Light change :-)

McFrosticles said:

I live in rented apartments built about 150 years ago I'm not sure what sort of permission I'd need or if it's even possible, My intake comes from ambient temps of 17Celcius summer and -10-5Celcius all winter so not sure it would make a difference where I am!

Click to expand...

You might slow down your intake, then. HPS and all other HID lamps are inefficient, wear out and need replacing often and offer poor spectrum performance relative to the plant's demonstrated needs.

LED really is THAT much better. If your grow is small compared to the space it's in, then perhaps a smaller space or a tent would help.

The plants need to be warm one way or another.

hillbill said:

Modern led alternatives are much less money for much more and better quality light than even a few years ago.

Click to expand...

And a few years from now those will be crap just like the blurples that use to be state-of-the-art.

A lot of growers are like iPhone junkies. Lining up for the next great thing no matter the cost.

I'm thinking of building a DIY COB system one of these days but if I wait a little longer I'm sure there will be even better lights around the corner.

OldMedUser said:

And a few years from now those will be crap just like the blurples that use to be state-of-the-art.

A lot of growers are like iPhone junkies. Lining up for the next great thing no matter the cost.

I'm thinking of building a DIY COB system one of these days but if I wait a little longer I'm sure there will be even better lights around the corner.

Click to expand...

Whatever you build today will still work just as well when the next greatest thing comes out.

ttystikk said:

You might slow down your intake, then. HPS and all other HID lamps are inefficient, wear out and need replacing often and offer poor spectrum performance relative to the plant's demonstrated needs.

LED really is THAT much better. If your grow is small compared to the space it's in, then perhaps a smaller space or a tent would help.

The plants need to be warm one way or another.

Click to expand...

I built 10 bars of 4 cxb3590s a couple of years ago, getting the components from kinbrite, for a 10x5" space. But life got in the way and couldn't do the grow, I was able to sell them on ebay at the time for a decent profit, do wish I held on to them now. I am aware of the efficiency compared to HPS but I just needed something quick and hassle free, maybe looking back to cob or QB in the future.

But I have to say I've been able to enjoy the grow under hps and let the plants grow pretty natural at varying heights after flipping them without the constant training an led scrog requires, can also take each plant out and muck around bend parts down, spread them out, get in the back etc. Its a bit of a jungle and each plant is now stacking pretty deep

But when you mention how LED perform better in 30 Celcius it got me wondering if it's worth it in my cold climate. I suppose gas is cheaper than electricity so overall heating the room would be cheaper than getting heat from the hps, but then there's the air exchange.. lot to think about.

McFrosticles said:

I built 10 bars of 4 cxb3590s a couple of years ago, getting the components from kinbrite, for a 10x5" space. But life got in the way and couldn't do the grow, I was able to sell them on ebay at the time for a decent profit, do wish I held on to them now. I am aware of the efficiency compared to HPS but I just needed something quick and hassle free, maybe looking back to cob or QB in the future.

But I have to say I've been able to enjoy the grow under hps and let the plants grow pretty natural at varying heights after flipping them without the constant training an led scrog requires, can also take each plant out and muck around bend parts down, spread them out, get in the back etc. Its a bit of a jungle and each plant is now stacking pretty deep

But when you mention how LED perform better in 30 Celcius it got me wondering if it's worth it in my cold climate. I suppose gas is cheaper than electricity so overall heating the room would be cheaper than getting heat from the hps, but then there's the air exchange.. lot to think about.

Click to expand...

Just insulate. You'll get the best of both worlds.

ttystikk said:

Whatever you build today will still work just as well when the next greatest thing comes out.

Click to expand...

Exactly right! My lights even include mostly white and all white old a51 panels with discreet Cree diodes. Obsolete but still damn effective and my newest COBs fixture is 3 years old. They all work like day 1 with zero trouble and have saved hundreds in electricity and no bulb replacement.

Those Philips 315 CMH are always tempting though, don’t know why they just are.

hillbill said:

Exactly right! My lights even include mostly white and all white old a51 panels with discreet Cree diodes. Obsolete but still damn effective and my newest COBs fixture is 3 years old. They all work like day 1 with zero trouble and have saved hundreds in electricity and no bulb replacement.

Those Philips 315 CMH are always tempting though, don’t know why they just are.

Click to expand...

Don't be tempted. They don't put out UV like people say they do.

ttystikk said:

The key to using light sources that emit less heat- that is, infrared light- is to run your grow room at warmer temperatures. The LED guys get their best results with ambient air temps around 30C/86F.

This is no longer news or in any way controversial.

Click to expand...

Sorry that is not right, warm air does not supplement ir on leaf energy budget - again you led peeps need to do actual science not broscience.

Id say prove it and provide a leaf energy budget and transpirational curve to represent your new equations and science? Ill be waiting just like i did with PPFD and drying and curing and all the stuff no one seems to really study

I love my 4 ft 4 bulb HO T5. I use it for seedling through veg. Plants do great. I get plants over two feet tall and not leggy at all. It fits perfectly in a 2 x 4 tent. I know the latest fad is to buy the latest expensive LED but I don't follow fads. I grow marijuana. The equipment I have does a damn fine job of assisting me with that task. I'm more interested in acquiring rare strains, hobby breeding, and automating my grow as much as possible so I can use the time some spend fiddling around with their plants for other things.

Grown under T5's




As you were...

LED all the way for me, UFO on seedlings getting air root pruned and then under a Budmaster G.O.D.

hillbill said:

Those Philips 315 CMH are always tempting though, don’t know why they just are.

Click to expand...

Until you have to replace a bulb.. £92 for me over here.
Lesson learned though, don't lend out your equipment.

ttystikk said:

Whatever you build today will still work just as well when the next greatest thing comes out.

Click to expand...

My HID grows just as good of pot as the LED's coming out. So I agree, whatever you have will still work when the next thing comes out.

Kingrow1 said:

Sorry that is not right, warm air does not supplement ir on leaf energy budget - again you led peeps need to do actual science not broscience.

Id say prove it and provide a leaf energy budget and transpirational curve to represent your new equations and science? Ill be waiting just like i did with PPFD and drying and curing and all the stuff no one seems to really study

Click to expand...

Warmth reduces RH, increases metabolism and improves transpiration. Thus it does indeed accomplish the same thing as infrared light, with the possible exception of Emerson effect.

xtsho said:

My HID grows just as good of pot as the LED's coming out. So I agree, whatever you have will still work when the next thing comes out.

Click to expand...

I used to think that until I did side by side comparisons.

Best to consider temp in containers also.

ttystikk said:

Better yet, insulate.

Click to expand...

I have insulated the walls I made sadly the ceiling is low so I dont really know how much I could get away with on the floor and one wall is brick/stone foundation and I dont think I should put anything over that in risk of having condensation between the foundation and my wall and then grow mold.

meangreengrowinmachine said:

I have insulated the walls I made sadly the ceiling is low so I dont really know how much I could get away with on the floor and one wall is brick/stone foundation and I dont think I should put anything over that in risk of having condensation between the foundation and my wall and then grow mold.

Click to expand...

Vapor barrier. A layer of plastic works fine.

The idea is to be able to get full control over your environment.

ttystikk said:

Vapor barrier. A layer of plastic works fine.

The idea is to be able to get full control over your environment.

Click to expand...

True true, I may just have to give that a try. Thanks!

Kingrow1 said:

Sorry that is not right, warm air does not supplement ir on leaf energy budget - again you led peeps need to do actual science not broscience.

Id say prove it and provide a leaf energy budget and transpirational curve to represent your new equations and science? Ill be waiting just like i did with PPFD and drying and curing and all the stuff no one seems to really study

Click to expand...

It's not about IR supplementation, it's about leaf surface temp.

The blue spectrum keeps stomata open, which in turn, increases transpiration and respiration. The warmer air is to increase lst to boost photosynthesis to match transpiration and respiration rates... hence the "calmag" issue with most LED/QB grows.

ttystikk said:

I used to think that until I did side by side comparisons.

Click to expand...

Oh well, that may be true but I'm completely satisfied with what I'm using. I have no need to spend hundreds or over a thousand dollars to get slightly better results than I am already getting. I'm more interested in the plant than the light. Maybe I could get another ounce or so out of a grow which I doubt. The fact is that I just don't care. I'm more interested in the plant science than lighting technology. But I understand those that that want to maximize every aspect. But from a lot of what I've seen on the forums, some are more interested in playing with lighting than growing plants. It's gotten to the point that people post pictures of crappy looking plants and everyone says "Looking Good" when the plants are crispy and over fertilized. And the things that have become commonplace that have no merit like checking soil runoff pH, flushing, etc... All a waste of time as far as I'm concerned but someone saw an infomercial from some dude on youtube that said to flush with X product blah blah blah. I'm just going to do my thing and source and save hard to find landraces, make crosses, share with my friends and spend as little money doing it as I can. If others want to spend thousands on lights, nutrients, seeds of the latest strains then that is their choice. But there is no way I'm getting my wallet sucked into this money grubbing industry. Someone posted a link where they were selling clones for up to $2000. That's just plain bullshit and anyone paying that is crazy as far as I'm concerned. Just like I think it's crazy to spend $1500 for enough LED lighting for a 4 x 4 tent but some people do.

Anyway, I probably don't really belong in some sections of this forum so I'll probably just post in the Advanced and Gardening sections where most talk is about the plant or plants from now on as it seems I'm on a different path than many. I'd much rather talk about the plant and it's propagation, making seeds and crosses than lighting spectrum's, diodes, and overpriced nutrients.

I'm not taking jab at you. So please don't take it that way. Just ranting.