LED Grow Lighting Rated for Damp or Wet Location?

Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Until you come out of hiding I hope no one helps you find the answer to something that can be found from the state directly and/or in their regs.

I ran into someone at the max yield show with a similar story to yours. "Orsram oslon has a 300lm/w coming out". He was from some company claims to use all osrams, yet wouldn't give a name. Same BS you and romes187 have put out.

An example of my skepticism...Cree just broke 303lm/w...yet we haven't even seen or heard about the chip that they broke 270lm/w with last year...we still only see the XTE's, XML's, COB's. So why would someone have access to an something even better, when the old but if true, would be the the best, isn't out yet???
So I question even if osram makes it...will said company ever see it???

And not that I don't believe it(kind of don't)...but 300lm/w is over 90% efficiency. Pure blue's aren't even that efficient and they are the base for whites.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
True GG........we haven't even seen a cree mk-r grow panel yet and they came out some time ago...........

Their still in legal/pre production yet claim "game changer"? Surely they've done some beta runs and can show us some pics of the crop weights/not their prototypes if that's a problem:-P

Bizarre asking coverage area per light in commercial operations......pretty basic stuff no?
 
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FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Now now GG, don't just dive in for the kill by your lonesome, let others come in and circle round a bit and take a few nibbles before we get down to "our thing". ;)

From an oldie but goodie.
http://www.ledlightingexplained.com/led-lighting-myths/#myth3

"Many manufacturers test their LED chips on lab benches at room temperature with short pulses that produce a high efficacy that cannot be achieved in practical use. While these results are not incorrect, they do not reflect the typical expected output of LED sources integrated into lighting fixtures. Although percentages vary, it is not uncommon to see efficacy losses of up to 40%.
Reputable LED fixture manufacturers do not base lumen measurements on the test results of their LED source suppliers. Instead, they use independent, third-party testing labs to measure and validate the output of their lighting fixtures according to test conditions spelled out in the LM-79 standard, published in 2008 by the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America (IES)."

So yeah some ridiculous numbers can be hit in the right circumstances. Oh and I read on candlepower or LEDs Mag that it takes CREE about 2 to 2.5 years to get a product out from lab to peeps so.....
 
Mohican

Mohican

Well-Known Member
Testing at these levels usually includes vacuum chambers, hot/cold chambers, overcurrent exposure, physical exposure, noise emittance (and reception), stray light frequencies (laser, UV, IR, X-ray)...

I would love to see a Cree testing video :)
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
OsramLEDMan said:
Hi PSUAGRO

Thanks for the post - as soon as legal clears the docs I will. Believe me - I really want to disclose more and anticipate being able to do so shortly. I do have a general question for those in the know - as we figure out production runs what would be the average sq foot coverage requirements for a greenhouse in Colorado or Washington, and roughly how many of those larger opportunities currently exist. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. I am unable to send PMs as of yet however snaps provolone has my co- workers contact information.

Thank you for the reply and in advance for your support.
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The potential is extraordinary. Key word is potential.

Thus far we have been confronted with several issues.

1) Lack of proven track record in the commercial growing industry
2) Very high cost per sq ft
3) Poor manufacturer support
4) Lack of product availability
5) Shorter than expected lifespan
6) Thermal radiation is greater than some manufacturers like to admit
7) Lack of 277v operation
8. Damp location ratings
9. Near instantaneous obselescence.

Presently there aren't enough advantages to outweigh these cons. It would be a hard sell to convince facilities with 400 - 800 existing 1kW HID lights to buy three times as many of these replacement fixtures at three times the unit cost.

To date, we have not been impressed by the LED grow light industry as it applies to the commercial cultivation of marijuana. We remain optimistic that with the spread of legalization we shall see more serious investment by lighting manufacturers.
 
nevergoodenuf

nevergoodenuf

Well-Known Member
Next week I'm ordering 3-10 of these

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/content/leds/en/ugc/iif/2014/04/14/semlight-launched-the-latest-cob-led-flood-light.html
in the 200w unit with 4 COBs in all 3 color temps. They Bridgelux chips (110-130lm/w), but not chipsets,they set them to COB. I haven't found anything close for the money that let's me have all 3 color temps in one unit. It should also have a great light to use as an outdoor flood light. I'm still waiting on what certs. it has. With the Bridgelux chips and meanwell drivers, they have a 3 year warranty. I would only have to send back what's broken and not the whole unit.
My cost on the first order shipped is under $500 each, and if shipped by ship, should be $50 to $90 less. Yes this is still very expensive, but on par or less on cost, has better lm/w than most grow lights on the market. I've used the Sol9 with great result on the plants I didn't screw up. And I doubt the is over 80lm/w.
 
chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
SnapsProvolone said:
The potential is extraordinary. Key word is potential.

Thus far we have been confronted with several issues.

1) Lack of proven track record in the commercial growing industry
2) Very high cost per sq ft
3) Poor manufacturer support
4) Lack of product availability
5) Shorter than expected lifespan
6) Thermal radiation is greater than some manufacturers like to admit
7) Lack of 277v operation
8. Damp location ratings
9. Near instantaneous obselescence.

Presently there aren't enough advantages to outweigh these cons. It would be a hard sell to convince facilities with 400 - 800 existing 1kW HID lights to buy three times as many of these replacement fixtures at three times the unit cost.

To date, we have not been impressed by the LED grow light industry as it applies to the commercial cultivation of marijuana. We remain optimistic that with the spread of legalization we shall see more serious investment by lighting manufacturers.
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This should be required reading by every Chinese SSL manufacturer who wishes to sell us their 'latest and greatest'.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Eraserhead said:
2000 lamps, you can get something 100% custom made. Really, if the mind can imagine it, it can be made, and cost a fraction of retail.

I get lights made at 250-500 lamps at a time... really, for something that big, build it according to exactly what it needs to be. It's not that hard ;)

Don't buy anything ready-made.
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This, from the owner of A51 lighting?!

I'm having some similar issues, we should talk.
 
CanadianONE

CanadianONE

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
If I understand correctly class B refers to residential NOT commercial as the OP is looking for.

Class B Digital Device. “A digital device that is marketed for use in a residential environment notwithstanding use in commercial, business and industrial environments. Examples of such devices included, but are not limited to, personal computers, calculators, and similar electronics devices that are marketed for use by the general public.

Still don't know how they are getting any fcc damp-location approval with active cooling......:confused:
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FCC compliance only deals with electromagnetic interference.
 
4

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
SnapsProvolone said:
The potential is extraordinary. Key word is potential.

Thus far we have been confronted with several issues.

1) Lack of proven track record in the commercial growing industry
2) Very high cost per sq ft
3) Poor manufacturer support
4) Lack of product availability
5) Shorter than expected lifespan
6) Thermal radiation is greater than some manufacturers like to admit
7) Lack of 277v operation
8. Damp location ratings
9. Near instantaneous obselescence.

Presently there aren't enough advantages to outweigh these cons. It would be a hard sell to convince facilities with 400 - 800 existing 1kW HID lights to buy three times as many of these replacement fixtures at three times the unit cost.

To date, we have not been impressed by the LED grow light industry as it applies to the commercial cultivation of marijuana. We remain optimistic that with the spread of legalization we shall see more serious investment by lighting manufacturers.
Click to expand...
You can design or avoid all of those specs and get the best lighting if you have someone builds your crees. Use the CXA 3590 with the lens. Waterproof the lens and the driver. Boom someone is in serious business for a long time. AND if the growing industry does not work out the lights are easily sellable to get a return.

If I had the ability to buy 2000 lights I wouldn't be buying 2000 lights. I'm going with eraserhead, have it built.
 
CanadianONE

CanadianONE

Well-Known Member
4ftRoots said:
You can design or avoid all of those specs and get the best lighting if you have someone builds your crees. Use the CXA 3590 with the lens. Waterproof the lens and the driver. Boom someone is in serious business for a long time. AND if the growing industry does not work out the lights are easily sellable to get a return.

If I had the ability to buy 2000 lights I wouldn't be buying 2000 lights. I'm going with eraserhead, have it built.
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Possibly not worth having it built depending on the cost for certification. Regardless if there purchased or built the inspectors will want to see proper certification on the fixtures.
 
4

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
CanadianONE said:
Possibly not worth having it built depending on the cost for certification. Regardless if there purchased or built the inspectors will want to see proper certification on the fixtures.
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I feel like getting the certification for one light would be easier and cheaper. I think sellers markup for consumers because of certifications, And times that by 2000. If they wanted to switch to led then making a nice simple design would be the best way to go. But if they like hps then I say go for it man.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
Doesn't this thing have the certification the OP was looking for?

https://www.spectrumkingled.com/
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That light is one of the biggest jokes on these forums. What a complete piece of over priced out dated crap. The maker of those lights came on these forums and made a real fool of himself trying to tell us that COB's are junk and throwing all types of claims around. Pretty sure he got banned and the thread deleted.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
chazbolin said:
If you're asking if I think there are going to be options in the future for third party testing and listings of fan cooled LED panels for greenhouse environments I think not. Look at the Lumigrow site and tell me if there is anywhere on there that they meet with the UL and NEC requirements for design,specifying and marking these lights so that the end user and the building inspector can see that they are recognized for damp location? These guys know they can't get that rating or they would already have it. What are their options? To make passively cooled light bars like Phillips and Illumitex does that they can get IP65 or better ratings on. Yet they continue to aggressively market these lights, with 'state of the art' knobs that adjust spectrum, and miss the fundamental responsibility they have to the consumer.

http://www.lumigrow.com/products/pro-series-greenhouse-lights/

You're right. The demand for third party damp location rated, lower wattage, long life, spectrally stable, better area coverage, controllable, affordable lights that deliver supplement light levels to greenhouse plants is there. Perhaps you take Eraserheads advice and go get them custom made,tested and certified. But aside from the time and expense of you doing that, don't you think companies like LG would have already done so? If they had it would be splashed all over their spec sheets.


Why put it on hold? If you need 2000 lights IP65 certified lights now IG has them in stock and you'll pick up a $350 + per light rebate with Xcel Energy in CO.

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/index.cfm?re=0&ee=0&spv=0&st=0&srp=1&state=CO

View attachment 3002402
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Do you have any photo's showing what a 2000 light IG Greenhouse installation would look like?
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
LED Light...
"CSA listed for damp locations"

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... It's not specifically a grow light, but I have grown under one, and currently use it for vegging teens. Does very well in veg, seemed weak in flower (did not run all the way through with it, so I can't say for sure). Relatively inexpensive...
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Humanrob said:
LED Light...
"CSA listed for damp locations"

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... It's not specifically a grow light, but I have grown under one, and currently use it for vegging teens. Does very well in veg, seemed weak in flower (did not run all the way through with it, so I can't say for sure). Relatively inexpensive...
Click to expand...
I believe that thing is no more efficient than a 100W metal halide.
100 HPS would probably clobber it.
But I bet it does veg well
 
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