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Light ???

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by RM3, Dec 11, 2014.

  1.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    This morning, I read this thread ,,,,

    http://www.rollitup.org/t/no-lower-budsites-do-not-need-light-to-develop-get-educated.829061/

    I wanted to post a response but couldn't because it had been locked.

    I decided to start a thread and see if a discussion could take place without the negative nonsense? IOW have a discussion that benefits growers and our gardens.

    If you remember when I was here as Riddleme, my pet peeve was lights and I pulled 2lbs from 4 plants with 2 400's. Now I flower with T5's and yeppers it's 1000 watts of T5's but still T5's and when I post I pretty much always have someone that says I should just get an HPS (which I would never do lol) I simply ignore it and move on. I understand why some like and use HPS, I understand that we as growers all have different methods and ways of doing things, different goals, different needs, hell it's kinda like just bein human.

    To be honest, I kinda enjoy reading the threads that go sideways as it can be entertaining as just an observer, not fun when your the poster and your intent gets stepped on so much I guess. I think a lot of us have been there. And yeppers, I like Uncle Ben, he is a gruffy old dude but he knows his shit when it comes to plants and I well know there are some that disagree with that but I also am guilty of posting in threads to try and protect or steer new growers in a more sane direction. IMO once you move beyond new grower status, you should start experimentin with things and see for yourself. Much like I did in a thread here where defoil was concerned, I took 3 clones (same plant) and removed all the fans on one, some fans on one and no fans on one. The one with no fans removed yielded the most and the one with all fans removed yielded the least. I moved on. I didn't prove anything IMO and I wasted a couple ounces of yield but I saw for myself and have not done it since. With that said, I still tell new growers to do it and see for themselves, because that is what should be happening, it's how we learn.

    The problem with light is most do not seem to understand it. You have the Inverse square law driving a point that is moot and you have the more light is better (it's not) you have the get it closer and even cool it to get it even closer nonsense. When it is the other things in your garden that make a bigger difference. The truth is the plant can only use so much light and then it stops. Google Mid day depression in plants and read up on it. I, the guy flowering with T5's actually have 1/2 hour of darkness interrupt my light schedule after the lights have been on for 6.5 hours to give the plants a break and thwart the effects of mid day depression. I have it because I keep my canopy at 89 ~ 92 degrees while my ambient room temp is 77 ~ 84 (the minor fluctuations are seasonal) I learned a long time ago that heat is your friend if you use it properly and the high canopy temp mimics what happens outdoors under the sun. There is also a way to adjust temp and humidity to put the plants in a condition where they grow their collective asses off, but rather than learn these things and make adjustments, most simply add more light and fight with heat? I have never understood this which I suppose is why it has been a pet peeve lol.

    As to the post I wanted to make in UB's thread that was locked, I am sharing a pic of popcorn that is over 3 feet from the closest T5 bulbs and is under leafs and is thriving. Nice and dense and covered in trics and my point is,,,,, if your garden is tweaked properly penetration is not an issue, less light is actually better and the end product is better as well. Light is simply one of many elements/tools in our gardens that we have control over (unlike outdoors).

    I hope that we can now have a discussion about it and that those participating and reading this will have a chance to learn a thing or 3 :) S_SAM_3308.JPG ctfwk91a.jpg
     
    Worcester, NewI, maxamus1 and 40 others like this.
  2.  
    a senile fungus

    a senile fungus Well-Known Member

    Do you have any issues with bud density using the T5s?

    When I grew with fluoros my buds were not that dense but the strain was finicky and other things in the grow weren't ideal.

    I was planning on firing up those fluoros this week to see if they still work...
     
  3.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    None, my buds are dense and I get big colas, it really is the sum of all parts, not just the lights that make it come together
     
  4.  
    mudballs

    mudballs Well-Known Member

    i love your comment on the 6.5 hr break and may have learned something already. will check later. as for light requirements for popcorn buds as i understand it plants can move nutrients around (translocation). its safe to say a fruiting portion (sink) isn't using photosynthesis to grow. so where does this lead us?
     
  5.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    Hopefully into understanding things better so all of us can get the very most/best out of our gardens
     
  6.  
    genuity

    genuity ambition

    Full plant pic,if you can?

    image.jpg
    Lights are the biggest part of my grow.
     
  7.  
    mudballs

    mudballs Well-Known Member

    sorry i meant something else. what is next in the pyramid of importance after light, considering we determine fruiting portions don't use photosynthesis to grow. they aren't directly photosynthesizing.take photosynthesis out of the equation as a given. we obviously have that covered.where would that lead us in the investigation.
     
    Dogenzengi likes this.
  8.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    I don't take a lot of of whole plant shots but I have a few, these are my own CTF strain same as the popcorns above,,,
    S_SAM_2532.JPG
     
    Worcester, NewI, mypassion and 20 others like this.
  9.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    What are we investigating? not sure I'm following. I would put temp & humidity above light in importance of tweaking but light is very much needed, I simply don't consider it the #1 item in terms of tools to use to improve. However I use T5's so I can tweak the spectrum and have it be nothing but what plants require
     
  10.  
    mudballs

    mudballs Well-Known Member

    Light is simply one of many elements/tools in our gardens that we have control over (unlike outdoors).

    I hope that we can now have a discussion about it

    we are now 'investigating' the other important tools we have control over.temp and humidity above light? hmm.ok if
    1)temp/humidity-ideal
    2)light-ideal
    what's next? and define those ideal parameters. or would you like me to just leave?
     
  11.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    Why would I want you to leave?

    next would be nutes and water, givin the plants what they need/want when they need/want it. this can be subjective because we all have different water and there are tons of nutes that could be used

    But each of these can be divided in sub catagories like temp includes rootzone temp, canopy temp, ambient temp etc
     
  12.  
    mudballs

    mudballs Well-Known Member

    well to tweak something we do need baseline levels and we know they are interlinked, changing one moves the baseline of 1 or more other parameters.i like that you mentioned separation of rootzone and canopy temps. we know the ideal range for canopy with/without co2 and whatnot. what i would like to talk about now is rootzone ideal temp and tweaking.you touched on something i could surely use more knowledge on.
     
  13.  
    racerboy71

    racerboy71 bud bootlegger

    i'd be interested in hearing more about using high canopy temps to get larger, better growth if you'd be so kind
     
  14.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    I like my rootzone in the 60's, my ambient in the 70's and my canopy in the 90's

    I use heat index to determine humidity, I like my heat index to be 4 points above ambient

    I don't adjust lights by the temp or heat rather I adjust the light height to how the plants respond.

    Some of this is moot as most growers don't have open rooms (I do) I am very aware that plants respond to barometric pressure and a sealed room with in/out fans defeats this

    I am also aware that growers do this because of smell, my plants never stink while growing (unless there is something wrong) so I have never owned a scrubber.

    But I did not wanna make this about how "I" grow lol
     
  15.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    merely replicating what happens outdoors, as example if the outside temp is 82 and you go stand in the sun it will feel hotter, if you put a thermometer on your arm in the sun it will read higher that the reported ambient temp of the day. If you ride a bike in the sun your exposed arms could easily get a sunburn and you might not notice it because of the wind cooling your arms as you ride. These are all things I consider when I tweak my garden. The breeze we create with fans needs to be just right as well, to much and the plants don't respond properly to the heat, to little we have stress. I tweak my garden for no stress and observable vigorous growth, which is evidenced by a relaxed look and a lighter green growth pattern in the leaves, The bigger the vigor circle the bigger the plants get.
     
  16.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

  17.  
    mudballs

    mudballs Well-Known Member

    oh man i can see why a lot of growers just stop studying and just do what others do when they tell them how they grow.
    http://m.pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/2/241.full
    controlling (or attempting to) stomatal opening, transpiration..co2 levels..K uptake....what a headache inducing rabbit hole. too low a temp closes stomata entering a chain reaction. too high a temp has the same effect

    journal pdf on oak stomata
    heres something i found interesting. in the chart they state they found maximum K intake at 40c..thats 104f! so there may be another 10degrees to play with rm3 during flowering...given we have the adequate supporting co2.man i don't have enough money or room to do what i want to do when it comes to growing ganja.so i rely on others and just do it.playing with such extremes takes talent
     
  18.  
    RM3

    RM3 Well-Known Member

    It can get very expensive and very addicting lol you can actually drive yourself nuts with all the data out there, why I just go by how they look and respond
     
    mypassion, haight, ky man and 5 others like this.
  19.  
    cannawizard

    cannawizard AMC Mod

    ..thanks for the info, mid day depression was a good read from the various univ horti sites, learned something new today :)
     
  20.  
    Uncle Ben

    Uncle Ben Well-Known Member

    You also need to add about 3" more soil to that pot.

    Light intensity should be adjusted according to a plant's light saturation point. A very important concept that is NEVER discussed in forums with the exception of me bringing it up now and then.

    Like Riddle said, it's the sum of the parts.
     
    NewI, mypassion, Dogenzengi and 9 others like this.

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