LED vs. HID side my side competition

Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
Just purchased a 500w Lighthouse Blackstar LED UV - Model. I already have a 1000W MH and a 1000W HPS. Just transplanted a bunch of seedlings (fem wonder woman and fem jock horror) over the past 2 days into 5gal buckets with holes for drainage. Split 2 of each under the LED last night, and 3 WW and 2 JH under the MH. Now it is off to the races to see what exactly the difference is b/t LED and HID with the other Variables being the same.

Here are the SPECS:
Soil grow: Happy frog, with dolo lime, wood ash, moisture crystals, mycor. granules, AP sand and hydroton for drainage.

Initial Nutes during transplant: Jack's Classic 20-20-20 (1/2 tsp (5ml) per gallon (3.8L)), 1 TBSP (15ML) molasses per 3.8L Gallon, a pinch of epsom salt per gal, and probably about an ounce of humic acid concentrate per gal. All in RO H2O .

All transplant holes dug were coated in rooting powder.

The lights: (Veg 18/6 - Flower 12/12)
LED:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-500w-Blackstar-LED-Grow-light-3w-Flowering-LEDs-/270658750599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0484c887

MH: 1000W MH, Base up with a 48" reflector.

HPS: 1000W HPS, Horiztonal in a glass protected Hydrofarm hood, with an 8" exhaust fan.

Avg Running Temp in veg room with lights on: 80 deg. F (LEDS are not in veg room therefore they are running around 70 deg F)

Lights off: 65 deg for both.

Pics of each in next posts:clap:
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
Team HID: 3 Wonder Women (1 got transplanted way before the others and is much larger, so I may dq her for these purposes) and 2 jock horrors. Currently under 1000W MH.
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ganjaluvr

ganjaluvr

Well-Known Member
It's a cool experiment.

But when it comes down to the facts.. HID puts out more lumens than the L.E.D.

MH/HPS = more lumens = bigger buds

But, I'll be watching this as well. Just curious to see the results..

peace.
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
We'll see, HID also puts out a lot of wasted lumens. If I am going to spend 1000W watts, I want it as targeted as possible. I may not get as many buds per plant, but my real goal is to see if I can get more plants per watt (which will take a lot more LEDs than I have now) to counter that. My ultimate goal is to have 4 240w LED set up, and have at least 16 plants under there, and bring them to optimal yield. I wouldn't put more than 9 plants under the same about of wattage of HID. See where I am going? I know you can have 4 separate 250W HPS/MH as well, but I just think that is a pain in the ass. So more than anything, it's a proof of theory experiment. This is just to get a gauge of what the yield difference is off of each system exactly.
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
Hudsonvalley82 said:
Just purchased a 500w Lighthouse Blackstar LED UV - Model. I already have a 1000W MH and a 1000W HPS. Just transplanted a bunch of seedlings (fem wonder woman and fem jock horror) over the past 2 days into 5gal buckets with holes for drainage. Split 2 of each under the LED last night, and 3 WW and 2 JH under the MH. Now it is off to the races to see what exactly the difference is b/t LED and HID with the other Variables being the same.

Here are the SPECS:
Soil grow: Happy frog, with dolo lime, wood ash, moisture crystals, mycor. granules, AP sand and hydroton for drainage.

Initial Nutes during transplant: Jack's Classic 20-20-20 (1/2 tsp (5ml) per gallon (3.8L)), 1 TBSP (15ML) molasses per 3.8L Gallon, a pinch of epsom salt per gal, and probably about an ounce of humic acid concentrate per gal. All in RO H2O .

All transplant holes dug were coated in rooting powder.

The lights: (Veg 18/6 - Flower 12/12)
LED:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-500w-Blackstar-LED-Grow-light-3w-Flowering-LEDs-/270658750599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0484c887

MH: 1000W MH, Base up with a 48" reflector.

HPS: 1000W HPS, Horiztonal in a glass protected Hydrofarm hood, with an 8" exhaust fan.

Avg Running Temp in veg room with lights on: 80 deg. F (LEDS are not in veg room therefore they are running around 70 deg F)

Lights off: 65 deg for both.

Pics of each in next posts:clap:
Click to expand...
$549 for a 500w Cree 3w LED, not possible... I think that Blackstar may have fleeced you a bit here bro! Check out digikey and see for yourself, 3w cree bulbs are minimum $4.50 each wholesale. This means that they gave you $800 worth of leds mounted and powered them for $549. My guess is that Lighthouse is just another Chinese importer trying to make a quick buck. Should be interesting though comparing this light against a 1000W.
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
168 3w cree LEDs, 549 bucks. He purchases them in HUGE quantities (he must have been sitting on several hundred thousand individual LEDs worth of light), sends the LED's to china, has someone slap them together for cheap and ships them back. A three watt led at that quantity can be more than a buck with the proper driver and shit. That leaves over 300$ for everything else, assembly, shipping and profit.
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
ganjaluvr said:
It's a cool experiment.

But when it comes down to the facts.. HID puts out more lumens than the L.E.D.

MH/HPS = more lumens = bigger buds

But, I'll be watching this as well. Just curious to see the results..

peace.
Click to expand...
"LEDs produce light in bandwidths that plants use, and as a result measuring or comparing light intensity in lumens or lux is not a fair comparison. If measring in PAR or PFD (measuring light required for photosynthesis rather than just visible light) LED lighting can be extremely intense." Eric Biksa
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
Hudsonvalley82 said:
we'll see, theres a long term price tag too
Click to expand...
100 bucks a pop for a MH or HPS every six months. No worries for 5 years or so if ever with the LEDs. The initial expense will find its way back into your pocket. IMO though Stealthgrow has the best to offer at the time. 2 watters in a few different configurations that you can tailor with the turn of a knob, cool shit. They sell them as fast as they get them.
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I see the LED haters are getting on board early... To the OP, ignore them and grow a thick skin.... EVERY such thread I have EVER seen in these forums that have LED in the title end up being jacked by haters that could care less if your LEDs will succeed or not. You'll have people claiming that LED lights suck, though they have never owned one. They'll claim that the wasted power on unused light is easily recovered with an incresed HID yield that is then sold on the street to cover the bigger power consumption. They'll question your intelligence, sometimes in not so subtle ways....

I personally believe that the technology for comparable or better LED grows is already here, but the expense keeps most from experiencing it. Good luck to you on your grows. I personally hope that the LED side wins.
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Thats why I have both HID and LED side by side. Im trying to play to all sides here and get a good discourse that includes both sides (a nice jab every now and then is awesome too) This indeed is a competition, haters of LED and HID are all welcome, just the same as supporters. With electricity prices on the rise (at least by me) I thought it was time to bring this to a head!

Serapis said:
I see the LED haters are getting on board early... To the OP, ignore them and grow a thick skin.... EVERY such thread I have EVER seen in these forums that have LED in the title end up being jacked by haters that could care less if your LEDs will succeed or not. You'll have people claiming that LED lights suck, though they have never owned one. They'll claim that the wasted power on unused light is easily recovered with an incresed HID yield that is then sold on the street to cover the bigger power consumption. They'll question your intelligence, sometimes in not so subtle ways....

I personally believe that the technology for comparable or better LED grows is already here, but the expense keeps most from experiencing it. Good luck to you on your grows. I personally hope that the LED side wins.
Click to expand...
 
ledbudguy

ledbudguy

New Member
ganjaluvr said:
It's a cool experiment.

But when it comes down to the facts.. HID puts out more lumens than the L.E.D.

MH/HPS = more lumens = bigger buds

But, I'll be watching this as well. Just curious to see the results..

peace.
Click to expand...
Luminous flux is merely how the human eye measures visible light. It has no relevance when it comes to what is usable by the plant. The 120,000 lumens output by a 1000w HID in comparison to the 23000 lumens emitted by an average LED fixture breaks down like this;

1) 120,000 x .05 (5% usable light in HID) = 6000 usable lumens
2) 23,000 x 1.00 (100% usable light in LED) = 23,000 usable lumens

The issue with LED has always been the intensity of the spectrum emitted, not the amount of absorbable light. By using a 3w or higher powered diode the required penetration is attainable to produce dense bud.

I have watched the LED race closely for about 3 years now... LEDs will win eventually and they are getting really close now. Just remember that there are many different grades out there, most of which are garbage produced in china!
 
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