Liberals Hate Success

CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Deciding how much money a PRIVATE person makes is a slippery slope. This is already been picked up upon by the govt. and it should worry you to no end.

Your salary is between you and ur employer ... and NO ONE ELSE.

It's just ANOTHER method of creating class envy and creates a situation for SOMEONE OTHER THAN UR EMPLOYER deciding YOUR salary (the govt.)

Not GOOD>>>>
 
JustAnotherFriedDay

JustAnotherFriedDay

Well-Known Member
Heads Up said:
Success, what is it? My brother is successful, he and his wife live in a six thousand square foot house in one of the richest counties in the country, montgomery county pennsylvania. He has nice cars, nice clothes and enough money to not have to worry. He is successful in the way many people measure success, with material things. I on the other hand don't have near the house, cars or clothes he does, am I a failure? He's a republican, I am an independent.

With all his 'success', he thinks I have a much better grasp of what life is all about than he does. Maybe he's to insulated in his success? I work to live, I don't live to work. What good is all the money in the world if your obsession with money never really lets you enjoy what you have? Some of the most miserable people I know are 'successful' and have plenty of money.

I'm happy with me. I am less than two thousand dollars from outright owning my home, I don't have a car payment and I can sleep at night with a clear conscience knowing I haven't screwed anyone to get what I work for, he can't. He is a thief, a liar and is willing to screw his own family members to make more money. I remember a time we went golfing with a couple of our first cousins, one of which is wealthy, as in millions wealthy. My brother paid for the golf for all of us. When we were leaving I said to him, that was nice that you paid for all of us to golf. He laughed, he was doing some work for our wealthy cousin and said, I'm not paying, Bobby is paying, he just doesn't know it, I'll add it to his bill. If this is how people become successful, I want no part of that kind of success.
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quoted for fucking truth.
 
JustAnotherFriedDay

JustAnotherFriedDay

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
Deciding how much money a PRIVATE person makes is a slippery slope. This is already been picked up upon by the govt. and it should worry you to no end.

Your salary is between you and ur employer ... and NO ONE ELSE.

It's just ANOTHER method of creating class envy and creates a situation for SOMEONE OTHER THAN UR EMPLOYER deciding YOUR salary (the govt.)

Not GOOD>>>>
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very slippery, indeed. but their needs to be limits. without them, absolute chaos would be inevitable.

isn't there like 1.7 trillion in US cash flow? something like that. anyways, say 1.6 trillion of that belonged to 16 people and the other 300million got the other 100 billion dollars.

this is obviously an extreme but this is the road that a greed/power combination without limitations goes down.

living to work instead of working to live will create less fulfillment in life contrary to the latter which may seem like the evident choice for creating fulfillment. however, the only way to truly be fulfilled is to live as full open consciousness toward all experience.

living to work for yourself is crippling our economy and creates no fulfillment, so why do it?

living to work to help others does create fulfillment, but spending too much time on others can backfire.

i WORK for no other reason than to LIVE and LIVE for no other reason than to LOVE.
 
Heads Up

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
JustAnotherFriedDay said:
very slippery, indeed. but their needs to be limits. without them, absolute chaos would be inevitable.

isn't there like 1.7 trillion in US cash flow? something like that. anyways, say 1.6 trillion of that belonged to 16 people and the other 300million got the other 100 billion dollars.

this is obviously an extreme but this is the road that a greed/power combination without limitations goes down.

living to work instead of working to live will create less fulfillment in life contrary to the latter which may seem like the evident choice for creating fulfillment. however, the only way to truly be fulfilled is to live as full open consciousness toward all experience.

living to work for yourself is crippling our economy and creates no fulfillment, so why do it?

living to work to help others does create fulfillment, but spending too much time on others can backfire.

i WORK for no other reason than to LIVE and LIVE for no other reason than to LOVE.
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Amen! Well said.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
There is no chaos at all. there is only Govt. finger pointing telling you it's a problem.

Know who the problem was? the GOVT> that's who..... they pushed these bad loans. The banks followed along after much arguing (and rightfully so), but the govt. exerted political pressure onto the private sector to achieve a political goal (and votes). gee, what could possibly go wrong.

So when the entire thing collapsed (of course), the Govt. was the first one to start blaming others to deflect their part in it. It worked ... but it's still wrong.

by the wey, the govt. is still doing the very same thing again, and we will all pay for it ... again.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
The more I read through these threads the more evident it becomes that our schools are woefully inadequate. It seems as though few people understand even the most fundamental concepts of economics and what makes society function.

People seem to view government as mom and dad, and wealth as money handed out by mom and dad as if it was some national allowance. And of course mom and dad just go to the bank and get more money when they need it. And they view the concept of equality in the same way a child might think it is only fair for them to get as much allowance as their brothers and sisters.

Never mind the fact that incentive (greed if you will) is what drives people to make products and provide services. It is this endeavor that creates jobs and builds wealth not just for the owners but for all their employees and everyone everywhere along their chain of supply and in numerous other ways. Businesses use power sold by the power companies who employ people. They drive to and from work needing cars, gas, oil changes, tires, insurance, etc. They eat lunch at nearby business' creating jobs for those people, they buy office supplies creating jobs for those who work there. They require professional services such as lawyers and accountants. Specialized labor and the trade of such labor is one of the fundamental building blocks of all societies.

It is the free market that is responsible for everything good - even Government couldn't exist without it as it is funded by the free market. The answer to all economic problems is helping the free market grow. When Government gets involved we have to be careful not to inadvertently harm the market. This means not simply pulling a bunch of good sounding, over simplified ideas out of our ass and assume everything will just fall into place. The recent loan crisis and the economic collapse is a perfect example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The simple fact is that nobody truly understands the market fully, and when you don't understand something you don't monkey with it. Especially, when it is working well to begin with. Ronald Reagan said it best; "Government is not the answer to our problems, Government is the problem."
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
If you think greed is a good thing, your proirities are more fucked up than I thought.
 
Heads Up

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
If you think it isn't you are a true ignoramus. Greed is what makes the world go round.
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Really? All I can say is I'm glad I do not live in your world. Greed does not make the world go round', it corrupts everything it touches. Americans don't have a problem with a joe the plumber who actually starts at the bottom and WORKS his way to the top. We applaud those people. We americans, in general, do not like people who make money off of money and provide no service or product in return. Is a two billion dollar kickback for a forty one billion dollar contract 'good business' or is it simply greed at its basest form? This two billon kickback went to one person. Again I ask you, is it mr. and mrs. american with their hundred grand in their 401k that caused the crash of the markets and our economy, or was it the business world in their never ending pursuit of profits?

Why do you blame the government? George Bush stepped in and socialized the markets with his hundreds of billions bailout of wall street, he even sent you die hard republicans a tax rebate check which you gladly accepted with the rationalization it was your money. It wasn't, it was the feds, you accepted a welfare check.

Business and government have been holding hands since the beginnings of government. Nothing has changed.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
JustAnotherFriedDay said:
This is spot on. People deserve to be able to have a high quality standard of living...if they put in the work. People should be able to make a million a year (even that is pushing it)...but no one should be making 100s of millions. No one's standard of living is that high....I feel like I'd get bored of being so rich and want to come back to real life....so I'd give most of my money away.

Greedy fuckers sitting on 100s of millions is all that is stopping the elimination of poverty.

Bill gates alone could eliminate poverty...god damn.

The claim I am making here is greedy bastards need to pay their employees more and stop sitting on money they will never use.
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While I think your heart is in the right place, I'd have to disagree with your assessment of limiting what a person can make. Government messing with the free market has always brought dire consequences. The amount a person makes would not change the fact that a forced government redistribution is still theft. The scale of earnings is irrelevant, if it's not yours, you have no claim on it. When we ask government to decide what the limits of a persons earnings should be where do we stop? What other things would you ask government to arbitrate?

The term "enabling" is one that I am familiar with and think is appropriate when one person receives the benefits without doing the work. If Bill Gates was forced to give away his money, what kind of message would that send to somebody that is simply hoping to win the Bill Gates lottery? Would they think that somebody else "owes" them a living? It is not Bill Gates responsibility to take care of anyone nor is it the responsibility of a government to use force to redistribute wealth, although they seem to think it is. With that said I think charity is noble, but to make somebody give up their earnings for another is wrong. Yes, sometimes I am envious of people that have more than me, but that only proves I'm human.

Put it another way...you just had a wonderful harvest of primo bud and the guy next door that is always mooching weed didn't do shit. Do you owe him some weed? I'd say no. IF he was a decent guy, maybe I'd invite over for a sample but that's about it. Might even help him out...but if he started demanding weed I think I'd tell him to fuck off, wouldn't you?

For those people looking for "rich bastards" to hate on, research the Federal Reserve Bankers. You have my full blessing to hate on them.
 
JustAnotherFriedDay

JustAnotherFriedDay

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
While I think your heart is in the right place, I'd have to disagree with your assessment of limiting what a person can make. Government messing with the free market has always brought dire consequences. The amount a person makes would not change the fact that a forced government redistribution is still theft. The scale of earnings is irrelevant, if it's not yours, you have no claim on it. When we ask government to decide what the limits of a persons earnings should be where do we stop? What other things would you ask government to arbitrate?

The term "enabling" is one that I am familiar with and think is appropriate when one person receives the benefits without doing the work. If Bill Gates was forced to give away his money, what kind of message would that send to somebody that is simply hoping to win the Bill Gates lottery? Would they think that somebody else "owes" them a living? It is not Bill Gates responsibility to take care of anyone nor is it the responsibility of a government to use force to redistribute wealth, although they seem to think it is. With that said I think charity is noble, but to make somebody give up their earnings for another is wrong. Yes, sometimes I am envious of people that have more than me, but that only proves I'm human.

Put it another way...you just had a wonderful harvest of primo bud and the guy next door that is always mooching weed didn't do shit. Do you owe him some weed? I'd say no. IF he was a decent guy, maybe I'd invite over for a sample but that's about it. Might even help him out...but if he started demanding weed I think I'd tell him to fuck off, wouldn't you?

For those people looking for "rich bastards" to hate on, research the Federal Reserve Bankers. You have my full blessing to hate on them.
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I never said Bill Gates would be forced to give away his money. That should never happen. He's given away billions to charity.

I just think that some people make too much for the work that they do and others make too little for what they do.

Business owners would be better off paying their employees a percentage of revenue based off their performance and job title, especially if the owners net worth exceeds that of their entire staff put together.

America would be much better off if minimum wage was a % of company revenue...or for employees that get paid directly from the client a % should go to them...50% is a pretty solid number. maybe 60-70 for the veterans at the company.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
JustAnotherFriedDay said:
I never said Bill Gates would be forced to give away his money. That should never happen. He's given away billions to charity.

Thank you for the clarification.

I just think that some people make too much for the work that they do and others make too little for what they do.

Fair enough.

Business owners would be better off paying their employees a percentage of revenue based off their performance and job title, especially if the owners net worth exceeds that of their entire staff put together.

How would business owners be better off having an outside agent determining their wage structure? If that happened would they still really "own" the company if somebody else made their decisions?

America would be much better off if minimum wage was a % of company revenue...or for employees that get paid directly from the client a % should go to them...50% is a pretty solid number. maybe 60-70 for the veterans at the company.

Minimum wage as a percentage of revenue? So if the company makes more money, the employees make more money?
What happens if the company loses money? Do the employees then all pitch in and bail out the owner?
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Heads Up

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
Let's get some real life in this thread. Hating on rich people is so abstract, most of this discussion is based on bs. Most people do work for a living. There are not throngs of people sitting around waiting for a handout from the rich, that's just silly.

I've been at the same place for going on two and a half years. My boss is a republican. We all had to sign 1099 forms to work for the guy, that makes us independent contractors, he pays no taxes on us, yet he treats us as his employees. We don't bid on the work, he pays us all an hourly wage. He provides our tools and clothes. To sum it up, he is our employer. He wants all the benefits of having us as employees without any of the responsibility. He has no workman's comp insurance on us, he pays nothing into our social security and he also cheats the government out of their fair share.

I work five sometimes six days a week. I have missed a total of four days in over two years and have never taken a vacation. I also have not had a raise in over two years. I'm dependable, on time and I actually care about the quality of work I produce, yet a raise in nowhere in sight. Instead of a raise we get the line, you should be happy you have a job.

That's the real world of business.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Heads Up said:
Let's get some real life in this thread. Hating on rich people is so abstract, most of this discussion is based on bs. Most people do work for a living. There are not throngs of people sitting around waiting for a handout from the rich, that's just silly.

I've been at the same place for going on two and a half years. My boss is a republican. We all had to sign 1099 forms to work for the guy, that makes us independent contractors, he pays no taxes on us, yet he treats us as his employees. We don't bid on the work, he pays us all an hourly wage. He provides our tools and clothes. To sum it up, he is our employer. He wants all the benefits of having us as employees without any of the responsibility. He has no workman's comp insurance on us, he pays nothing into our social security and he also cheats the government out of their fair share.

I work five sometimes six days a week. I have missed a total of four days in over two years and have never taken a vacation. I also have not had a raise in over two years. I'm dependable, on time and I actually care about the quality of work I produce, yet a raise in nowhere in sight. Instead of a raise we get the line, you should be happy you have a job.

That's the real world of business.
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How does one cheat the government out of their fair share ? Who decides what the amount of a "fair share" is?

If a person decides that the amount isn't fair what recourse do they have?

How did any person become obligated to pay thier "fair share"? Was it a willful obligation, derived by mutual agreement or was it one placed on them without their input?


In your case, couldn't you get employment elsewhere if you are unhappy in yur present situation? Or perhaps you or a group of fellow workers could start your own business and compete with your former "employer".
 
Heads Up

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy. Ok then, how's this, he's cheating us. What is it with you guys who seem so dead set to make government the bad guy in all of this? I'm pretty sure you enjoy having roads, firefighters, police, parks and a host of other things that government does. Without government we would have anarchy. This is no longer 1786, whatever the founding fathers envisioned, much does not apply in today's society. Do you actually believe that one day they envisioned three hundred million people in america? Their america didn't even go west of the mississippi river. Folks like you try your best to apply yesteryears standards to today using the constitution as your weapon.

For me what it comes down to, folks like you whatever you're saying, to me it sounds like, I'm out for myself and I don't care about my fellow citizens. Sorry if that is an incorrect assessment, but that's all it sounds like to me.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
I demand the taxpayers money to be WELL SPENT.

That's all.

Obama = FAIL

Congress = FAIL

Think we're going to have a U shaped recession?

Uhh, no, thanks to Obama and Co. it will most probably be a W.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Heads Up said:
Let's get some real life in this thread. Hating on rich people is so abstract, most of this discussion is based on bs. Most people do work for a living. There are not throngs of people sitting around waiting for a handout from the rich, that's just silly.

I've been at the same place for going on two and a half years. My boss is a republican. We all had to sign 1099 forms to work for the guy, that makes us independent contractors, he pays no taxes on us, yet he treats us as his employees. We don't bid on the work, he pays us all an hourly wage. He provides our tools and clothes. To sum it up, he is our employer. He wants all the benefits of having us as employees without any of the responsibility. He has no workman's comp insurance on us, he pays nothing into our social security and he also cheats the government out of their fair share.

I work five sometimes six days a week. I have missed a total of four days in over two years and have never taken a vacation. I also have not had a raise in over two years. I'm dependable, on time and I actually care about the quality of work I produce, yet a raise in nowhere in sight. Instead of a raise we get the line, you should be happy you have a job.

That's the real world of business.
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First, what your boss is doing is illegal. Evidently Government controls don't work as well as you think do they.

Also, since you are a private contractor you can set up a business and claim all sorts of deductions - you should speak to an accountant. For instance, if you make your home your official place of business, you can pay for your car with pre-tax dollars.

I understand your ideas about fairness when it comes to income but what you really need to understand is that you just don't know much about the subject. I don't mean this as an insult - I mean it as a matter of putting things in prospective.

The people that you see as "making money off of money and do no good for anyone" actually do massive amounts of good for everyone - you simply don't understand how. Take Bill gates for example. Because of him, we all have user friendly PCs in our homes connected to an internet that has transformed life as we know it. The effect this has had on our economy is the creation of millions of jobs ranging from people working for Microsoft, to Intel, to the IT department of hospitals, to the local Best Buy store.

And the idea that a service person should make 50% of what they bring in is ludicrous. Are you telling me that if I invest 100K in a auto mechanics shop and I pay all the overhead and operational costs, I should give my mechanics 50% of the income they bring in? How on Earth do you figure that what they are bringing to the table is worth what I have brought to the table?

And what is wrong with two people sitting down and negotiating a fair employer, employee arrangement? You make it sound as if business owners draft their employees and give them no choice. Isn't that would be employee free to open up his own business if he can't find a suitable arrangement?

It sounds like you are under the impression that the Government pulls names from a hat each year and the lucky winner is given a business, and then that person just sits back and counts big piles of free money like Ebeneser Screwg and thinks of ways to cheat all their employees. That just isn't how things work.

And by the way one thing in closing. If you don't like the way your boss treats you, you are free to find another job. Or, you can start your own business and compete with him. Good luck.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Heads up ...

Rick is right ... your employer is breaking the law. As an independent contractor, your employer cannot require you to do anything. By this I mean, require you to attend meetings, what time to show up for work, what time to leave work or set your hours. You should turn this son-of-a-bitch in to the proper authorities. I'm sure the IRS would love to know his game. And by the way ... if there are monies owed to the IRS, you may be elgible for a 10% reward of all monies recovered. Same applies to the State Franchise Tax Board.
 
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