom and beastiebloom are the shit .............
hell i have that ideal420 soil all organic all made for weed .............i got 5 and half oz off it just watering .........this one i been feeding at least a HP it has a 3 more weeks but it is huge bud sites all over and even some of the branching did this split thing near the tops for 2 sets of buds

the only organics i am willing to say u need is MIcbros and Fungi ..........those u can supply with items designed to add those (if u need names tell me)

as for MH light .................at one point i had a 4x4 tent with a 1 MH 600w and 1 HPS 600w..........same tent same time

i use that 1000 w 10k MH for mine now to push the resins in the end when i am feeding it cha ching

Tranquileyes said:

Organics is the secret weapon

But seriously, lighting is the one aspect of growing that gives me an instant migraine, but you guys are certainly helping me gain an understanding, and for that I am quite thankful

Greasemonkey, I've heard great things about vegging and maintaining mothers under MH to maintain tight internodes, plus the more flexible distance from the canopy/penetration to the lower branches is very appealing to me.

I think ill keep my T5 setup going until I run a pack or two and find some keeper moms, then I'll pick up a MH bulb and put that spare hood collecting dust to good use. It seems like I might be able to run my ducting from my room to my tent, saving some cash that would be spent operating an additional fan. How many watts is the MH setup you're running?

Click to expand...

my veg setup is simply a 400w magnetic ballast. but my flowering MH is a 600w digital, mixed with two 600 w HPS

justugh said:

yes sir i am 100% positive that MH makes less heat/ IR then a hps

IR is inferred light .............that is in the spec of a HPS ..............but MH they are lower then that they are in a blue range with only a little in the IR spec

if u want a weapon i know of 10k lights they are UV and deep blue for finishing off the plants
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh10k.html

that is made to finish them off and make the resin glands swell up before u cut them ..............but it is very high in UV so if u need to work in the area u need glasses to protect your eyes otherwise u will be blind in a few years


here is the MH
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh6k.html

here is the HPS
http://www.solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/hps.html


u can look at the graphs and see what i am talking about ................heck the only reason u feel heat from a LED is because they put IR leds in the system

Click to expand...

Awesome information, my friend, i'll look into the deep blue bulb, as my normal maintenance I have a 15 min overlap where my main lights are off, but I have a florescent primarily to see where i'm watering, my lights are on while I sleep, and before work each day I do my maintenance with that overlap time. Works perfect it's right before I go to work.
Thank you for your knowledge on the subject, i'm going to do some research...

greasemonkeymann said:

Awesome information, my friend, i'll look into the deep blue bulb, as my normal maintenance I have a 15 min overlap where my main lights are off, but I have a florescent primarily to see where i'm watering, my lights are on while I sleep, and before work each day I do my maintenance with that overlap time. Works perfect it's right before I go to work.
Thank you for your knowledge on the subject, i'm going to do some research...

Click to expand...

u know about the worklight ................use a green bulb ............it is outside the range that the plant can use (that and all the light is reflected off the leaf as it is green and so the light)

when u turn the lights off u can use the green light to see and it will not effect the plant (photos and light leaks this is a work around so u can work during the off hours in flowering )

the last thing i got to share is the red flash ............when the sun sets in the sky that last few mins of light before it is gone for the day is called the red flash it triggers the plant to go into rest mode................as we do not use it when we kill the lights it can take up to a hour or so for the plant to change over but the redflash triggers the changes ..............it been while since i read about this i think it is 720nm or 770nm

Tranquileyes said:

I picked up a decently sized tent to replace my small veg box/create room to house mothers. My vision for this space is mothers on one side and vegging plants/cuttings on the other. I have a 6 bulb T5 from my old veg space currently setup on the 'veg side' of the tent.

So my question is, what would provide sufficient and even lighting for 6-8 mothers? I would imagine a fixture such as my T5 would provide uneven lighting, as these girls are sure to grow at different heights. Maybe there is a single CFL fixture option available. I could run a few of those, but I can't find info on the ideal CFL wattage for mothers, or even how many would be sufficient (one per plant necessary?). I doubt CFLs above a large mother will be enough to reach those lower branches.

I have a 600w hps/mh setup hanging around. I have heard MH is great for growing mothers and could effectively provide for different sized canopies, but I would like to avoid that unless a fluorescent option exceeded 600w. That might also require a fan for heat control (further spiking wattage), which will not be necessary with cooler running bulbs.

Yes LED would be the most ideal, but the price tag is not.. Certainly a great investment, but not feesible at the moment. Someday..

Slightly unrelated side question, should mothers be topped?

Any input is appreciated.

Click to expand...

T5 is perfect, u can make mothers grow however u like man

justugh said:

u know about the worklight ................use a green bulb ............it is outside the range that the plant can use (that and all the light is reflected off the leaf as it is green and so the light)

when u turn the lights off u can use the green light to see and it will not effect the plant (photos and light leaks this is a work around so u can work during the off hours in flowering )

the last thing i got to share is the red flash ............when the sun sets in the sky that last few mins of light before it is gone for the day is called the red flash it triggers the plant to go into rest mode................as we do not use it when we kill the lights it can take up to a hour or so for the plant to change over but the redflash triggers the changes ..............it been while since i read about this i think it is 720nm or 770nm

Click to expand...

yeah I gotcha on the green light (its why plants are green, the only color reflected back to us)
Only thing is, it's hard to see anything...
Interesting information on the red flash though...

greasemonkeymann said:

yeah I gotcha on the green light (its why plants are green, the only color reflected back to us)
Only thing is, it's hard to see anything...
Interesting information on the red flash though...

Click to expand...

here is part of it
http://www.plantcell.org/content/18/4/792.full

here is more
http://www.photobiology.info/Shinkle.html

sorry it is all tech/geek stuff but it is the best way i know to pass the info along