Legalization Predictions

LeeGullEyes

Member
I think that when Cali leegullizes in 2012 and they go from being broke to being the most prosperous state in the US other states will follow. Obama will change his policy [video=youtube;LvUziSfMwAw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvUziSfMwAw[/video]. I don't believe it will be leegull under federal law but I do believe The states will be given choice. Than the UN will change their policy (Only 2 countries not in the UN) and gods plant will be leegull worldwide!!

What do you think?
 

maariic

Active Member
I am not sure for any new details, bu what I heard this autumn is that Cali voted not to legalize. Why do you think that it will be done in 2012?
 

growone

Well-Known Member
many of us are still dealing with the the aftermath of prop 19, there's still a lot of disappointment with many grow site members
some momentum was lost with that vote, but it's possible that 2012 could be the year
money wise, well, there was an article in the cnn web page today called 'where are the mj millionaires'
was oriented towards the situation in Colorado where state regulations are really driving up costs
i guess it would depend a lot on the law passed, it would have to be a very strong protection for growers rights, otherwise state regulation will suck out the profits with thousands of fees, regulations, and taxes
 

LeeGullEyes

Member
I am not sure for any new details, bu what I heard this autumn is that Cali voted not to legalize. Why do you think that it will be done in 2012?
There is another vote in 2012 and it is during a presidential election. According to this article http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/visualizations/presidential-vs-mid-term-elections twice as many 18-29 year olds show up for presidential elections opposed to midterms. Polls show that the youth support legalization much more than older generations so the odds are much better.
 

maariic

Active Member
But don't you think those midterms will go to this vote specially to vote against mj? If they went last year then they will go next year as well. Or are you hoping that more of them will be passed away? :fire: I don't know what is the attitude in your nation, but in our country those people that I have spoken with - four from 5 will say that mj is the shortest way to other drugs. Our society isn't educated enough about pros and cons of mj. This is because objective researches are not shown globally. What are pros and cons of American society?
 

BoomBiddyBye

New Member
States are starting to decriminalize marijuana, and maybe in 2012, some states will even legalize it, but on a federal level, mj will never be legal, simply because of the money it would cost the government...

Giving compensation to all of the people who have been busted with some kush would cost billions of dollars... to think that every 14 seconds, an american is busted for weed, i don't think they would be willing to pay for this...

On a state level though, i think its fucking great! Maybe some states will wake up and realize that legalizing marijuana will bring their states billions of dollars every year, tax rates would drop, deaths from alcohol, and cigarette smoking might drop... so many positive things would happen... All we need is 1 state to legalize, and all the other states to follow :D
 

HuffPuppy

Member
Uh... why on earth would the government have to compensate anyone for being busted? They did something illegal when a law was in place. If its no longer illegal, then on your way. Its not its retroactive...
 

growone

Well-Known Member
Uh... why on earth would the government have to compensate anyone for being busted? They did something illegal when a law was in place. If its no longer illegal, then on your way. Its not its retroactive...
probably won't happen, probably, but the law can take strange twists and turns
someone could try to sue, which likely would be tossed out, but if such a case ever got to a jury
again, strange things happen in the courts(sometimes), but i think unlikely
 

Jankedyjoe

Active Member
The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. It was basicaly cutting out anyone who wasnt a massive cooperation. You needed a massively expensive permit, basically like liquor license. People want it legalized, not made into the new cigs. You know the second they get a chance, they will start adding addictive things and get it delegalized all over again once we all start getting cancer suddenly. Obviously, its because we didnt "test" mary jane enough. All the politicians would sit there with shit eating grins as we start dying left and right "we told you so, marijuana is bad news, m'kay!"

Don't give them the satisfaction of "being right" because the second we give them the chance, they will make themselves right, no matter what it takes. They know that if its legalized, it will cost them billions and billions of dollars. Not because they will have to pay people, which they wont, laws arnt passed retroactively, its because of hemp. Marijuana got a bad red so they could take hemp out. Hemp could straight up save the entire planet. Remove social barriers, bring everyone to an equal footing. Socialism is the greatest concept ever made, it was just brought around at the wrong time and implemented terribly. They never made a straight socialism setup. They always tainted it, and made everyone miserable, thats why it doesnt work. It will never work when they is a shortage of things. With hemp, we could feed the entire world, fuel the entire world, clothe the entire world and even house the entire world. All without breaking a sweat (comparatively). Everything would cost next to nothing. They grew 40 ft hemp trees that took about 3 years to get that big, in the 1700's! Thats a 40ft tree, that can do anything any other tree can do, besides look pretty as siding. Deforestation would stop, pollution would go WAY down, it burns like 40-60% cleaner than fossil fuels, also its in the top 5 plants for conversion of CO2 to O2, greenhouse effect, this ones aimed at you!

In the end, if someone found a MASSIVE deposit of diamonds, where they just grew by the feet per day (whether its possible or not isnt the point) it would drive the price of them way down. The prices are all determined by availability. When there is a shit ton of something thats completely renewable, prices go down. Nobody wants to spent $85 filling up there tank, when a better alternative is there for $5 to fill the tank. These prices would be stable since hemp grows so well everywhere. Send seeds to africa, they will gorw in there shit soil, then eventually make there shit soil better by penetrating and adding nitrogen to the soil. Eventually, they could grow good food in it.

In short, people pretend that legalizing mary jane will make tons of money. The gov knows thats not true. The prices now are not because its so difficult to produce, its because its so dangerous. Without the danger, the price drops and the availability goes up. They know no one will spend $80 on anything, no matter how good it is, when they can pop some seeds outside. Yes,it wouldnt be the same quality, but so cheap. Everything would be cheap, we could feed ourselves for next to nothing, building materials, next to nothing, everything would be next to nothing. It would only be practicle to go with a straight socialist economy at that point. There would be no real profit anywhere. No profit for single individuals that is. It could easily support the entire world, but single people wouldnt get rich, which is wha they want. They want to stay rich, they want to keep us down, they want to keep the social order. Hemp would destroy it all, but save us all at the very same time.
 

growone

Well-Known Member
The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. ....
it wasn't perfect, there were flaws, but that wasn't why it didn't pass
remember the turnout for the under 30 voters? i think it was around 10% - it was very low
so you had a much older voter turnout, which gave the predictable result
so maybe no steam lost, that's tough to judge, 2012(which is a presidential election year) will likely generate a much larger turnout, which could be a game changer
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
P19 was the most poorly written bill I've ever seen. I wonder if it was written for the benefit of trial lawyers? "Legalization" could mean many different things. I want a law that eliminates incarceration for users and growers.

Legalizing Cannabis won't generate money for the government unless it eliminates penalties for use.

The "justice" system views pot smokers as easy targets for fines and funding.

They'll fight tooth and nail to continue busting 'heads'.
 

boofin

Member
I think that the horizon looks good for the end of marijuana prohibition...

Although Prop 19 was shot down, Cali is learning from its mistakes and drafting a new bill with what they learned... They are taking in the opinions from growers, lawyers, police and everybody to draft something better for 2012... Oregon is collecting signatures for a vote for 2012, Washington is collecting signatures for a vote this year maybe!

There is a strong push in New England to overthrow marijuana prohibition also...

In addition to the states pushing, there are companies who are now publicly trading and collecting private financial interests and lobbying for the first time happened this last week on capitol hill. So there is now money, infastructure and public interest in making this happen. More than I have ever seen before... I dont know the future, but I know that it is up to all of us who would like to see the end of prohibition to do our part.

Unless Im wrong, these are the states currently pushing for a public vote for (or before) the 2012 election

Washington
Oregon
California
Rhode Island
Massachusetts
 

HuffPuppy

Member
The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. It was basicaly cutting out anyone who wasnt a massive cooperation. You needed a massively expensive permit, basically like liquor license. People want it legalized, not made into the new cigs. You know the second they get a chance, they will start adding addictive things and get it delegalized all over again once we all start getting cancer suddenly. Obviously, its because we didnt "test" mary jane enough. All the politicians would sit there with shit eating grins as we start dying left and right "we told you so, marijuana is bad news, m'kay!"

Don't give them the satisfaction of "being right" because the second we give them the chance, they will make themselves right, no matter what it takes. They know that if its legalized, it will cost them billions and billions of dollars. Not because they will have to pay people, which they wont, laws arnt passed retroactively, its because of hemp. Marijuana got a bad red so they could take hemp out. Hemp could straight up save the entire planet. Remove social barriers, bring everyone to an equal footing. Socialism is the greatest concept ever made, it was just brought around at the wrong time and implemented terribly. They never made a straight socialism setup. They always tainted it, and made everyone miserable, thats why it doesnt work. It will never work when they is a shortage of things. With hemp, we could feed the entire world, fuel the entire world, clothe the entire world and even house the entire world. All without breaking a sweat (comparatively). Everything would cost next to nothing. They grew 40 ft hemp trees that took about 3 years to get that big, in the 1700's! Thats a 40ft tree, that can do anything any other tree can do, besides look pretty as siding. Deforestation would stop, pollution would go WAY down, it burns like 40-60% cleaner than fossil fuels, also its in the top 5 plants for conversion of CO2 to O2, greenhouse effect, this ones aimed at you!

In the end, if someone found a MASSIVE deposit of diamonds, where they just grew by the feet per day (whether its possible or not isnt the point) it would drive the price of them way down. The prices are all determined by availability. When there is a shit ton of something thats completely renewable, prices go down. Nobody wants to spent $85 filling up there tank, when a better alternative is there for $5 to fill the tank. These prices would be stable since hemp grows so well everywhere. Send seeds to africa, they will gorw in there shit soil, then eventually make there shit soil better by penetrating and adding nitrogen to the soil. Eventually, they could grow good food in it.

In short, people pretend that legalizing mary jane will make tons of money. The gov knows thats not true. The prices now are not because its so difficult to produce, its because its so dangerous. Without the danger, the price drops and the availability goes up. They know no one will spend $80 on anything, no matter how good it is, when they can pop some seeds outside. Yes,it wouldnt be the same quality, but so cheap. Everything would be cheap, we could feed ourselves for next to nothing, building materials, next to nothing, everything would be next to nothing. It would only be practicle to go with a straight socialist economy at that point. There would be no real profit anywhere. No profit for single individuals that is. It could easily support the entire world, but single people wouldnt get rich, which is wha they want. They want to stay rich, they want to keep us down, they want to keep the social order. Hemp would destroy it all, but save us all at the very same time.
I'm with you on supply/demand vs. pricing but can you cite sources for your other points? I'd like to do some reading.
 

Jankedyjoe

Active Member
Okay, so finding deeper sources on the 40ft plant in 3 years has been tough. To be honest for that one, I read it on a "information you should spread" thread that was posted on here a while back, which im having a difficult time locating, because i cant remember how it was worded for the title. I looked really hard for it. What I did find though was a lot of info about 25ft marijuana plants. Strains like KBC Brain (the kbc part might be off, im gonna cite it so you can look into it).

This has stuff on the size of large marijuana plants. It says 18 feet, but I have read on here 25 feet is possible (but siting this place probably doesnt count). Hemp gets way bigger than marijuana, so breeding it right, for epic size, reaching 40 feet isnt very unpractical.

http://facts.randomhistory.com/2009/02/27_marijuana.html


This has a shit ton of info, which im pretty sure covers the rest of it.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-284.html
 

LeeGullEyes

Member
The law thatd didn't pass didnt hut anything steam wise. Nobody who read the law wanted it. It was basicaly cutting out anyone who wasnt a massive cooperation. You needed a massively expensive permit, basically like liquor license. People want it legalized, not made into the new cigs. You know the second they get a chance, they will start adding addictive things and get it delegalized all over again once we all start getting cancer suddenly. Obviously, its because we didnt "test" mary jane enough. All the politicians would sit there with shit eating grins as we start dying left and right "we told you so, marijuana is bad news, m'kay!"

Don't give them the satisfaction of "being right" because the second we give them the chance, they will make themselves right, no matter what it takes. They know that if its legalized, it will cost them billions and billions of dollars. Not because they will have to pay people, which they wont, laws arnt passed retroactively, its because of hemp. Marijuana got a bad red so they could take hemp out. Hemp could straight up save the entire planet. Remove social barriers, bring everyone to an equal footing. Socialism is the greatest concept ever made, it was just brought around at the wrong time and implemented terribly. They never made a straight socialism setup. They always tainted it, and made everyone miserable, thats why it doesnt work. It will never work when they is a shortage of things. With hemp, we could feed the entire world, fuel the entire world, clothe the entire world and even house the entire world. All without breaking a sweat (comparatively). Everything would cost next to nothing. They grew 40 ft hemp trees that took about 3 years to get that big, in the 1700's! Thats a 40ft tree, that can do anything any other tree can do, besides look pretty as siding. Deforestation would stop, pollution would go WAY down, it burns like 40-60% cleaner than fossil fuels, also its in the top 5 plants for conversion of CO2 to O2, greenhouse effect, this ones aimed at you!

In the end, if someone found a MASSIVE deposit of diamonds, where they just grew by the feet per day (whether its possible or not isnt the point) it would drive the price of them way down. The prices are all determined by availability. When there is a shit ton of something thats completely renewable, prices go down. Nobody wants to spent $85 filling up there tank, when a better alternative is there for $5 to fill the tank. These prices would be stable since hemp grows so well everywhere. Send seeds to africa, they will gorw in there shit soil, then eventually make there shit soil better by penetrating and adding nitrogen to the soil. Eventually, they could grow good food in it.

In short, people pretend that legalizing mary jane will make tons of money. The gov knows thats not true. The prices now are not because its so difficult to produce, its because its so dangerous. Without the danger, the price drops and the availability goes up. They know no one will spend $80 on anything, no matter how good it is, when they can pop some seeds outside. Yes,it wouldnt be the same quality, but so cheap. Everything would be cheap, we could feed ourselves for next to nothing, building materials, next to nothing, everything would be next to nothing. It would only be practicle to go with a straight socialist economy at that point. There would be no real profit anywhere. No profit for single individuals that is. It could easily support the entire world, but single people wouldnt get rich, which is wha they want. They want to stay rich, they want to keep us down, they want to keep the social order. Hemp would destroy it all, but save us all at the very same time.
If I'm not mistaken I believe your saying that the fact that legalization will drop the price of cannabis so much that no one will make money on it. This is completely untrue and entry level macroeconomics prove why. Price is not controlled firms, firms are controlled by price. Firms will simply increase quantity supplied making less money off more sales, hence keeping profit the same. Also there are thousands of products that you can plant, but people still pay for them. Why grow your own weed when you can pay ten dollars and get high for a week.

Also companies are not going to add anything to their product. Just because cigarettes are there to compare cannabis to, doesn't mean every comparison that you can make will come true. They are completely different drugs and the only thing they have in common is that they can both be smoked.

And socialism?? Really? Just because cannabis "could" provide next to nothing living conditions, doesn't mean it will meet the unlimited needs of billions of people, which is the ONLY time a socialistic society could work. Cannabis does not meet unlimited needs, it simply makes living cost less.

To meet unlimited needs, we would need something like a shrink/augmentation ray. You could buy a piece of bread and feed a village, by either making the bread huge or the people small, until the bread goes bad.
 

Jankedyjoe

Active Member
Where to start. Firstly, You wouldnt be growing "cannabis" to meet the "unlimited" needs, you would be growing hemp. Second, your right, people dont grow there own tomatoes always. Because when you grow a tomato plant, you get enough for maybe a month, and they go bad eventually, so you can even save them for very long. Cannabis on the other hand, you grow your own outside and if you pay it any real attention you are going to get enough to last several months, and it can be dried and saved. Most things that can be dried and saved, dont grow most places, cannabis on the other hand can grow pretty much anywhere, with varying levels of quality. Basically, you can produce plenty without a very large amount of work if its legal. You could even put a lot of work into it and produce even more and even better product. Not everyone would do this, but nobody and I mean nobody would ever pay $60 for a bag.

The would not add anything? We already add shit, they are just going to cut costs, and try and make more profit by trying to make it addictive. People smoked tobacco for many, many, many years without anywhere near the same level of issues we have. They put a lot of crap into tobacco. Little known fact: tobacco doesnt just come up with most of those things you hear as horror stories, they have to be there to get into them.

Back to the price and quantity. Look at corn, we could produce a lot more, and make it way cheaper. They force the price up, which doesnt mean it has to be there, it means they are making an active effort to go against potential. People are starving and we have no money. It hurts double paying to make less food. Hemp has even more potential than corn. Unless strict limitations are put in place to force price to remain high, availability and cost of production would make the price be horrible. Instead of trying to make sure its a money maker, make it gov run. Don't make it about profit, make it about keeping the people fed, clothed and the world a better place. Go in the sense of a park. Parks dont make money, they eat it, but they make people happy. They would not just increase supply to make the same proffit because there is a finit buyer base. Just having more product doesnt mean more money. Nobody has money these days to begin with. Making things cheaper would be great, and people could buy more but you have to make sure there is a demand, which would be easy to fill unlimited demand if allowed. As it is, we have this social stimga against it and would need to work on that already. People tote numbers like 40 billion around based on $60/8th. With legalization the price would fall dramatically. Demand wouldnt go up enough to make it back up to the 40 billion. There would obviously be money to be made, but not the wonder numbers people tote. In the end, its not about numbers though its about saving the world. Dropped prices would spread out the wealth more evenly.

The shrink/augmentation ray is here, hemp. It basically is a tree, but grows hundreds of times faster. Who needs to enlarge a loaf of bread 50 times when you can make 50 loafs? Hemp can meet the unlimited demand, but it takes a lot of work. You cant just grow 400 acres of hemp and put up a sign, expecting it to work out. You need to make it into another form. Make it into bread, but that takes time and money. The bread though, because just about anyone can do it would be very cheap. You just cant go into it hoping to make a ton of money. Money is made by limited resources. Hemp is effectively unlimited.

Socialism is the only basis it could truly work. With buisnesses competeing with eachother, nobody would want to do it in the end, unil only one big company remained, or maybe a few, but they would set the price. Hemp cant supply the world with every single thing, but the supplementation, along with the other things it cant would make a lot more people happy. Salt may stay the same, but when the food your using it on is pennies, it doesnt hurt as much.

Basically, your argument is "just because it can, doesnt mean it will", which really isnt arguing against me. My point is kinda that we have the chance to save everyone, but we wont take it because we are lazy pricks. It is there, it doesnt mean we will. The big issue is currently, we cant.
 

Jankedyjoe

Active Member
Also, to add the the idea of socialism. Straight socialism does have a way of making nobody want to be like a doctor. What this scenario would be, wouldn't be "everything for everyone", it would be "everything, everyone needs" Such as food, water and shelter. With a gov centralized food production based on hemp, we could make food free, but still have to pay for things like trampolines.
 

psychedelictripper

Well-Known Member
Unless Im wrong, these are the states currently pushing for a public vote for (or before) the 2012 election

Washington
Oregon
California
Rhode Island
Massachusetts
I wouldn't characterize Massachusetts as being a strong candidate because of the wishy-washy-ness of the bill(various) sponsors. You have the Rep. Story who is championed but I wonder if anyone has ever heard her talk about her outlook. She is strictly motivated by $$$, believing if they tax and regulate it people will be lining up around the block just to have the chance of paying $800 an ounce for schwag. The lawyer who drafted a bill talks more like a wanna be politician arguing only with "talking points". Then there's the medical issue. Ma is a free healthcare state, I wonder how that will work? There isn't one voice. Have signatures been collected for ballot access? Only the people can force this issue. if you wait around for the legislature it'll be the end of time. Until there is a common voice and plan I don't see much happening. If the proposed bill is written like the CA one (that might of been designed for failure )then it will be a waste of time. Again who in their right mind is going to pay the tax they want to place on it? They need to -tax from the debate. Less taxes not more, that is the problem.
 

LeeGullEyes

Member
Also, to add the the idea of socialism. Straight socialism does have a way of making nobody want to be like a doctor. What this scenario would be, wouldn't be "everything for everyone", it would be "everything, everyone needs" Such as food, water and shelter. With a gov centralized food production based on hemp, we could make food free, but still have to pay for things like trampolines.
Lol I was trying to think of something extrinsic Hemp can not provide but you nailed it. Ive been thinking a lot about your socialism proposal. Had America been brought up on Hemp, life would be unfathomably different. Since Americans have todays culture, I believe the transition to a culture surrounded by hemp will be turbulent. My reason is very complex and I will do my best to explain...

Basic necessities (food clothes shelter) are obtained at the same place trampolines exist; the free market. However hemp has proven to be a source of these basic necessities and this will be hard for people to accept considering the capitalist motives of anyone who needs a paycheck to support a family. Wal-Mart will not take lightly to the fact that people returned to living off the land. The money spent on the necessities represents what a capitalist society is.

However I believe there is great potential in this making America perfect in the eyes of today. Imagine a CEO who no longer cares how much money his firm generates because he does't worry about feeding his family. The result would be a market no longer motivated by profit. Companies would make products to make good products because the next meal is guaranteed, regardless of profits. Thus creating a whirlwind of competition which is what a capitalist society thrives on, all while not really being capitalist.
 
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