LED Companies w/ LINKS

Yeah fran, I don't know much about these lights. I just saw the link in another thread, checked out the website, and posted the info they gave me in response to an email I sent them. +1 for at least responding within a day. They make some bold claims and at least attempt to back it up with science which is more than most companies offer. How trustworthy are their claims and how factual is their research, fuck if I know! Would like to see someone test out one of their lights.

Exactly Puff, if they work and as long as they're not baby raping Nazis, I'll buy em!

The way I see things about blue leds .....


Of course plants do need blue photons ...
But ....
Blue photons are way "powerful" ...

Blue light ,at general ,affects living cells ,in an "negative" way...
It causes water molecules to vibrate ,causes DNA mutations ,generates free radical oxygen roots ,destroys cell & nucleous walls ( membranes ),etc ...

Well ....At least higher plant cells (and whole organisms ),have developed a really good "defence " system ,against short wavelength E/M radiation ...
At sea level that short wavelength radiation ,from natural sunlight ,begins somewhere around ~280 nm (UV B ) ...


Still ,those short wavelegths of light ..particles ... ,disperse pretty much ,passing through different layers of Earth's atmosphere ....

Dispersion of blue light .....

For me ,that's the main issue ,a led designer ,has to deal with ,regarding blue light ....

( Power levels :
Trust me ...
It goes like this ,simplyfied ...

Much " blue " ? { >5-8% of total flux } ....
-Open stomata
-Low PS rates
-Short internodal distance /low streching or not at all .
-Dense branching
-high nutrient content (anti-oxidants )
-High quality yield (terpenes/aroma /taste )
-LOW yields
-High phototropism
-Low Nitrogen assimilation
....
That's what I can come up with ,right now .... )

Back to dispersion ...

Leds and their conical shaped light output .......
Dispersion ...

How to do it ,with few powerful blue leds ,to cover a surface ( relatively small/restricted )
and still do not have negative impact on plants ....?

Might be worth , to "sacrifice " a bit of efficiency ,in order to get more dispersion ?
Anyways ,thin film die tech and CLC ( Chip Level Conversion ) ,offer really low efficiency losses ,in todays phosphor covered blue dies ....

So ,might be worth (always regarding a small area and not bedding green leafies as cultivated plants ... ) instead of using
few blue leds ,to use more numbers (more expensive-more heat issues -size ,thus weight issues -driving -etc) of whites ?

Moreover using whites ,as a bonus multispectral bands ,are introduced ...

Forget that myth ,that there are wls that plants do not use ...
Not in the region 300-740 nm,at least ...
Above ~750 ,yes ,plants do reflect all wls ,at >70% ...
<= light power reflectance from several different species and specimens of higher plants ...
....Violet wls are more reflected that green ones ,inside the visible range of PAR
...But to our vision ,green light ..dominates ...


And further more
Relative (PS ) quantum yield of different wls ...

After photon absorption occurs ...
How many moles of glucose are produced per certain amount of photons absorbed ....
1 is max efficiency / quantum yield .....

So ...First measure how many photons are per given power of given wl ...


Then ,what is their absorption percentage ..


(-How many of them are harvested from chloroplasts per time unit ..
At certain PS operation frequency ...~4Hz ....)

And then ..Through RQE ,how many of them are turned into ....biomass (matter )

Green Range PS RQE : min =0.71 , max =0.99
Red range PS RQE : min =0.61 , max =1
Blue range RQE : min =0.66 , max = 0.76 ...

Green/yellow photons at average ,produce more biomass than blue ones ..
Taking into account : total power of both ranges at nat .sunlight , thus total photon number of each range ,
dispersion of range and absorption percentages of each range ....And finally their RQE ....

In plants grown under natural sunlight ,might even be surpassing the red range,at certain cases ....
Might be the most productive PS ' photon pool' range ,actually ....
...
But not something to mimic ,utilising leds .....
Unless total flux approaches that of nat. sunlight levels ....

*PS= ' Photosynthesis '

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Whites ....

Not a simple "topic" at all .....

Anyway ....

I'll give some "food " for thought ...
I do not want to be "tiring " or "boring " ,cause of long posts ....

Imagine this :

A led panel .
Say it has
-40 x Red leds at 620-640 nm ( output 400mW = 20x 400 = 16 Watt of red 620-640 nm )
-40 x Red leds at 640-660 nm ( output 400mW = 20x 400 = 16 Watt of red 640-660 nm)
-6 x Blue leds (440-460 nm range ) ( output 500mW = 20x 400 = 3 Watt of blue )

( Blue : ~8.5 % Red : ~91.5 % )


Think of how to place the blue leds on the panel ,to get best power dispersion and coverage at same time ....


Now ...Blues go away .. ...

Panel now has
-40 x Red leds at 620-640 nm ( output 400mW = 20x 400 = 16 Watt of red 620-640 nm )
-40 x Red leds at 640-660 nm ( output 400mW = 20x 400 = 16 Watt of red 640-660 nm)
- 25 x CW 6500°K leds ( output 400mW = 25x 400 = 10 Watt of CW light ..With ~28-30% blue in it ....Blue = ~3 Watt ...)

Yeah ...but ...

Now there's 19 more leds used,than instead of 6 blues ....
Yes ,but how about dispersion ?

And ...
CW 6500°K leds used at second case ...
Offer also ....-
Green (500 &#8211; 599nm) :46%
-Red (600 &#8211; 699nm):24%
-Far Red (700 &#8211; 750nm): 2%

24% of 10 Watts is 2.4 Watts ...
Hmm ...
Does that means that we can take off some red leds ...?
6 of them ?
Which they are going to be removed ,depends on which red wls ,CW has ...
So ...Minus 6x 620-640 ?

Difference went to 13 leds ...

..
How about if instead of CW ,NW were used ....?

Whoa..Wait a min ...
What about WW ?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Those are rebranded from cidly. I've talked to those guys already. Every single light they carry is from cidly. They used to carry the bysen helios under their name but its not on their site anymore. You can get 2 of the same lights from cidly for the price of one of growblu's. You can choose your own spectrum. Growblu boast how their proprietary spectrum beats all others. Imo the ratios they use are redundant. why have IR leds when there is already whites with IR. why have orange and blue leds when you have whites already too.

If going with those lights I would get the Aquarium apollo lights from cidly. Then you can run more whites. They use 1450 mA drivers on those and run the whites and blues to 1420mA (high but not completely maxed out). Have 12 leds per module instead of 15. So swap out the blues for 630's and 660's and they will be driven a little softer and little less watts. There you go.

I've seen growblu's videos on you tube also the ledgrowshow............ ehhhh

Sorry peeps! totally had a brain fart then.....Is this the place to post links to companys and not get told off for trying to make a sale on? Im only a humble tester, been testing two different types of lights with bespoken parts. Got a third mixed array one coming soon to test.. Heres the Link, he can ship to the usa or anywhere in 7 days. www.LedHydroponics.co.uk

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ bysen made

hyroot said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ bysen made

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Yes you are absolutely Right Sir! But....out of all the thousands of inferior quality parts china has to offer this company actually has his own team where he travels to (he loves staying in china) and selects the best hardware for inside. all the way down to the fans, that's why there is a 5 year warranty on his stuff, if something does go wrong, he ships the part you need as soon as you inform him, this company isn't a small one, main custom is on the commercial market, this is an extension of his main company as he loves growing! that's his passion. Im a computer hardware engineer by trade and have stripped this light down to check components and he does use really good hardware, contact alibaba, bysen or whoever and hae a chat with their engineers about him, they're no nasty secrets here peeps! He's a goldmine for GOOD tech so my test is to see if his products actually work better then others as I do own a few more LED's from different suppliers, tested them all, now testing the newer tech. So please don't take me the wrong way. Im NOT pushing sales. I couldn't anyway, not doing some grows aswell at the same time eh? Im just trying to filter out the good from the bad, and so far, LEDhydroponics is a good one. Peace All.

Yes and some people also have a budget. And I went to cidly's site. There's no links to even buy one.

Yeah I totally understand they are expensive compared to HPS but I just cant use HPS where I am, too much heat, electricity, etc... so what you pay for at the beginning you get back in the long run, both my light suck about 400W total, my pc has a bigger PSU then that a massive 800W to drive my fans, cpu and gpu. My pc is sucking in more Watts then both my lights. Plus all of 3 of my kids and my wife has pc's and laptops, so my LEDs go un noticed.

So emailed Area51 about there new lights and when this month they will be introducing them and this is what I got in response.

I have some pics Jeff sent but he asked me not to share them. Sorry (good thing I re-read I had them uploaded and ready to post on here)(Don't wanna be "That Guy")

We should be able to reveal the new light before the month is over, and then be able to ship them to customers starting on April 9th.
We should have had them already, but we had some major issues with Fero in Canada, a former distributor, and we needed to eliminate any future issues, and that is what the hold up has been.

I can show you the prototype version, it is the same as the actual version, except the actual version will have a nice matte silver finish rather the dark gray primer color, and our logo will be cut out in the venting, plus info stickers, it'll look a lot nicer.

Please do not share these images on any forums.

Best Regards,
Jeff

ooo they sound worth a look just by the name! Area 51 cool, link?

Just looked at them, another company popped up shipping straight from Hong Kong, no wonder they had trouble with Fero, these dudes don't like people treading on their toes. Or selling similar lights that they do, doesn't anyone realise, ALL of these lights come from china one way or another? The trick is too look for the company with the longest Reputation and Warrantys. You just don't know what youre getting 'inside' the box anyway, Theres a lot of new technology coming out involving Pulse Modulation Technology driving the LED's to their brightest without affecting lifespan or degradation, plus the correct spectrum, that's the key. Apart from the modulation tech (which IS patented by it inventors and isn't copied) everything is just copied from one place or another. Except when you actually know what you are looking for when it comes to top quality power drivers, led's, domes, magnigication lenses etc..... the list goes on and on. I just enjoy testing for different suppliers to prove if they've the right pulses and spectrums. I've got my own spectrum coming out soon and ill test them in the newer DMA LED's. Im not interested in a new company getting sales, im interested in proving these work and to give other people correct information without being biased to one company.

If anyone wants to see the new A51 light, you can send an email and you can see a pic, just as long as you're not from China. They'll copy the look of the light and try to sell a low quality low bin, non-Cree (maybe faux Cree) version. They've been pretty sneaky trying to get info on it, that's why there aren't any pics or much info online yet.

It is mostly true that most LED lights come from China, not all though. The new A51 light is partially from China, the case and heat sinks are. Drivers and LEDs are not. The LEDs are from Mouser (Cree XPG and XPE). Final assembly is done is the US. And ships from the US.

Yeah all from china tho mate, sorry and secretive? ohh k ---> http://shop.area51lighting.com/ plus heres a pic ----> Yeah very secretive aint they?? NEXT...... oh and no offense mate but WTF is that film all about??? EraserHead? lol One Freaky Film indeed

Wheres the Warranty info? wheres the correct spectrums? they saying you can choose? ok ill choose to build my own light then for that price,,,,,, no wonder people on sites like this get confused, OK Area 51, ufo over a light to me and ill test it and journal it for you, how about that? I pick my own spectrum tho. Oh free of charge aswell please for my services. My other ones are free BTW. Purely tester ---> NOT SALESMAN.

That light is Chinese. We do buy our own LED diodes though for these from Heliopto (not Chinese, they're Taiwanese). They are significantly more efficient than the low bin LEDs from places like Cidly. We can actually show datasheets for these.

http://heliopto.com/files/HELIXEON_Color3W 2012_06 DS-02-09-07.pdf
http://heliopto.com/files/HELIXEON_White 3W 2012_06 DS-12-09-07.pdf

roguetrooper said:

Yeah all from china tho mate, sorry and secretive? ohh k ---> http://shop.area51lighting.com/ plus heres a pic ---->

Yeah very secretive aint they?? NEXT...... oh and no offense mate but WTF is that film all about??? EraserHead? lol One Freaky Film indeed

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roguetrooper said:

Wheres the Warranty info? wheres the correct spectrums? they saying you can choose? ok ill choose to build my own light then for that price,,,,,, no wonder people on sites like this get confused, OK Area 51, ufo over a light to me and ill test it and journal it for you, how about that? I pick my own spectrum tho. Oh free of charge aswell please for my services. My other ones are free BTW. Purely tester ---> NOT SALESMAN.

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We're offering the ability to choose your own spectrum, so customers can choose from veg or flowering spectrum, and we're trying to get rid of our 2012 inventory of Heliopto LEDs and case housing. There's only a couple of whites to choose from and a red, and very few cases remaining.

Our website is old and we're making a new one right now for the new light, we'll be launching it fairly soon.

We have a lifetime warranty. The warranty info is shown, well, on the warranty page.
http://shop.area51lighting.com/content/7-warranty-info

Yeah, Eraserhead is quite the strange movie. Seen it more than 100 times and I still do not know what it is about.

[video=youtube;dU7OqGCIcak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7OqGCIcak[/video]

yeah cheers for the reply but a 'limited lifetime warranty' isn't a lifetime warranty, be careful trading in the UK and Europe stating those claims, we are protected by trading standard laws here. Tawian? Chine? Sri Lanka, Malaysia, yeah my mate (whos the owner of the LED company I get my lights to test from) travels all over, he's got his own test team in Sri Lanka and China, HIS OWN. he pays them a years wage and chooses the components himself. Bespoken, im sorry, anyone can claim that the LED's are theres, you havnt got any patented parts inside just for you to use? any pulse modulation tech patented to you then? Tell you what , send me a 270W 6 POD light and ill show you its no different to what I can order from Taiwan or china whatever for a $100. Unless you want to post pictures of your internals, fans etc.... Balls in your court my friend. Oh yeah I agree with ya on that one, eraserhead is indeed a masterpiece because of its weirdness, but film critic im not, LED tester and designer I am.

One more point is how bad those things are made to take apart?, strip one to find out. Loads of Allen keys holding the modules and front plate on. Then you take the cover plate off from the LED and all the lenses fallout. Then there is the ABSOLUTELY terrible heat transfer paste, poor china Taiwan etc.. cant match us for Heat transfer solutions. Apart from all that, they aint bad lights to test, heres a pic of mine to prove im right......plus I added my own two spectrum modules in the middle, pure 660nm. Worked a treat, accelerated the one on the left to finish loads faster then was expected, so sorry mate, your lights aren't new tech.....ive had these ones a year now and they were the first,. Before Craplys (sorry) Cidlys Appollo range, and yes all the insides of that unit is patented by its inventor so no copying, naughty naughty, they work but still a nightmare to strip.

The warranty is spelled out pretty clearly. It's not in any way a bumper to bumper lifetime warranty. It's prorated based on how old it is. After the initial free parts replacement period, the parts are really cheap and we'll pay the shipping.

We do not have a 6 pod 270w light. We had a 6 pod light, we got the cases from a metal shop in China and the heat sinks came from the same place. As for it costing $100, no. Not including shipping or storage fees, they cost us about $175 each. Shipping is way too high, almost the same as the price of the light itself, which is why we're stopping shipping from China as soon as these last 3 units are gone.

Storage is a little much too considering I can store them here for about the same and by doing that we're saving ourselves a ton on shipping directly from the US.

Some of the internals of the light are similar to other lights, depending on what they choose to put in them, the main part we do different is the LED diodes. There is a huge difference between faux Episatar and Bridgelux and real Heliopto, and the price reflects on that too. Per every 100 Umol'/s you get from a fake Epistar or Bridgelux, the Heliopto will make 150 Umol'/s, if not more. Even real Epistar's aren't that great, which is why I do not use them. I do not mind paying extra for quality parts. Watt for watt, almost no 2 LEDs are the same. And a big thing people forget to consider is binning, and also how hard the LEDs are driven. The harder they're driven, the shorter they last and the less efficient they are.

roguetrooper said:

yeah cheers for the reply but a 'limited lifetime warranty' isn't a lifetime warranty, be careful trading in the UK and Europe stating those claims, we are protected by trading standard laws here. Tawian? Chine? Sri Lanka, Malaysia, yeah my mate (whos the owner of the LED company I get my lights to test from) travels all over, he's got his own test team in Sri Lanka and China, HIS OWN. he pays them a years wage and chooses the components himself. Bespoken, im sorry, anyone can claim that the LED's are theres, you havnt got any patented parts inside just for you to use? any pulse modulation tech patented to you then? Tell you what , send me a 270W 6 POD light and ill show you its no different to what I can order from Taiwan or china whatever for a $100. Unless you want to post pictures of your internals, fans etc.... Balls in your court my friend. Oh yeah I agree with ya on that one, eraserhead is indeed a masterpiece because of its weirdness, but film critic im not, LED tester and designer I am.

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